Sims Dev: "Nobody" Questioned Inclusion of Same-Sex Relationships

eljawa

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Nov 20, 2009
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I wish you could choose sexual orientation in the sims. Its kinda frustrating when a sim based on yourself goes and hooks up with a sim based on your best friend when you aren't looking...

But yeah, good for EA/MAXIS (Does maxis still make the Sims games? or just SimCity)
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Caiphus said:
StewShearer said:
People wouldn't even find it unless they looked for it.
To be fair, that hasn't stopped people complaining about it before.

Both in real life, frankly, and in other games.

Still, good on the development team for getting it in the game without a fuss.
Agreed with that. Remember the whole Hot Coffee fiasco in GTA: SA [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod]? You could only access it if you used A THIRD PARTY MODIFICATION OF THE GAME'S CODE but it still caused a shitstorm.

I'm honestly surprised that this Sims business never earned the scorn of Fox News or CNN.
 

MASTACHIEFPWN

Will fight you and lose
Mar 27, 2010
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eljawa said:
I wish you could choose sexual orientation in the sims. Its kinda frustrating when a sim based on yourself goes and hooks up with a sim based on your best friend when you aren't looking...

But yeah, good for EA/MAXIS (Does maxis still make the Sims games? or just SimCity)
I recently updated my sims 3 game, and now in the opening menu their is a thing showing the Maxis logo.
I heard they were signed on to do the sims 4.
 

Eternal_Lament

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Sep 23, 2010
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I remember a while back someone asked a question about why certain games attracted ire for having the option to pursue homosexual relationships and why others that had the same feature barely got any controversy, so I'll post my answer from there: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.399700-Why-was-there-no-uproar-about-same-sex-relations-in-Skyrim-or-the-Fable-series#16403957

The basic conceit comes down to three particular aspects: the first is how pronounced the feature is in the marketing for the game. Games such as Skyrim or Fable mostly focused on the none-relationship aspects, and the few times it did it was more to show that a relationship feature was in place, they didn't really make a big deal or production over the fact you could have same-sex relationships, while things such as Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 made such a big deal about it, implying that it was more of an integral and necessary feature rather than just something that's there as an option. The Sims has always seemed to go down this path, in which I've never seen a Sims game make a big deal out of having Sims of the same-sex pursue each other (when I say big deal, I mean the marketing didn't call attention to that one fact as if it were a new mechanic players were expected to employ)

The second aspect was that in most other games with relationship options, those relationships usually amounted to nothing. Fable and Skyrim's relationships were more for window dressing than anything else, and if it was one of those few times it resulted in being given something, it becomes easier to identify that relationship as one out of the necessity of an item rather than a reflection of the player's personality. It goes without saying that the relationships in the BioWare games were made more important due to their emotional resonance both with the character and the player, and as such are more reflective of the player's personality as opposed to RANDOM_NAMED_NPC_#4967. It only really becomes an aspect of it's own if the player feels they aren't using every aspect of the game as much as they can, and if that includes pursuing each relationship, sooner or later the same-sex ones are going to crop up, and may make it more of an issue for the players that get uppity about that. The Sims, meanwhile, seems so divorced from the concept of anything particularly special or significant. Sure you can create yourself, but from what I've seen, people treat The Sims less as placing themselves in the world and more acting as a god controlling the actions and environment of the world below them; I'm sure in this instance it really doesn't matter if a same-sex option is a thing.

There's a third aspect, however as someone posted, The Sims may actually fall into the more controversial side of this one, depending on your outlook. This aspect is on how easy it is to fall into same-sex relationships without intending to do so. Skyrim and Fable's romance systems don't really allow for accidental clicks, so if you ended up in a relationship with someone, it's usually because that was your intent; therefore the chances of you falling into a relationship you don't want is pretty much null. In BioWare games it can be considered easier because generally speaking, simply acting nice may convey romantic interests, even if all you were doing was trying to be friendly; it can seem more jarring for a player if it seems to come out of nowhere, and as such may think the game is trying to tell them something about their personality that has less to do with the player's actual personality and more to do with the game's dialogue system. Now, based on what someone said, The Sims may fall into this category, in so much as it's possible to miss-click and have Sims enter a same-sex relationship, but as we discussed in aspect 2, the fact these relationships barely matter and are less a representation of the player than the toys a player simply has around, it probably amounts to very little in terms of controversy, especially since, if nothing else, it can be just as easy to not continue that relationship if you really care, if not just create new characters.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Roofstone said:
Zhukov said:
OT: I agree, nobody questioned it because of what it is. Life. And life has homosexuality.
But life also has homophobes and tantrums about treating homosexuals like they're regular, natural, normal, or whatever the buzzword they choose is.
 

Sansha

There's a principle in business
Nov 16, 2008
1,726
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When I first discovered you could have homosexual relationships in The Sims, I was surprised for a moment, but only in that it was a feature, but also that it's so bloody seamless.

