Simulationism

[Splyth]

But here is the main question- you thinking me crazy is just a defense mechanism. So I could be speaking the truth. How do you know?

Do you know what you just said? Essentially "You can't prove it isn't true." Which is a logical fallacy. In other words your argument has no proof or validation whatsoever and your trying to justify it by saying that we can't prove it's untruthfulness.

 

[Nia-san]

But here is the main question- you thinking me crazy is just a defense mechanism. So I could be speaking the truth. How do you know?

Do you know what you just said? Essentially "You can't prove it isn't true." Which is a logical fallacy. In other words your argument has no proof or validation whatsoever and your trying to justify it by saying that we can't prove it's untruthfulness.

Yet the same can be said about other beliefs as well. We have the bible but how can we prove its true? we have some historical proof of some of the events such as Hebrews working for the Egyptians but the bible says they were slaves and that when they left Egypt they were armed. Slaves leaving Egypt wouldn't be given weapons as they left, unless they weren't slaves. There is proof that they were actually public service workers for the Egyptians and not slaves. So we can prove the bible was right on a few events, but how accurate it depicts those events is iffy. There are many stories in the bible that there is no way we can prove so how can we justify it's untruthfulness?

and in case your wondering where I got the information. Check out the History channel's documentary on bible wars.

 

[zacaron]

well you are right in a sense but this "VR" sims game is just being played by our brains instead of some other people looking down on us from above.

 

[tsb247]

I believe that the "world" we believe in, and live in, is just a simulation. This does bear some similarity to the Matrix, slightly. However, this is not just the planet, this is everywhere and everything in this 'world' (universe, etc).

You see, I believe we are all code. We are not humans 'plugged in', but are just like characters in a game. You know how AI is getting more advanced? Well, this is the result! We are all coded and placed in a simulation, which is also coded and created. Maybe for observation, or maybe 'gamers' play in this simulation like some wannabe-pilots play in flight sims? Recreating events in a realistic replication if life, with no repercussions because we aren't actually real?

Maybe they are the ones going insane and massacring? Because they have no fear of death, since they are only 'playing' a character, they can do anything that we would be too afraid to do. That character was created by them, but they provided a back-story/history, implemented that character into people's minds, maybe as a father, brother, etc, and with all the right tweaks, they just appeared and everyone thought it was normal? That or they took control of a character already created, like they could be with me right now, making me post. Makes me seem crazy, so you don't believe me! They are cunning.

Those considered 'insane' could be trial-and-error examples left within the world to provide an example to future coders? Not quite sure on that one.

Also, the fact that my code allows me to have these thoughts, shows that the 'creators' wanted to allow me to think that, so you all then use it as an argument to disprove my belief. They are using it as defense of the system. You see, if we figure it out, the simulation does not work. Like an ant farm that sees you and just freezes - you can't observe it in it's natural state.

I have no idea about the origins of The Creators, but I am sure they are technologically advanced, and are from what we could call the 'future' in comparison to our time-scale.

But here is another thing - this simulation could have been created a year ago, a month ago, or right when I post this topic! All they must create is a back-story (eg. history itself), characters, and memories and lives for those characters, and BAM, you have life that has supposedly existed for this amount of time (however many billions of years), that has possibly, in reality, (not a pun) existed for only a few moments.

How do we know The Creators are what we believe to be 'human', or 'normal'? Maybe we're the aliens in their little scheme?

I know it's a touchy subject, but religion could be a defense mechanism - people believe in god, and creationism, and so I seem like I'm bat-shit insane, and nothing compared to their faith. Again, the system's defenses are in play!

But here is the main question- you thinking me crazy is just a defense mechanism. So I could be speaking the truth. How do you know?

Does the word, "Psychosis," have any bearing in your mind? You're pretty much the textbook definition if you believe this crap. Many of the connections you make are either:

A. Logical fallacies (you can't prove me wrong so it must be true)

B. Self-fulfilling (ill)logical loops (if you think I'm crazy, that just proves me more right)

How does this make any sense again?

If I said, "Jesus was a man with a beard. I have a beard; therefore I am Jesus," that would follow along the same lines as much of the logic strung throughout your post.

 

[Uskis]

And he is running out lives, and theres no cheats.

If I could only find that console....

 

[tsb247]

Yet the same can be said about other beliefs as well. We have the bible but how can we prove its true? we have some historical proof of some of the events such as Hebrews working for the Egyptians but the bible says they were slaves and that when they left Egypt they were armed. Slaves leaving Egypt wouldn't be given weapons as they left, unless they weren't slaves. There is proof that they were actually public service workers for the Egyptians and not slaves. So we can prove the bible was right on a few events, but how accurate it depicts those events is iffy. There are many stories in the bible that there is no way we can prove so how can we justify it's untruthfulness?

and in case your wondering where I got the information. Check out the History channel's documentary on bible wars.

