Should you feel guilty for eating meat?

[Ickorus]

The way I see it, we don't have enough space on this planet to produce enough farmland to feed our entire population and besides that farmland absolutely decimates the eco-system of the land it's on.

To properly answer your question, no, we shouldn't feel guilty about eating meat.

Sometimes I feel a little bad about my eating habits but then I remember I'm not prey.

Decimate means to kill one tenth. It does not mean to destroy.
This public service announcement has been brought to you by Dimitriov.


Sorry, but I had to. Misuse of that word is a major pet peeve of mine.

Fixed, thanks for the tip, I don't like using words incorrectly.

Sometimes I feel a little bad about my eating habits but then I remember I'm not prey.

Ughhh.. where did you get this idea that you are not prey?

It's a joke and a reference*.

Also being at the top of the food chain with no natural predators means that by definition we aren't prey.

[small]* Something Nighteyes (A wolf) says in The Farseer Trilogy.[/small]

 

[LeeArac]

I'd like to applaud Al Baker for one of the most cogent and well-thought-out responses to this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I /love/ my meat, and I couldn't give it up, but I don't let that sway me to thinking that there's really any way at all that it's ethically 'correct' to do so when it would be quite possible for me to get a complete diet from things that don't result in the taking of animal life.

Is it akin to murder? No. I wouldn't even say it's a particularly egregious transgression, but by no means can I convince myself it's ethically sound when I clearly have other options.

 

[teqrevisited]

We're smarter than them and they taste nice. That's all the justification I need.

I'm glad you feel this way.. See, I belong to an Alien consortium that favors lesser-species across the galaxy as a delicacy. This includes humans. Anyway, the problem is we also believe in some level of sovereignty, and we disallow the eating of species who do not willingly submit to it, or do not believe in it themselves.

So, I am very pleased once again to hear your acknowledgement that you believe in this philosophy. I therefore sign you up as a willing participant in being eaten alive testicles first. As soon as your life-contract reaches it's stated expiration date, you will be whisked away. You are not as smart as the beings who consume you. You understand.

Try it, Xeno. We've got Will Smith. Also, on the subject of food, he does actually come complete with a metric ton of cheese.

 

[samaugsch]

Hah. I wouldn't feel guilty going cannibal. >

 

[Atmos Duality]

I feel as guilty as I do eating plants.

Life organizes and re-oranizes matter for its own ends. Even at the bottom of the food chain, there is always something consuming something else or jockeying for access to basic foodstuffs (in the case of plants, there is still competition).

Knowing that, feeling guilty about eating ANYTHING doesn't make any sense to me, barring personal attachment to the would-be food.

 

[TheKaduflyerSystem]

I wouldn't feel guilty because it is for my own survival. I'm not saying I wouldn't hesitate when told to kill the household dog, but my survival comes above most emotions in all but a few situations.
That said, I am a bit of a prick...

 

[nexus]

Prey species have eyes on the sides of their heads, granting a wide range of vision to spot potential predators to escape from them.

Predator species have eyes on the front of their heads, granting depth perception to judge the distance from potential prey.

Guess which category humans fall into.

But you don't have 360° vision, you can only see on a limited spectrum as well. If you're such a predator, why do you require so much sleep, and why is it you are so easily hypnotized? You can be turned on or off with a switch.

You are prey, I'm sorry. You will still be eaten so long as you hold the philosophy that it's okay to eat lesser species yourselves. Until you start respecting the sovereignty of life, that's just the way it is, so sorry. Earth has always been a food-farm. Humans really are so gullible, and your basic consciousness can be transferred at any time, with it being designed to accept it's new host unquestionably.

You are harvested when you are "sleeping", only to "wake up" in your new host on another food-farm planet. You wake up and wonder why your head and neck are sore. Instead of questioning anything, or wondering what that "dream" was really about, you go back to your daily routine to continue exercising the parts of yourself that were programmed. Some species enjoy eating fat humans, others enjoy eating those "full of life and determination". It's not only about meat, but also the cosmic satiation of consuming those who think they are free and innocent. The biggest human delicacy at this moment is hypocrisy, there is nothing sweeter. This is why on many food-factory planets, we run the "War, Religion and Fascism" program. Ever "wake up" to a news story that "couldn't be real"? Well, you feel this way because it isn't real, then you accept it. This is the moment when your life becomes sweet to eat.

 

[bauke67]

We probably should all feel guilty since we are killing things, not for our survival(which, I just realised, is arguably the same thing), but simply because we like the way it tastes.
I'm not going to change this habit though, and it isn't likely that a majority of the other people will.

 

[Living_Brain]

Plants are also alive. Don't feel guilty. You are meant to eat animals.

I've got to ask, by whom do you think he's meant to?

Just the way the world is. Humans have the intellect to be the superior species, and therefore at the top of the food chain. Below us are animals. Animals give nutrition. We eat animals.

