Should you feel guilty for eating meat?

[Dascylus]

If we're not supposed to eat meat then why is the pig such a tasty animal?

For those of you who may notice how long my posts can get I assure that that is the long version...

Short answer... No.

(Mid Post edit... I seem to be going on a tangent again. I'll forgive you for not reading on from here)

I mean seriously, I've lived with vegetarians most of my life and there is no argument that has swayed me... EVER.
Their argument has persuaded me to choose my meat more carefully though. Finer cuts and better fed animals from local producers.

Try this one people, take a large roast chicken and place upon a plate, sit opposite a fellow meat eater and have an unspoken rule that you will divide it equally but if a breast/leg/wing is left too long then it is up for grabs. If anyone leaves the table they give up all rights to the flesh.
Now try with ribs, a pile of steaks or any other meat source. Try it with more friends...

Now try it with a pile of apples... Sure fruit is awesome too but it's just not the same.

We are all animals and we should remember it.

 

[jboking]

Oh please, are you actually trying to say that you can't state which life is more valuable than others? Bacteria are living, tiny organisms that you're killing probably millions of a day. I'm pretty sure that most people would make a distinction between that and an animal dying.

I'm not interested in 'most people', I'm interested in the moral argument at hand. We can't avoid killing Bacteria. We can avoid killing animals and plants. Also, a life is a life, no matter who is experiencing it.

Also, pain and suffering doesn't have solely to do with how painful your death is. Plenty of these animals are kept in confined areas and pumped with hormones for their entire lives. If you've ever owned a pet imagine them being in situations like that. Pigs are pretty intelligent animals, so you've got something around the same level of intelligence as a dog or cat being kept in conditions like that for their entire lives.

Alright, so if they enforced proper living conditions and a painless way to kill animals. If the FDA did regular inspections of farmlands and slaughterhouses, then it would be okay to kill millions of animals when we don't have to?

I eat meat. We raise and keep animals. We hunt. We kill animals for their meat. It's very natural, and the animals live good, comfy lives by all accounts.

In Vitro Meat is, in short, a horrible abomination. Well beyond the fact that it's a bit too costly, I think it's a complete and utter idiocy. It's a new dimension in overcomplicating things, and I have severe issues with it. I like Tofu or other "ersatz" sources of good nutrients, but In Vitro Meat is even more bollocks than, say, Quorn, which consumes way too much power to basically just grow mold in vats. With lifestock, you have living creatures around you that open your horizon to other ways of living, other ways of perceiving things. In the meat industry, I think it's important to have someone like Temple Grandin around, and people are becoming aware of how certain things are inacceptable and suck beyond all the nasty and gory descriptions.

I think what is most important in this chapter of your argument is this: In Vitro Meat is not, it's declared concept is that it would be this and that. I personally think it's a complete waste of everything, and an unnatural abomination.

You don't exactly explain why it is a horrible abomination to avoid killing millions of animals. You say it is too costly, but as technology advances, old technology becomes cheaper. Give it time. They've already shown that it can be done, all we need is to wait.

 

[jboking]

Not quite, though that would obviously be more ideal than a painful method of slaughter. It isn't just the killing floors that bother me, but the whole farming process from beginning (beginning with artificial insemination and the culling of male infants) to the end. In fairness to farmers, many already try to make the whole process as painless as possible. But even if we managed to create a perfectly painless method of farming, it doesn't solve another problem I haven't even brought up yet.

This essentially can be filed under the 'if we find a painless method' for me. It evolves into 'if we regulate farming more heavily,' but the end is ultimately the same.

The other (bigger?) problem comes with breeding animals to die in the first place. It is no less than ruthless exploitation, and anyone who eats meat is complicit in this exploitation. Had it been inflicted on humans, we'd immediately see how this is wrong. I don't place plants in the same strata as animals, but I do place animals in a similar strata to humans, or at least, similar enough to make me feel guilty about putting animals in that situation.

I can understand your personal guilt, and I share it too. I would even be willing to say that I feel worse about eating meat than I do about eating plants, due to the conditions they are put in prior to their deaths. I still feel bad about eating plants, though. I find it silly that we must consume life to continue it when the consuming of life isn't necessary (in this case).

This was a nice conversation. Thank you for it.

 

[Khazoth]

I sat down with my dog and had a long, hard discussion on the nature of humanity, and eating meat.


We came to the conclusion that no, we don't feel guilty. My dog then went off on this tangent about making a tennis ball made entirely out of sirloin and I had to cut her off. She's kindof derpy like that.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Eating meat is part of human evolution. I care more about the condition of stock yards and slaughter houses for both the animals and the workers. I also despise the jugernaut that is the meatpacking trust, but I don't think this is the place for a rant about how the meat in fast food resturants is cleaner than super market meat and that kind of stuff.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Oh please, are you actually trying to say that you can't state which life is more valuable than others? Bacteria are living, tiny organisms that you're killing probably millions of a day. I'm pretty sure that most people would make a distinction between that and an animal dying.