There's no difference, especially in Sims 2, between building a hetero and homosexual relationship. You talk, flirt, get intimate, and boom. There's literally no difference, and that's why I think nobody's questioned it or really made that big a deal outside the studio - it's just *there*, as a natural part of life.
 

Covarr

PS Thanks
May 29, 2009
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I can totally see this being debate-worth in other games, but there's one thing to keep in mind here: The Sims is a sandbox game, whose primary purpose is to let you do anything you want. Nobody saw a problem with the inclusion of a criminal career track. Why? Because The Sims doesn't allow or disallow things for the sake of moral or political statements. Whether or not you support gay marriage, it's ridiculous to have a problem with a sandbox game giving freedom. It's the nature of the genre.

P.S. Thanks

P.P.S. And before someone misunderstands me, my use of the criminal career track as an example is not intended to compare gay sex with burglary, but to convey that the game actively doesn't even care, and leaves it up to the player to decide what they think is right and wrong for their sims.
 

Roofstone

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May 13, 2010
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Roofstone said:
OT: I agree, nobody questioned it because of what it is. Life. And life has homosexuality.
But life also has homophobes and tantrums about treating homosexuals like they're regular, natural, normal, or whatever the buzzword they choose is.
True, but I don't think it'd be fun if half of the town decided to throw stones at you in the street because you kissed another male.

It'd certainly be interesting if sims could be prejudiced, but.. Not very fun, I think.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Roofstone said:
True, but I don't think it'd be fun if half of the town decided to throw stones at you in the street because you kissed another male.

It'd certainly be interesting if sims could be prejudiced, but.. Not very fun, I think.
I'm just saying that backlash-free homosexuality is kind of unusual because of the other things that are a part of life.

A lot of people just plain suck.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Wait you mean homosexual relationships weren't already in the Sims games? I always assumed they were. Huh...
 

Mycroft Holmes

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Irridium said:
Wait you mean homosexual relationships weren't already in the Sims games? I always assumed they were. Huh...
They were. He's just saying no one ever gave a shit or even bothered discussing it whenever they did it. It was just something they added and everyone at the company was on board.

The only reason it's being brought up now, is likely because EA wants some good PR. They always fall back on the 'we support the LGBT community' flag waving.

Like when Mass Effect 3 came out and everyone was mad about the game. So EA was like 'we wont back down on our inclusion of homosexual romances and you can just deal with that.' And the 5% of their player base who cared about that was like raghhhhhh, and the other 95% went 'wait what? that isn't why we are mad about this game...'
 

PirateRose

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Aug 13, 2008
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The whole reason attention is brought on relationships in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, is because it has pretty much become a major optional feature that the fans drool over in Bioware games. Fans spend months, even before characters are fully announced for the game, who is going to be romancable and what previous character they should bring back and make a romance option. I know about ten people that are absolutely certain Cullen for Dragon Age 3 is a romance and nobody is 100% sure he is even going to be really a party member or temp or something.

It's not really the developer's fault for deciding to bring attention to it and show the options that are available. The fans overwhelming demand it so they can start planning out who they're going to pine for, they try to hack into Bioware's computers for leaks to find out who will be available, people put out false information to troll each other.

I remember when they announced Dragon Age 2 options and people went crazy. Both negative and positive reactions. It's like waiting to see who is drafted to a football team.

Yeah, there's a lot of controversy around it, but it doesn't mean no one is happy to hear about it. I know people who were absolutely thrilled that after three games, they were finally allowed to romance Kaidan with a male Shepard. And that information just came out as a leak from when that guy hacked the demo. Many were disappointed that Vega was not available for either male or female Shepard at all. But clearly from the Citadel DLC, the combination of his homophobic behavior and female Shepard having to get him drunk in order to sleep with him, some writer at Bioware wants to make sure everyone knows their baby is off limits to the romance obsessed fan base.
 

Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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MinionJoe said:
wombat_of_war said:
the sims franchise has sold upwards of 46 million copies, been around for close to 14 years and i havent actually heard anyone actually make an issue out of the fact you could have same sex relationships in it
Well, if EA is to be believed, all the people that voted them Worst Company in America two years in a row all had a problem with it. :p
Well it certainly wasn't for their values about same-sex relations.

Which is, I suppose, a good thing.

And yeah this is ...pretty much the aspiration of every game with an option to allow homosexual themes. It should be this way. Painless, without controversy or media alert. And an option alongside their heterosexual option without any questions asked.

I do see Value in the Sims. I don't like the series at all, in fact it's something my sister and her gaggling school friends were into and then un-ironically referred to themselves as gamers for a little while. I kinda loudly snorted from the other room where I was busy raiding on WoW over five or six years back.