Just noticed the post above me. And it's true!

That's a fairly narrow minded view of the world. I know I'm capable of over powering most people I know because I'm in better physical shape, but I know better then to believe that gives me the right to beat them up and take there stuff.
In reality you don't feel you're able to eat animals because you think they're beneath you but rather because you're lucky enough to live in a society, the vast majority of which will not look down on you for it.
Just something to think about.

So are you omnivorous or vegetarian?

 

[Shadowsetzer]

I like meat and I have canine teeth. If I wasn't supposed to eat meat, I wouldn't have the appropriate teeth. If you don't like eating meat/animal byproducts/whatever, more power to you, but don't expect me to understand.

Capcha - English muffin. Forget that, gimme my bacon.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

So glad to be part of a race that determines their morals by how science books classify their species. How is saying you're an omnivore any sort of excuse? You don't die without meat, that's just the way your species evolved in an environment where non-meat sources of protein were not as available.

Also, saying you like meat too much is really not a reason for whether or not you should feel guilty about eating meat. It's immoral or it isn't, how much you enjoy something doesn't really change that. If you enjoy going on murderous rampages (not equating the two) no one's going to say that you shouldn't feel bad about it because you were having fun.

Those are two very good arguments and they are raised against what I feel are the weakest arguments for meat eating. Now here is the counter argument I raise against the vegitarians who bring those counter arguments up.

What will a cow do if I don't eat it, it will walk around and eat grass until it either dies slowly and painfully from natural causes or being eaten by a predator. What will a cow do if I do eat it, It will walk around and eat grass till it is killed very quickly and efficiently by a butcher and then eaten by a predator. Animals don't really have leisure activities because they are too busy running from predators and trying to find food. Any domestic animal we have created also could not survive in the wild and would be easy food for predators, resulting in a very short live.

Animals who are raised for food live a either similar, as good or better as they would in the wild. yea a cow could live up to 40 years but gets put to the slaughter at age 11, but they would have bloody good luck if they lived to 40 in the wild. So why is it worse for us to eat them then something else.

I have absolutely no problem with that if the cow actually has a respectable quality of life before it dies. Factory farming (however much of an issue it actually is, the fact that it exists bothers me immensely) I don't approve of at all. The conditions they're put in and quality of life they are given is completely horrible. They don't need to be pampered, but their entire life shouldn't be preparing them for the slaughter in the most cost effective way.

But I agree with you, if all meat came from sources like what you describe I'd have no problem with the production of meat. I'm not against eating meat, considering I do it myself, but I am against bad arguments, especially if they're on my side.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

No. Morals are a human invention, and dictate interactions between humans. Their purpose in any society is to allow people to live together, and cooperate as harmoniously as possible. They are effectively the spoken and unspoken consensus of the group developed over time.

Therefore I can see no way for it to be inherently immoral to eat meat. Eating humans could be immoral, eating other people's animals could be immoral, and certain practices of raising and treating animals could even be immoral.

But animals are not humans and do not have morals: therefore, it cannot be immoral to eat meat.


That's my philosophy anyway, and I have yet to hear anyone convincingly refute it.

So you believe that anything can be done to animals without any moral recourse? Including torturing for amusement? And this also applies to all animals as well, including the ones coming closer to human intelligence like chimps and dolphins? If you answer no to any of those, than your definition of morality is flawed.

 

[Brutal Peanut]

It's really up to you to come up with your own conclusions about your diet and how you plan to live.

I have a hard time eating meats because I don't want to support unsavory ranching and meat processing practices. I don't really eat cheese either, but that's not because of morality concerns. Also, where I live, it's hard to find 'organic/free-range' meats and restaurants seem to refuse to cater to different diet choices - with one veggie item that is usually a salad - with a huge handful of cheese on it and of course chicken *raspberry* =]p.

I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying it's wrong for others to consume meat, but if animal cruelty (filthy unsanitary environments for both the animals and meat processing, super tiny cages, no access ever to the out-doors or fresh air, steroid-abuse, unhealthy unnatural animal feeding methods, etc) is something that bothers you or you can't get out of your mind - you should look into the companies/brands you buy from. Also look into local farming/ranches - where you can go and see how they raise and handle their animals/by-products and if everything seems reasonable: buy directly from the source or remember to buy that brand the next time you plan to food-shop.

I agree it does sound like some work, but it's something you'll definitely find enlightening.

 

[kickassfrog]

Sometimes I feel bad for the animals, but then I console myself that everything dies in the end anyway, and I want people to get some use out of my corpse when I'm done with it. (As an organ donor, but if anyone feels a bit peckish, tuck in).

Now to see if a cannibalism joke gets past the mods.

Also if the animal got a decent lifestyle beforehand, i.e. free range, then I'm fine with it.

 

[Ampersand]

Plants are also alive. Don't feel guilty. You are meant to eat animals.

