Skyrim=Boring?

[thememan]

If you think all Dwemer ruins are so similar you haven't explored many.

They have certain thematic similarities, but that's about it. I haven't found any two Dwemer ruins that are the same. I once again forget the name of them, but during the main quest line if I recall there is an entire cavern filled with toppled over Dwemer towers, something that as far as I recall isn't present anywhere. Compare this with the entire city of Markarth which is essentially a giant Dwemer city with a large complex underground that is largely flooded in certain areas, or to Mzluft, or to any other Dwemer ruin. Their only real similarity is thematic Dwemer overtones, but each has it's own thing going on that sets it apart from the rest. Some of the Nord ruins are a tad unvaried at times, but many of them are unique in some form or another. It seems the argument is that if two locations use the same thematic overtones, then they are not varied enough. Which is ridiculous.

 

[uguito-93]

The thing that happened with me is that while the first 20 hours were enjoyable, the lack of evolution in the core mechanics and the lack of variety in the environments meant that I reached a point where I lost all desire to keep playing it.

 

[ExiledPaladin13]

If you think all Dwemer ruins are so similar you haven't explored many.

Thats true, most dwemer ruins seem to 'look' the same because the corridors are just plain stone walls, so every corner you have to take seems similar, thus allowing your BRAINS, ahem, brain to feel bored of them (i dont think i made any sense here). Another feature that makes people think dwemer ruins are similar is the way they are presented in terms of exterior looks, I.e. the gates, First impressions are everything right?

Off-Topic: I still play skyrim, going for 300 hours :]

 

[thememan]

Indeed. Sure, certain structures follow a similar theme, but that only makes sense for a world. However, each type of structure and given locale has it's own unique theme going for it, and each locale I've found so far has it's own unique pecularities that add to it. I forget the name of the cave I was in earlier today, but it was a massive cavern with openings to the surface and was well lit. Coming out of the walls were huge waterfalls, and streams flowing throughout. Pathways connected various platforms throughout the huge cavern. Silly thing is, I could find a damn thing in there other than a few trolls. But good god, was a cool sight. Of course, it seems that some would say that it's just a repainted cave following the common cave setting of being a cave with only a few add-ons, and so isn't that interesting. Which is ridiculous to the extreme.

If they find Skyrim repetitive I dont see how anyone could suffer through Oblivion or Morrowind.

Hell Fallout, both 3 and New vegas, are significantly worse in this aspect, yet few complained about them.

That's what I've been trying to figure out. Oblivion's ruins were practically copy/pasted versions of one another with only the layout in many of them being changed. And there was pretty much only one type of ruin at that! Morrowind was insufferable some times, as really the Dwemer ruins were almost all nearly identical to one another. Further, neither game had any actual unique locales in the least (Morrowind was a bit worse than Oblivion, but Oblivion suffered from nearly every town being identical in theme to the next).

Fallout 3 was a tad better at this, however the landscape was pretty damn bland. Endless wasteland stretching forever in all directions. The uniqueness was in the towns, which I will admit were pretty damn neat overall.

That said, Skyrim really beats them all. All of the major cities are unique entities in and of themselves, with pretty much no similarities between them. The landscape is rather largely varied for this type of game, with many different types of environments to explore (If all one can say is that the grasslands and tundra are to similar, they are ignoring the rest of my fairly decent list of environments up above). There are many more unique ruins and places in Skyrim than in either of the earlier two games. Sure, some are less inspired than others. But there really are some that are quite amazing and unique places.

I get the feeling that people just want to hate on Skyrim in any way possible. I will admit, I have my issues with it, but some are just being wholly unfair in their criticism.

 

[SajuukKhar]

If you think all Dwemer ruins are so similar you haven't explored many.

Thats true, most dwemer ruins seem to 'look' the same because the corridors are just plain stone walls, so every corner you have to take seems similar, thus allowing your BRAINS, ahem, brain to feel bored of them (i dont think i made any sense here). Another feature that makes people think dwemer ruins are similar is the way they are presented in terms of exterior looks, I.e. the gates, First impressions are everything right?