Buuut if I allow the casuals into my scope of gamer-okays, this should too. And The Sims, while a very odd and unenjoyable concept to me and many others, it's one of those things that could pave the way for more engaging experiences. If the sims can pull all their mundane social mini management concept into a more interesting setting and work it in alongside more weighty material, who knows what could be accomplished. Evolve it beyond what it is right now.

And unquestioningly including homosexual relationships into their 'life simulator' is a good first step. Wanna create a life simulator? You gotta include everything that goes into life. This genre is practically boundless so instead of creating shitty expansion packs for it, I'd like if they went bigger.
 

ThunderCavalier

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Nov 21, 2009
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Anyone else like how it was actually kinda nice to see a developer putting this in without so much fuss or controversy or even any media attention put in it?

It was just "Hey, this is a thing now." and everyone was cool with it. imo, that just shows the maturity of everyone involved.
 

Rebel_Raven

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Jul 24, 2011
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It is pretty interesting that the Sims avoided the conflict almost entirely.

I appreciate the sims series a lot for it being open like that. I really do. Maxis has a dear spot in my heart, though I don't often say it enough.

I appreciate it a lot that they put Sims on consoles.
 

Nosirrah

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Apr 16, 2013
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I love how games are called immature, but maxis are mature enough to include this without debate, yet some governments
aren't.
 

Vzzdak

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May 7, 2010
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Bit of trivia.

Back in the earliest Sims 3, it was possible to have two men in a relationship and one become pregnant. That got patched out, though perhaps that could have been justified by doing a specific activity at the science facility.
 

RikuoAmero

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Jan 27, 2010
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Eternal_Lament said:
I remember a while back someone asked a question about why certain games attracted ire for having the option to pursue homosexual relationships and why others that had the same feature barely got any controversy, so I'll post my answer from there: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.399700-Why-was-there-no-uproar-about-same-sex-relations-in-Skyrim-or-the-Fable-series#16403957

The basic conceit comes down to three particular aspects: the first is how pronounced the feature is in the marketing for the game. Games such as Skyrim or Fable mostly focused on the none-relationship aspects, and the few times it did it was more to show that a relationship feature was in place, they didn't really make a big deal or production over the fact you could have same-sex relationships, while things such as Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 made such a big deal about it, implying that it was more of an integral and necessary feature rather than just something that's there as an option. The Sims has always seemed to go down this path, in which I've never seen a Sims game make a big deal out of having Sims of the same-sex pursue each other (when I say big deal, I mean the marketing didn't call attention to that one fact as if it were a new mechanic players were expected to employ)

The second aspect was that in most other games with relationship options, those relationships usually amounted to nothing. Fable and Skyrim's relationships were more for window dressing than anything else, and if it was one of those few times it resulted in being given something, it becomes easier to identify that relationship as one out of the necessity of an item rather than a reflection of the player's personality. It goes without saying that the relationships in the BioWare games were made more important due to their emotional resonance both with the character and the player, and as such are more reflective of the player's personality as opposed to RANDOM_NAMED_NPC_#4967. It only really becomes an aspect of it's own if the player feels they aren't using every aspect of the game as much as they can, and if that includes pursuing each relationship, sooner or later the same-sex ones are going to crop up, and may make it more of an issue for the players that get uppity about that. The Sims, meanwhile, seems so divorced from the concept of anything particularly special or significant. Sure you can create yourself, but from what I've seen, people treat The Sims less as placing themselves in the world and more acting as a god controlling the actions and environment of the world below them; I'm sure in this instance it really doesn't matter if a same-sex option is a thing.

There's a third aspect, however as someone posted, The Sims may actually fall into the more controversial side of this one, depending on your outlook. This aspect is on how easy it is to fall into same-sex relationships without intending to do so. Skyrim and Fable's romance systems don't really allow for accidental clicks, so if you ended up in a relationship with someone, it's usually because that was your intent; therefore the chances of you falling into a relationship you don't want is pretty much null. In BioWare games it can be considered easier because generally speaking, simply acting nice may convey romantic interests, even if all you were doing was trying to be friendly; it can seem more jarring for a player if it seems to come out of nowhere, and as such may think the game is trying to tell them something about their personality that has less to do with the player's actual personality and more to do with the game's dialogue system. Now, based on what someone said, The Sims may fall into this category, in so much as it's possible to miss-click and have Sims enter a same-sex relationship, but as we discussed in aspect 2, the fact these relationships barely matter and are less a representation of the player than the toys a player simply has around, it probably amounts to very little in terms of controversy, especially since, if nothing else, it can be just as easy to not continue that relationship if you really care, if not just create new characters.
Just wanted to share with you my memories of Fable 1 on the original Xbox. I was the most evil male character ever, I regularly wiped out every town just for sh*ts and giggles...and yet, once the towns respawned, every single NPC would fall in love with me, male and female. I can't remember much of my playthrough of Fable 2 and I never touched 3, so can't comment on them.