I've got to ask, by whom do you think he's meant to?

Just the way the world is. Humans have the intellect to be the superior species, and therefore at the top of the food chain. Below us are animals. Animals give nutrition. We eat animals.

Just noticed the post above me. And it's true!

That's a fairly narrow minded view of the world. I know I'm capable of over powering most people I know because I'm in better physical shape, but I know better then to believe that gives me the right to beat them up and take there stuff.
In reality you don't feel you're able to eat animals because you think they're beneath you but rather because you're lucky enough to live in a society, the vast majority of which will not look down on you for it.
Just something to think about.

So are you omnivorous or vegetarian?

I am a vegetarian, always have been = ). I was never suggesting that you or anyone else for that matter should adopt my lifestyle by the way. I just like to talk about it.

 

[dalek sec]

Take my spuds, take my corn
Take me where I cannot farm
I don't care, I'm still free
You can't take the steak from me

Take me out to the grill
Tell 'em I will have my fill
Burn the leaks and boil the peas
You can't take the steak from me

There's no place I can be
Since I found that bovine meat
But you can't take the steak from me

Spoiler

I like meat, don't feel bad. Eat more.

Alright, that's it! Shut down the thread, we have a winner!

OT: Pretty much this, I don't feel a bit of guilt when I eat meat. I never have, I never will and you can't take my steak away from me!

 

[Lugbzurg]

"Aww, come on, Aang! Everything here eats meat. Even the meat!"
-Sokka

"Needs Must"
-Captcha

 

[O maestre]

there are so many wrongs in this world, but meat eating is not one of them, yes an ethical treatment of our food might be preferable, but it is so far down my moral priorities that i am not even sure it is there. with all the suffering that humans go through, from starvation, violence and violations the pain of something destined to be consumed barely registers.

i still dont understand how there still exists starvation on this planet given the over abundance of food

I think it's just a tad ironic that you mentioned human starvation as a more important issue. The meat industry is an enormous waste of water, grain and other resources that could be used to feed the entire human population many times over. Instead, these resources are wasted on the luxury of meat for us living in the western world.

Secondly, I don't really understand you're "let's deprioritize animal welfare because there are still many humans suffering"-argument. I mean, it's not like we can't do both! It's not like we have to shift time and money from helping human beings in some third world country to get clean water just because we choose to regulate the meat industry.

I hear this argument quite a lot; that we should take care of our human fellow human beings before we start worrying about animals. I usually reply with "well, which human rights organization do you donate to", which is normally met with silence.

More often than not, I find that the people interested in animal welfare are often the same people interested in other forms of charity.

you seem to think we disagree, but you kind of prove my point, we cannot even focus on taking care of each other, whether it is because of apathy or lack of possibility. we are not going to get anywhere near ensuring animal welfare as long as human suffering isn't alleviated.

luxury is not an issue, the amount of resources used for meat production pales in comparison to military expenditure, or entertainment.

however it seems that you are completely against eating meat regardless of treatment, or am i wrong?

and in answer to your question caritas internationalis, not so much human rights, more in line with the world food program.
and unicef a long long time ago.... although my ex kind of forced me into it

 

[Dimitriov]

No. Morals are a human invention, and dictate interactions between humans. Their purpose in any society is to allow people to live together, and cooperate as harmoniously as possible. They are effectively the spoken and unspoken consensus of the group developed over time.

Therefore I can see no way for it to be inherently immoral to eat meat. Eating humans could be immoral, eating other people's animals could be immoral, and certain practices of raising and treating animals could even be immoral.

But animals are not humans and do not have morals: therefore, it cannot be immoral to eat meat.


That's my philosophy anyway, and I have yet to hear anyone convincingly refute it.

So you believe that anything can be done to animals without any moral recourse? Including torturing for amusement? And this also applies to all animals as well, including the ones coming closer to human intelligence like chimps and dolphins? If you answer no to any of those, than your definition of morality is flawed.

Not really, I just need to, apparently, add the part I'd left unspoken before. Which is that eating animals could be immoral if a society in general deemed it to be outside the acceptable mode of behaviour.

As I previously stated morality is involved with how humans behave, and how that affects other humans. Therefore, it could be immoral to eat cows in India (indeed in Hindu communities I am certain it is). However, where I live (Canada) and where the OP is (Europe) it most certainly isn't. Nor is it if you look at the global human population. Or, especially, humanity over the course of our whole history.

Whereas most societies do indeed find "unnecessary cruelty" to animals to be abhorrent (myself included). What is considered "unnecessary cruelty" does, however, vary a great deal.

 

[Anget Colslaw]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Every higher order organism on this planet lives off of the death of other organisms.

Everything this guy said. If you want to be vegetarian then fine by me just leave me alone when I'm eating. I simply find it impossible imagine myself being a vegetarian. Anything else on my mind has been said by someone else and probably worded better.