Off-Topic: I still play skyrim, going for 300 hours :]

Most of the Dwemer ruins have some sort of unique series of towers/walkways/outside buildings you have to pass through around them.

I cant recall two Dwemer ruins that looked the same from the outside.

 

[Joccaren]

You... you do know what a Taiga is right? By it's very definition it cannot be similar to a grassland/tundra. It takes a little bit more than putting some extra paint on something to change it from a tundra to a taiga. It's an entirely different biome.

So your answer is trees. Dependent on the density I can see where you're coming from, lower density regions however bare a lot of similarities.

That said, when you put it like that there are absolutely no unique setting in any game whatsoever. Because those walls over there are just painted over versions of another wall. That city is just a restructured version of another city with only marginally different building structures. Seriously, this argument can be used for damn near any game. Sure, Dwarven cities are similar, but that's because they're bloody dwarven cities. Most of them are unique in some fashion or another from one another, and few are identical to the degree you are stating.

Correct. In general, there isn't a ton of variance due to a ton of re-used assets in games. Places such as a Dwarven ruin are recognisably unique from a Foresworn outpost in Skyrim, but not from each other. The same holds true for all - and if not than certainly the vast majority - of videogames.

I would really be interested in what you consider "varied", because honestly it seems like there isn't a single game out there that would be considered such under your rather strict terms.

Pretty much. Note: I am not saying there is no variance at all. I am saying that once you've seen one example of something, you've seen them all. In no game - especially one that lets you free roam and explore - it doesn't take that long to see an example of everything.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

It does get a little dull, but I'm 170 hours into it and there are no signs of me stopping until the next Elder Scrolls. I just really like Skyrim, despite it's flaws.

 

[thememan]

The thing that happened with me is that while the first 20 hours were enjoyable, the lack of evolution in the core mechanics and the lack of variety in the environments meant that I reached a point where I lost all desire to keep playing it.

I will admit, the gameplay is a rather valid point. It is really quite easy to level all of your pertinent abilities to a point where there is no place to go, and certain elements lack a bit of variety (Spells! I want more spells, durnit! Or at least a spell creator... which would be totally awesome). I will say this, I was initially turned off by the perk system as I was rather fond of Morrowind's system (Which Oblivion improved upon in some aspects, but did worse on in others). That said, after I played the game abit I warmed up immensely to it. What I would have preferred is something a tad more "unique", if you will. Rather than having mostly numbers-based increases for the most part(Which are nice, don't get me wrong), some more "qualitative" perks would be good. Special effects and unique abilities, if you will. That 50% reduced Magicka cost on my Destruction spells is nice and all, but being able overcharge different spells at the same time would be kinda cool (Overcharge Flames+Sparks for instance). Or an ability that essentially has a small chance to destroy non-unique weapons/armor when cast (Coupled with a sweet disintegration effect). The major problem I found with the system is that most of the perks are passive, unobservable perks that don't really show the effect that much (Although they are present). Of course, mods and all that may do this in the future.

That said, it is still a huge step forward from Oblivion/Morrowind. Where if you don't set things up almost perfectly, and are very conscious of every last action you do, you are likely to fall into the trap of leveling up way to fast in non-combat skills and basically reaching a point where it is impossible to continue. Also, Morrowind's miss chance early in the game was ridiculous. During my start games it could take me 10 minutes to kill a god-damn Mudcrab(No exaggeration on this, I clocked on encounter with a solitary mudcrab at 10 minutes) due to some really bad luck.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I will admit, the gameplay is a rather valid point. It is really quite easy to level all of your pertinent abilities to a point where there is no place to go, and certain elements lack a bit of variety (Spells! I want more spells, durnit! Or at least a spell creator... which would be totally awesome).

Magic in Skyrim blows so hard.

destruction magic is nearly useless past level 25-30, and there's like no spells.

what happened to all my daedra summons Beth?

 

[thememan]

I will admit, the gameplay is a rather valid point. It is really quite easy to level all of your pertinent abilities to a point where there is no place to go, and certain elements lack a bit of variety (Spells! I want more spells, durnit! Or at least a spell creator... which would be totally awesome).