Yes, but many aspects of the Bible are at least rooted somewhat in human history. The same is true with the Kohran (I know I probably spelled that wrong) and the Torah. While there is a faith element involved for sure, there is at least a logical way to explain a great deal of it.

I have always found that if you view religious writings in terms of metaphores and if you view them as a way to simplify something in a way that all humans can comprehend (like an adult talking to a young child - i.e. the stork brings babies), then they are quite easy to believe.

Can faith be argued? Of course, and it is often argued to death. Can historical events be argued? To a degree, but if something happened, it happened. It may have happened differently than was written, but at least there is a concensus that said event occured.

 

[Nia-san]

Yes, but many aspects of the Bible are at least rooted somewhat in human history. The same is true with the Kohran (I know I probably spelled that wrong) and the Torah. While there is a faith element involved for sure, there is at least a logical way to explain a great deal of it.

I have always found that if you view religious writings in terms of metaphores and if you view them as a way to simplify something in a way that all humans can comprehend (like an adult talking to a young child - i.e. the stork brings babies), then they are quite easy to believe.

Can faith be argued? Of course, and it is often argued to death. Can historical events be argued? To a degree, but if something happened, it happened. It may have happened differently than was written, but at least there is a concensus that said event occured.

True, history is what it is. How its told can be easily bent to whatever point of view you happen to believe in or read but they all agree that it has happened. I don't really know the Quran (I checked the spelling) or the Torah as well as I know the Bible but I'm sure they all have overlapping events that don't exactly agree. Probably a good example would be the Gaza Strip and Israel. Both the Arabs and the Jews believe that this is their promise land given to them on some religious basis.

 

[ilikepillows]

i agree. last week i found a glitch, and spent like 20 mins trying to reattach my legs, which got stuck to the celing somehow, then i heared the music you here when mario falls off of the stage and had to restart the day again.

 

[HateDread]

Yes, but many aspects of the Bible are at least rooted somewhat in human history. The same is true with the Kohran (I know I probably spelled that wrong) and the Torah. While there is a faith element involved for sure, there is at least a logical way to explain a great deal of it.

I have always found that if you view religious writings in terms of metaphores and if you view them as a way to simplify something in a way that all humans can comprehend (like an adult talking to a young child - i.e. the stork brings babies), then they are quite easy to believe.

Can faith be argued? Of course, and it is often argued to death. Can historical events be argued? To a degree, but if something happened, it happened. It may have happened differently than was written, but at least there is a concensus that said event occured.

True, history is what it is. How its told can be easily bent to whatever point of view you happen to believe in or read but they all agree that it has happened. I don't really know the Quran (I checked the spelling) or the Torah as well as I know the Bible but I'm sure they all have overlapping events that don't exactly agree. Probably a good example would be the Gaza Strip and Israel. Both the Arabs and the Jews believe that this is their promise land given to them on some religious basis.

But this is not history. I am not saying it happened once upon a time, or that something written in a book is true. I am simply discussing the possibility that this is in fact a simulation, of which I believe in. A simulation that could be, in reality, any amount of time old. Could be a second, could be a billion years - we just don't know, even if we find evidence for proving our age, it was simply designed and placed within the system for us to find, to justify your arguments.

i agree. last week i found a glitch, and spent like 20 mins trying to reattach my legs, which got stuck to the celing somehow, then i heared the music you here when mario falls off of the stage and had to restart the day again.

Haha, I like it, but that could not happen - if some part of that code glitched, The Creators would wipe it from your memory, and from the memory of the other characters. Nobody would ever know.

How is this entire theory any crazier than more 'conventional' religions? They have millions of followers.

Crap they figured it out, quick find the reset button.

Got it.

Anyways, here is one, if you were right then these people/objects running the simulation would be onto you, they would delete you.

Ahh, but if they did, and removed any trace of me from every mind, another one of me would pop up at some point - people always catch on, and someone, somewhere, thinks the same as I do. If I was not deleted, you would say "Oh, but you're not deleted! You mustn't be speaking the truth!" Maybe they know I am onto them, but upon seeing this, they leave me within the system, so you can use that very argument against me! Then, if other believers (or potential believers) see me, and see that everyone thinks I'm crazy, it may stop them from acting (sharing their information), and so removing the problem before it exists, and with no effort, as well as defeating me in your eyes (you think I am crazy, which I am not).

May this intelligent discussion continue. Thank you for not ignoring my beliefs

 

[mike1921]

Yes I believe that all of us are just one bad Nintendo 64 game being played by one lousy Japanese kid.

And he is running out lives, and theres no cheats.

Edit: The Matrix is not even that good.

That's arguable, for the first one, at least.

But, that is not my point, at all. I am using it as way of conveying my message in a as-sane-as-possible way. Obviously that is not working.

And FYI - this is no joke. This is what I believe in, and think about. I was hoping for an intelligent discussion. Surely somebody shares my views on this simulation?