I'm not interested in 'most people', I'm interested in the moral argument at hand. We can't avoid killing Bacteria. We can avoid killing animals and plants. Also, a life is a life, no matter who is experiencing it.

Not true, you can make sure you don't use antibacterial hand soap, you can stay still and motionless for as long as possible. It would be completely possible for us to change society to minimize the death of bacteria. However that would be stupid because all life isn't equal.

For that matter, I don't know if life means what you seem to think it does. Life is a definition that people made up to classify objects in the world. The term applies to organisms that have the following qualities:
Homeostasis
Organization
Metabolism
Growth
Adaptation
Responds to stimuli
Reproduction

Life on its own is just a self replicating series of chemical reactions that have all of those qualities. Simple forms of life like bacteria are actually within our realm of understanding to see all of the reactions at work. If you believe that everything has souls then there's still no reason why beings we decide are living would be any more likely to have those than organisms just before the cutoff point like viruses or for that matter other inanimate objects.

What IS important, at least by my standards, are thinking organisms that are self aware. This usually requires a brain. Since plants don't have brains, and are not capable of being self aware by any indication I've seen, I do not give them a moment's consideration over the lives of humans and animals.

Also, pain and suffering doesn't have solely to do with how painful your death is. Plenty of these animals are kept in confined areas and pumped with hormones for their entire lives. If you've ever owned a pet imagine them being in situations like that. Pigs are pretty intelligent animals, so you've got something around the same level of intelligence as a dog or cat being kept in conditions like that for their entire lives.

Alright, so if they enforced proper living conditions and a painless way to kill animals. If the FDA did regular inspections of farmlands and slaughterhouses, then it would be okay to kill millions of animals when we don't have to?

Okay? Perhaps. Better? Certainly. Although, from what I hear deaths are already rather quick and painless, at least more so than most other causes of death they would have naturally.

And I agree that we don't need to kill millions of animals. I said as much in my earlier posts, there's no necessity for us to do it despite what many people are claiming in this thread. Saying so is a poor argument

 

[solemnwar]

I think I love you.

*blush* N'aaw, thank-you

 

[SteewpidZombie]

I grew up on a farm here in Canada, and eating meat is something I don't feel bad about. When we killed animals for food, we did it quickly and as painlessly as possible, it wasn't a matter of causing them pain or enjoyment of their torture but rather a job to be done for food.

I don't feel guilty about eating animals, and I don't feel guilty about butchering them. But I still despise anyone who would torture or abuse animals that live or grow-up in a slaughterhouse or breeding farm.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

You don't exactly explain why it is a horrible abomination to avoid killing millions of animals. You say it is too costly, but as technology advances, old technology becomes cheaper. Give it time. They've already shown that it can be done, all we need is to wait.

No, as I feel, perceive and think... let me rephrase that: No, since I consider the very concept to be inherently wrong, futile and misguided.

I want my meat coming from animals that led happy lives with as little stress as possible. I want my steak, my bacon, my grilled/chopped/minced/marinated meat to come from animals that lived, were born, pranced around, grew up in as normal an environment as possible.

If you think vat-grown food is the future, hey, presto, you're my futurist astronaut scientist of choice, and you'll certainly get my vote to be blown into space to found that new colony once we all realize that this planet, this solar system won't last forever, no matter what we do or don't do. See, not only our own personal insignificant lives come with an end, an expiry date beyond the flesh, also that blue marble we're stranded on, this very paradise we're allowed to inhabit comes with a very harsh ending; the moment the oceans start to boil we're pretty much all dead and gone anyway, no matter if we fought CO2 or other windmills. The moment the sun blows up, it will swallow us whole, with everything we've come up with in thousands of years of human ingenuity; it will destroy millions of years of evolution, and it will burn everything to a crisp, from maggot to cockroach to Rottweiler to human, only to leave this planet a bleak and desolate marble looking pretty much like that sorry sod of a moon we lug around to some extent.

If we, as bearers of exceptional brains, could stop our religious and political squabbles and niggles and nagging and mass-murdering, we could maybe find ways of really coming up with an Ark of sorts and populate other places, places that we, by the power of everything we've figured out so far, could make come to life and settle in it, starting anew as we're bound to do, allowing ourselves to come to terms that this solar system will end, like every other solar system before and after it.