Magic in Skyrim blows so hard.

destruction magic is nearly useless past level 25-30, and there's like no spells.

what happened to all my daedra summons Beth?

I wouldn't say it *blows* so much as it makes a barely audible farting sound. It's just underwhelming, and I'm not sure why they didn't expand on the system. I've been playing a mage for my current character, and although I've been having fun with it (Except for the ridiculous Wards that enemy casters use, which are damn near impenetrable) it does get stale. I will say that I'm going to assume that expanding the spells available is on Bethesda's to-do list, and if there is decent DLC content released I may very well be inclined to buy it. Which I simply don't do on principle most of the time. Skyrim is really the exception to any of the "gaming" rules for me, as it has been the one game in a very long time that I have felt was worth paying full price for. Honestly, I feel like what is there (flaws and all) was well worth the price and then some.

Also, Destruction (And from what I've seen, Restoration to an extent- Where is Troll Strength? I lived off of that spell) got the shaft in the spells department. Conjuration is also rather uninspiring as there are pretty much no really decent higher level summons.

Although I will say, it's not so much amount of spells that is the biggest issue, it's the variety. Most of the spells in each school are simply a reiteration of a lower-level spell. Which is fine and dandy, but there should be more to it when there are effectively only 3 core spells in destruction (Fire-Ice-Lightning). Although they got rid of armor health or whatever it's called, a disintegrate spell would have been nice (Or even as a perk which provides a small chance to destroy armor/weapons that are non-unique).

 

[SajuukKhar]

I miss water walking, open, levitation, mark/recall, silence.

 

[Naqel]

After over 350 hours, I find it hard to entertain myself with the game further.

DLC plox.

 

[Patathatapon]

I found that after I beat the main quests, it got really boring really fast. This was a similar problem with FNV(Fallout: New Vegas), except I played through it twice bearably(First time with Mr. house, Second time with Caesar). Except in FNV the only thing that kept me going was the achievements, which I later abandoned. Only reason I kept playing Skyrim was again for the achievements, which I also abandoned.


If i was forced to give a recommendation, I'd say go to some earlier Bethesda games (as in Oblivion and Fallout 3, haven't played the earlier ones).


Oblivion was better in my opinion, and so was Fallout 3. They had replayability for not only the achievements, I actually liked tweaking things to see good, neutral, and bad. If you've already played those, give Bastion a shot.

 

[Torah Dreidelberg]

It's like "I just saved the goddamn world and nothing has visibly changed, I'm not even treated differently."

Yes because killing a dragon in the realm of the dead were NO ONE but the dead could see you is supposed to make you famous?

Why the fuck would ANYONE believe you actually did anything when no one was around to see it?

I mean they should have changed it to where you fought Alduin on Nirn so people would know yes, but as it stood why did you even remotely expect anyone to know you did anything?

Hell, its not even that. I straight up completed every single assassination for the Dark Brotherhood like I was a member of the Third Street Saints and after spending a day in jail, I get released and nobody remember what I did to that poor women's corpse just yesterday. Seriously, I shot her in the vagina with a arrow in front of three guards and got away with only a bounty, but then when I come back tomorrow with the bounty gone no one remember how horribly dismembered I left people of the community.

They will treat me the same despite being the head of every guild as if I was a lonesome peasant. If I'm in Daedric Armor or Drags they will react the same way they would to the inn keeper.

Yikes 4 months later and on comes the hate.

I liked skyrim, but its not for everyone. Next time I hop in, I begin the genocide, now that I've finished essentially every quest worth doing.

Every citizen of skyrim will meet a fiery electric death.

There will be no one to utter the phrase of the arrow'd knee

Except for the thirty or so un-killiable NPCs.