No, I doubt many actively believe that. I believe it's possible and less insane than religion but......meh.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I suppose I could bring up Heidegger's philosophy and how it makes a lot more sense than this, or I could just thank the programmers for the wonderful things they gave us. Because the messenger is quite clearly off his gourd, however, there is no way I can take the discussion seriously, so I'll just give thanks for those lines of code involving curry, masturbation, and hot French Catholic vampire hunters who triple-wield throwing swords.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

in before Jean Baudrillard's "Simulation and Simulacra" (i'm too tired to contribute meaningfully to this argument, so I thought I would leave Wiki droppings to provoke more intelligent discussion)

edit: nm i gots an opinion. our social interaction and intellectual connections are a network of simulation, as these ideas can be mapped out and quantified yet only exist within the realm of our shared experiences. but our physical existence lies within a system that is so far beyond our complete comprehension that we can only describe it as totally real, because to reach the point of understanding its falsehood would negate our own human nature.

vidja gaems r fun, btw

 

[Sewblon]

It kind of makes sense but isn't it just as plausible that this is just somebody's dream and you only think this because they are dreaming that you do? It is also just as plausible that an omnipotent god made the universe and some people believe in evolution because he made them that way and he finds it amusing.

 

[imperialwar]

Man there was a movie with this exact same premise, but the name of it escapes me.
Where the virtual world had made a virtual world of its own.. Anyone recall ?

 

[khululy]

The world a simulation... who can say?
Maybe it's just a dream, maybe there is no reallity.
I mean it's acceptable a big explosion set all in motion or that it was the hand of God?
I think this is just as possible.
We humans are ot capable of knowing that answer not at this stage of evolution.
I'm not saying it's true or untrue because I would be wrong both ways.

A Dream Within A Dream


Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

 

[Thirsk]

"If life's a game, then where are my fucking cheatcodes?!"
Surprised noone've bought that up yet.

In all seriousness though, I will begin consider the argument when just one slight bit of proof in favour of the theory surfaces. Same thing with religion.

 

[GloatingSwine]

But here is the main question- you thinking me crazy is just a defense mechanism. So I could be speaking the truth. How do you know?

Do you know what you just said? Essentially "You can't prove it isn't true." Which is a logical fallacy. In other words your argument has no proof or validation whatsoever and your trying to justify it by saying that we can't prove it's untruthfulness.

Yet the same can be said about other beliefs as well. We have the bible but how can we prove its true?

Yes, that's one of the chief objections to every other kind of woo, that it's unfalsifiable and therefore useless.

 

[Goldeneye1989]

in the end does it really matter if we are or are not, being code will not effect our own life or perceived vison of life (a debate for another day).

the search for Why we do what we do, as well as what we came from confuses me. will it change who you are, what you do, how you enjoy life if tyou do at all. for me there is one universial truth that has been passed down in my family for geneartions

"you will succed as a parent if you made the childhood of your children better then your own"

(the debate as who your parents are is also a question for another day, "your biological" or your "adopted", ect.)

it dosent matter if we are all programed, the program has been devised so that we have free choice.

But do we have 'free choice'? It is entirely possible that we are programmed with underlying agenda's, that one would consider 'sub-conscious'. This could link back to my massacres - maybe they were given no choice, but were instead tricked into believing they had this choice, and so they then proceeded to wipe out those that were considered 'bad' by The Creators? And the victims were in that place due to an alteration of the factors - maybe their bus was 'made' late via programming, so they were in the line-of-fine, killed, and stopped from creating a mess, which The Creators would need to mop up.

Like a Minority Report preemptive strike, but inside our simulation. It could be governed by programs designed by The Creators inside the simulation itself, so The Creators need not monitor every single detail.

So, then, do we even have free choice? Or are we deluded into thinking we have free choice, by alteration of the factors used in making the supposed 'decision'?

but then that is our perceived version of free choice, there fore it is free choice in relitive to us,

and the Massacres, even if they were eliminating people that the creators didn;t want around, we had the free choice to prosacute them or shoot them or write bad thing about them in the historical sence (mainly because your agrument said that hitler was working in the creators plan..... along with the allied forces who combatted hitler causeing the to be either more then one creator which then can be linked back to the religion sence that the christian god may be the creator of god and then the Buddist god be the creator of another)

my point is that even if we dont have free will we have perceived that we do, and me perceive to make our own choices, weather this is right or wrong is your choice to make and beleive in.

TLDR: Who cares what the gods/creators think, if they wanted you to question they designed it that way, if they wanted people to have the perception that they had free will they designed it that way. if they wanted people to offend you or call you insane, they designed it that way.

 

[Straitjacketeering]

Sounds like you played Star ocean:Till the end of time and the plot twist threw you on your friggan head mate.

 

[traceur_]

I've actually thought about that from time to time, it makes about as much sense as creationism. (christ I'm probably gonna get flamed for that)