But we limit ourselves to fighting ourselves, incessantly coming up with bullshit ideas of making all our lives harder, harsher and more useless. Currently, my bet is on not making it off this planet anyway, so I think it's of prime importance to live a decent life and make sense of everything life has got to offer, with causing as little tension within the species as possible; we seem to be a minority. Amoebas and ants seem to have more productive social ties and a better idea of what the purpose of a common effort is than us. I think that's sad, and growing mold or meat in vats is not part of any solution, it's ludicrous and mad.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Nope. We shouldn't. We have canines for a reason - eating meat. We're also omnivorous for a reason - eating produce AND meat.

Besides, unless I've sadistically killed the poor bunny rabbit by grinding its face against a stone then boiling it alive, I'd only feel guilty for a second because I love meat.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

Nothing wrong with eating meat. I hunt and fish every opportunity I get so in a way I feel as if I have a deeper and more profound respect for the animals I hunt. Does that mean I am against buying it in the store? No. I often buy steaks from the store but I always have something I got as a side and for really special dinners I try to get local seasonings to go along with the wild game (morel mushrooms, watercress, wild rice etc.). I also make sure I can use everything I can off of the animals I kill. Very little goes to waste, the hides go to the local native tribes (Ho Chunk mainly) and they make them into gloves, bags, and traditional clothing and the extra meat either gets frozen or donated to food pantry's.

In what other country do the homeless have the opportunity to get prime cuts of venison and game birds like pheasant and grouse?

Its important to note that I only donate to food pantry's where people are actively trying to get jobs. Some people need help while others don't need another crutch to lean on (IMHO).

I would also like to point out that hunting has nothing to do with finding pleasure in killing. I still find that difficult. It has much more to do with providing low cost food along with wildlife management. Look up CWD in Wisconsin or watch the documentary "Pig Bomb" and you'll understand why its so important why hunting is so important in the U.S.

I also do a lot of volunteer work with the DNR in my state and with Pheasants Forever & Ducks Unlimited. They basically help set up habitats and educate people on how to responsibly harvest said animals.

Did you know that a percentage of every hunting gun purchase goes to set up wildlife preserves to help ensure a steady recharge of the population every year? That has done more to bring back the deer population in the state of Wisconsin in the last 3 years than PETA has done in 20.

Chronic Wasting Disease info
http://www.cwd-info.org/

Wild/Feral pigs
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/publ/wlnotebook/pig.htm|

I'm not saying that EVERYONE should hunt, or eat meat. That's as stupid as wanting to force everyone to eat vegetables. Nobody can win those arguments. Eating plants and or animals is an act of nature and a fact of life and chances are nobody is going to convince anybody else of their views because very few are willing to examine both sides of the argument. All I'm doing here is explaining why, and how I eat meat and why its so important to me, and my culture as a whole.

That's because PETA a terrible animal rights group. They do more euthanizing of animals than saving them.

 

[Adventurer2626]

Bottom line: Don't feel guilty about survival. If meat is the only way to get protein, etc. then go for it! As for should I will not tell you. You will tell you what you should do. That's the beauty of being a grown-up; you don't have to do what adults tell you to do anymore. Unless they have a badge. Or a loaded gun.

If you feel that killing and eating animals is wrong then boycott meat. If you really don't see the big deal then go enjoy that turkey sammich or cheeseburger. But I will not tell you what to believe, just what I believe. You get to decide. Life is a choose your own adventure.

Nutrition-wise if you wanna get around meat I'd find out what meat gives you and find out specifically which fruits/veggies/grains contain those nutrients. I don't yet trust our synthetic stuff just yet. Maybe for your children or grandchildren. Too many carcinogens in many processed foods for me *as I take a swig of diet soda* But seriously though. If you can avoid chemicals go for the fresh grown stuff. Just check for the worms and the expiration date. Non-preserved stuff doesn't last long.

 

[Particulate]

I raise my own goats and chickens expressly to eat them. They are not pets.

 

[The Human Torch]

Delicious, delicious guilt... *drool*

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

I shouldn't, and I don't, and there's nothing you can say to make me feel otherwise. It provides vital nutrients and tastes good with a little seasoning, too.

Is being cruel to an animal before they become meat wrong? Yeah, it is. It's not its fault it was born to have a meeting with an axe; the least you could do is be nice to it until then. But that's not what you asked.

 

[Flutterbrave]

I actually wish I didn't eat meat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some "Animal Liberation" nutjob or PETA member. I support vivisection and animal experimentation - done a bit of that myself in labs, although I usually used yeast cells.

But the fact remains that we don't need meat to survive. I am against animal cruelty in all its forms - I don't support recreational hunting (although I have no problem with hunters who hunt for food), I don't support bullfighting and I generally despise anyone who would hurt an animal for fun.