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I couldn't play it past a ten hour mark before I got sick and tired of the world only being shades of white and brown. Combat was mighty boring, and is bad as Minecraft combat. The world didn't give a fuck about my past actions, and overall was just a giant god damn bore. Game was too easy and you could beat everything if you just grinded enough. Leveling was broken. Outfits looked rather boring. Magic was just a over-done bow. Duelweilding was pointless since you could kill everything easier with just shield bash + Sword Slash. Music was terrible and repetitive garbage. Lore plot-holes with the main character vs NPCs. OH LOOK AT ME, I'M A KHAJIIT IN A CITY, WHY DON'T YOU COME IN HERE, because they aren't smart enough to know that you can just walk right past all the guards. Loading screens filled up way to much time.

Same thing I said before, Skyrim is a god-damn over-hyped piece of shit that ranks up there with Madden of Battlefield Duty in Space 97.

I might just be me but i'm pretty sure that there were well over 50. Also I have to disagree with you on the music, I enjoyed it very much.

 

[Torah Dreidelberg]

It's not hard to be better story-wise than Oblivion and Fallout 3, they were shit.

But I think Beth is better served going the combat route. Instead of straddling the fence, concentrate on the combat and making it better, even if that means weakening some of the other elements, like the prized 'rpg mechanics'. That other stuff is below average anyway (for rpgs), might as well do something really well, besides exploration.

You keep talking like Bethesda tries to make ES as the pinnacle of RPGs.

Also Skyrim has some considerable steps up from Fallout New Vegas in terms of RPG mechanics. most notable in perks.

I'm going to be honest, I enjoyed the traditional leveling better. I feel that level in a skill should improve your effectiveness and perks should be a side reward.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I'm going to be honest, I enjoyed the traditional leveling better. I feel that level in a skill should improve your effectiveness and perks should be a side reward.

-Raising your 1 handed skill from raises your 1 handed damage, all of the other weapon skills work the same
-Raising your Light/Heavy armor levels increases how much protection they provide
-Raising all other skills increases potion strength, enchanting strength0, sneak ability, lockpick ability, blocking power etc. etc. as you raise the relevant skill.
No perks needed


You don't need perks to get better in a skill, level still increases how much damage/protection/whatever you do, saying that it doesn't screams of not paying attention in the game, or not having played the game at all.

I have absolute 0 perks in bow skills yet I can 1 hit sneak kill giants with a base in-game bow, no OP custom enchantments, no OP custom smiting involved.

 

[Torah Dreidelberg]

I'm going to be honest, I enjoyed the traditional leveling better. I feel that level in a skill should improve your effectiveness and perks should be a side reward.

-Raising your 1 handed skill from raises your 1 handed damage, all of the other weapon skills work the same
-Raising your Light/Heavy armor levels increases how much protection they provide
-Raising all other skills increases of potions, enchanting, sneak, lockpick, blocking etc. etc. as you raise the relevant skill.
No perks needed


You don't need perks to get better in a skill, level still increases how much damage/protection/whatever you do, saying that it doesn't screams of not paying attention in the game, or not having played the game at all.

I have absolute 0 perks in bow skills yet I can 1 hit sneak kill giants with a base in-game bow, no OP custom enchantments, no OP custom smiting involved.

Sorry, I was a little confused with how it actually worked. Also I can assure you that I've played skyrim quite a lot. Steam: Morbidly Obese Albert.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

I was so hyped for Skyrim a couple months before it came out. I had played and really enjoyed elder scrolls 4 as well as fallout 3.I even had it preloaded on steam for launch day and played it at midnight. I had a major skyrim weekend that week and got to 25-30 hours and beat the game. Ever since beating the game every time I try to play and do side quests I am underwhelmed and bored with in 10-15 minutes. Ive tried many mods they don't seem to help at all either, what could be the problem?

Unfortunately...yeah. You've got a valid point. Might as well lay down some bullets to make this easier to organize.

-The main quest is pretty good. It brings you to some great sights, you fight interesting/terrifying things, and all that good stuff.

-The guild quests are bad. Mostly just bad. I think I stole some legal documents during the Thieves Guild quests, a picked someone's pocket to get in, but that was pretty much it. Oh, and I framed an innocent man for murder. So technically I stole his happy future, or something like that. The storyline of it was absolute shit, but I'll leave that aside. Compare it to the Thieves Guild quests in Oblivion: you stole a fucking Elder Scroll and took on the mantle of the Gray Fox.

What did I get from Skyrim's branch of the Thieves Guild? Well, I had to sell my soul to a daemon prince, and then I got some mediocre light armor. And immediately afterward, I discovered that I'll wander a tomb for eternity as a ghost until I go insane and become a crazy ghost. What fun.

-The Companions were underwhelming. They had one of the best scenes (and threats) in the game when Farkas is surrounded by Silver Hand [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQrLRS75w-U], and then it built up to an amazing amount of nothing. A few dungeon raids, and then nothing. I was expecting some sort of duel with Hircine or something, or at least seeing him during the questline. Nocturnal showed up to gloat during the Thieves Guild line, but no, Hircine was busy doing...other stuff, I guess.

-The College of Winterholm just kinda fell flat. It had all the components of an epic questline, but half of them happened off-screen, and there was rarely anything to show for it. Oh no, X character died? He was such a powerful wizard! Surely the battle that killed him reshaped mountains with the fury of his arcane m...oh. No, he just fell over. And everything else was fine. Yay.

-The Dark Brotherhood questline was actually pretty good. Any complaints are likely overshadowed by how much fun it was. But I guess some of it was rather uninventive. Most of the 'assassinations' were just going to the location, picking a fight with someone, and then killing them in plain view for all to see. It was basically just a normal encounter with a hostile NPC if you said the right thing. No sneaking required. Just insult him/her, then kill 'em in self-defense to make it look clean. I felt more like a cop on The Shield than a member of the Dark Brotherhood.

-The Empire vs. Stormcloaks was kinda bland. It was mostly just knocking over fortresses, and the only variety was what the guys inside looked like. For all the "The Empire is being oppressive and tried to kill you!" stuff I hear to make the Stormcloaks look good, I played Oblivion. I saw the last member of the Septim bloodline sacrifice himself to save the entire world, and in the weakness that resulted, half their provinces or neighbors responded by seceding or attacking, respectively. And the Stormcloaks just bang on about how they're meanieheads for not letting them publicly worship Talos, and that religious tolerance is good, and how Skyrim is for the Nords and not all those filthy lesser ra-

OH DEAR

-Fighting dragons was awesome. It didn't really stop being awesome later. So no complaints there.

-I guess the world just felt kind of shallow. It was a wonderfully diverse and expansive world, but it only went down a couple feet. It was a joy and a privilege to wade through it all, but the moment I tried to dive, I hit my head on bedrock.

-Sorta goes with the previous point: so many characters, all with names and stories, but none of them with character. It didn't use the Oblivion/Fallout method of zooming in on the person when you stop to talk to them, and that alleviated the issue of facial animations looking unnatural, but it led to the even worse problem of characters becoming indistinct, like the Dragonborn is in dire need of glasses. You were almost never close enough to get good looks at characters, and even then, none of them felt like they were main characters. One guy in the Thieves Guild even alludes to a quest that would explain his cryptic nickname, but it never happens. Ever. It's more of that 'vast yet shallow' thing: so much surface-area, but no depth to it. I can barely name a handful of characters out of a cast of hundreds, and that's a problem.

 

[ExiledPaladin13]

If you think all Dwemer ruins are so similar you haven't explored many.

Thats true, most dwemer ruins seem to 'look' the same because the corridors are just plain stone walls, so every corner you have to take seems similar, thus allowing your BRAINS, ahem, brain to feel bored of them (i dont think i made any sense here). Another feature that makes people think dwemer ruins are similar is the way they are presented in terms of exterior looks, I.e. the gates, First impressions are everything right?

Off-Topic: I still play skyrim, going for 300 hours :]

Most of the Dwemer ruins have some sort of unique series of towers/walkways/outside buildings you have to pass through around them.

I cant recall two Dwemer ruins that looked the same from the outside.

I can... does this mean that bethesda is applying some sort of brainwashing device? One that allows us to perceive dwemer ruins differently? Chaos! Anarchy!

Oh well, you might be right.