I don't need to eat pork to live a healthy life. Contrary to what the meat industry says, you don't need meat to live. We do need protein, but we don't need nearly as much as we eat and there are sources of protein other than meat. I'm a medical student, and I have more than one science degree - I've done my nutrition, I know how to read journal papers, I know how to do proper research and the evidence is clear: We don't need to eat meat. In fact, we should eat a hell of a lot less meat. A little bit of meat every now and then isn't harmful for us, but the amount of red meat we consume in the West is VERY unhealthy. If you are going to eat meat, the evidence is clear - less is better, and white meat or fish is preferable.

Given that we don't need to eat meat, can we justify killing animals? I can justify killing them for research purposes - human lives are more important than animal lives. We are the scientists. We are the mathematicians. We are the musicians and the engineers and the architects and the philosophers. Show me a dog that can write a symphony. Show me a crab that can comprehend trigonometry. Show me a bear that can understand the process of nuclear fusion that occurs in a star. You can't. No animal, other than humans, can do or comprehend these things. We create order and beauty and form ideals. Animals cannot do that, or at least, cannot do it to nearly the same complexity. This debate we're having right now about guilt - no animal other than humans is even remotely capable of it. A bear doesn't even know the concept of "rights", a frog doesn't understand ethics or "values". Only humans do. Thus, we're more important.

But that doesn't mean animals should have NO rights. Although they are far less intelligent than us, they still have some intelligence. Dogs can learn words. Birds can memorize feeding locations. Dolphins can play. They're less intelligent than humans but that doesn't mean they have no intelligence. So while I might be able to justify killing them in pursuit of knowledge and medical applications, can I justify turning them into food?

They can also feel pain. Stick a fork into almost any live animal, and it will react to that fork.

Killing an animal for meat is not the same thing as killing a human being. Eating meat shouldn't be a moral crime on par with murder. And I eat meat. I just finished a dish consisting primarily of fish. Do I feel guilty? Well.... a little bit? I do realize that the fish I ate was as dumb as a sack of bricks. Have you see a fish? They are mindbogglingly stupid. Their brains are tiny and primitive.... but if I didn't need to kill it... should I have? If I didn't need to eat it, should I have just let it live? I am gravitating towards vegetarianism... simply because from my medical studies I know that I don't HAVE to eat meat and I don't like seeing animals die.

This.

This, so hard.

 

[Ed Classified]

I have never really cared about the animals we use for meat, I like meat and I don't feel guilty about eating it. That being said I couldn't kill an animal myself to eat it, but when the meat is processed and everything it's so far removed from the actual animal that I don't even think about it.

 

[greatcheezer2021]

well we're made of meat and we're not eating one another. (not in that way)

so who do we blame for making all the other tasty animals entirely of meat? hell even fish have more meat on them than some land critters. should we protest that predator always eats prey?

should we also touch upon the fact bone marrow is not tasty but has nutrients a plenty?

and when you say meat, does that include the organs? they are meaty, just heartier hahaha.

 

[Soods]

I'd feel quilty if I ate meat. I feel bad when my family eats it. But in my opinion the guilt-level depends on multiple factors. (Source, species etc).
And if you can't think of any reasons to feel guilty:
1. Feeding the animals takes a lot of resources. (This atleast applies to cows & pigs).
2. Eating certain types of meat can be unhealthy.
3. It's very hard to extract meat from the victim without killing the victim in the process.

 

[Aprilgold]

Unless the animal is literally dying of extinction solely because were eating it then no. With the changes to the meat industry coming in waves upon waves of awesome such as actually giving the animals a nice meadow to wonder before hitting them once in a specific spot. The fact that growth hormones and tons of corn are going out of their meals and come in more balanced and nutritious meals.

Honestly, were starting to get to the point where were taking more care for the animals we care then what natures has in store for them. Some specific vegetarians I met [I was one for a month before learning about open-ranging. I know I know lacking dedication and shit] believed that we should let all the animals that we are going to eat should be let into the wild. Thats right, you see that bovine there with her little calf happily and safely wander the meadows? Well lets throw them both into the wild where they can be eaten alive by carnivores such as wolves. They were so much happier literally being eaten alive then living a fun and safe life in the field before a quick execution.

I'm just going to respond to the title...

Er... We're omnivores, meaning we're destined to eat meat. And some other stuff.

We shouldn't feel guilty, the set of teeth we have are meant for plants and meat.

Edit: Okay, I read the OP and the only thing that I'm interested in was the second last paragraph.

We shouldn't eat meat because it involves killing living things? What if I ate an apple? I'm essentially murdering unborn apple trees.

That being said, the only meat I like eating is sea foods. Yes, believe it or not I hate bacon. Come at me(?)

No bro, I will not come at you, instead I shall hug you so hard because we are fish food buddies.