Skyrim Child Killing Mod

[LilithSlave]

I've always found Bethesda games, or at least Oblivion and a few others, to be rather lacking in child characters in general. Oblivion is rather uncanny in that you can walk around all these villages, but there's no children to be found. Shouldn't a healthy village have a few kids or two? I've always found it weird in video games, particularly ones with a fair population like the Elder Scrolls.

Especially since video games were a hobby that was originally intended for children as a children's toy. Or perhaps that's the reason? That many of us adults have been so wounded by being considered into something for children, video games, that some developers avoid creating child characters like the plague? Surely not, that would be insane and childish in it's own right to make such a sensitive-counter-reaction.

Plenty of games don't need to have children. But when you want to simulate population, it makes sense to have at least a few kids around.

As for allowing people to do awful things. I will never understand the desire to do horrible things in a sandbox. I pretty well always make the moral choice when I'm allowed it. I don't like the Grand Theft Auto games for that reason. And for that reason as well, I never misbehave in the Elder Scrolls games.

But you know, if you're going to be allowed to do bad things, you'd might as well be allowed to do bad things.

 

[Aethren]

My face after reading this thread: o_0

Child murder should not happen in a video game, because *it should not happen anywhere*
For any reason. At all. Ever.

Honestly, if it happens in a cutscene, or in an in-game event, fine. It's the truth: kids can die. And, if done well, it can add an extra layer of tragedy to a devastating event.

But under no circumstances should anyone be allowed to willfully harm a child. That goes beyond "The developers won't allow it because they're afraid of negative press coverage!" They won't allow it because they're humans, with a respect for human life, and a strong desire to protect the lives of children.

If you're bothered by a child, walk away. That's truly the greatest form of realism. Any game where you can murder a child and get off scott free has some serious issues with reality as we know it.

Is it any worse than killing the last daughter of a dying family? After the other daughter died HORRIBLY not too long ago? And their sacred family heirloom stolen at the same time?
Is it any worse than killing an emaciated mentally handicapped orphan beggar who lost EVERYTHING? Living in the burned down house of his parents, and after his sister died not too long ago?
Is it any worse than killing an honest businessman by poisoning his entire meadery stock? So a rich woman can get a few extra septims in a market she already has a monopoly on?
Is it any worse than beating an old man with a mace until he gives his soul to a deadra lord so you would stop? Damning him to torture for eternity?
Is it any worse than turning a man into the Thalmor, who will torture and kill him because he worships Talos? To sign someone's death warrant because of his beliefs, when he did nothing wrong?

Really? You can be a nazi, send someone to torture for eternity, and kill the grown up children to see the elderly cry about their dying family. What part respects human life? Again?

Oh yes these are fine (sarcasm) but its DYING CHILDREN that broke the camel's back? Come on. That is just hypocrisy. If you play a game that ends human life, but have a problem about dying children, you just contradicted yourself. A life is a life. No exceptions.

Really? protecting the lives of children? They are PIXELS. If virtual NPCS are lives, then anyone who played Skyrim is eligible for the fucking death penalty. This also goes for anyone who plays any game that allows you to kill anyone.

Respect for a human life? They sure didn't show it for 99% of the quests that are in the game.

Seriously. Any uproar over virtual child killing is petty and utterly hypocritical.

I like this post, it expresses my thoughts perfectly while avoiding the insulting terms I would've used for the hypocrites preaching from their soapboxes.

 

[The Floating Nose]

Sometimes when I complain about immature content in a game trolls say to me:

"It's fun. Have you got something against fun jerkface?"

Well, in return, I now say:

"If I ever meet you in real life, stay the hell away from my kids, jerkfaces"

You should not want to kill kids. If you've got a problem with those kids, walk away from them. It's a pretty simple bleeding concept that you should have (but probably didn't) learnt in real life. Kind of like on this forum, when trolls tell others:

"If you don't like the content of this post, don't read it"

I know a lot of you might have had trouble with highschool, in which you may have wished you could kill that damn handsome boy who did homework well, played sports and had many friends of the opposite sex, but you didn't do it in real life, and you should be able to get by without doing it in games.

If you're on the 'I just want a realistic representation' bandwagon then I still think you should not want the chance to kill kids. If you want realism you shouldn't be walking around with fire balls, killing giant spiders, or instantly healing a percentage of your hitpoints by consuming a plant or combination of plants you picked up off the ground, or imbibing a red fluid. Maybe you should just imagine that in this world, kids reign supreme as a silent mass of influential, omnicient beings.

EDIT: There turns out to be a third party: People who got pissed off by the mocking kids. "Rise Above" is the first thing to come to mind, but if I ever wanted to get rid of kids I'd want to try do something like using magic to levitate them and deposit them on top of a pillar, or smacking them off map with the DK hammer from super smash bros. Slicing into them with an axe doesn't interest me.

If you're thinking of typing "Yo, urprobablyright, it's a game - has no consequences, should not be a matter of weight", well, I have considered that opinion and am sick of people saying stuff like that to justify games that are just appealing to shock popularity.

There's a term for this in the movie world: "Exploitation movies", movies that are full of ridiculous scenes just for appeal (see: The Human Centipede, A Serbian Film) You guys just want some hideous abandon as far as I concern no reasoning about the fact that it is simulated takes away from the fact that you patronize simulated child abuse.

I agree, there's something really disturbing about gamers who are really really enthusiasts about the idea of killing children in games. Seriously, maybe they are annoying (i didn't play Skyrim yet) but i think there's no reason to want to kill kids in games but come on they are kids. Of course they are annoying, that's how kids act, maybe they annoy you in the game and call you out because that's how their parents raised them kids are kids they are not fully grown yet they don't know the concept of being mean, they are still learning . It's like in Fallout 3 yes, the children were annoying but i found it kind of charming, funny and intelligent that a bunch of kids were able to come together and form some kind of society (Little Lamplight).

Simple solution: If you don't want to kill kids don't download the mod. It's quite simple and those who are defending this gaming to death download it and i hope you will have fun.

 

[Tiggurix]

Giant spiders deserve a smack down, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddX9hnhDS4

I'm sorry. That is my standard response to spider haters.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Anyone who kills any non-hostile NPC in the game has problems and may have homicidal tendencies in real life. Murder is a sick act and should not be condoned.
Funny how ridiculous that sounds. Seriously, there are so many hypocrites in this thread.

 

[Focksb0t]

Everything you do in a game is, in some sense, enacting a fantasy.

Do we want to kill people? Sure we do, on some level, if only to see what it feels like. But in real life, our sense of empathy and social responsibility, as well as visceral reactions to gore and violence, is potent enough to fill us with horror at the idea. The tiny urge is utterly defeated (though evidently not in all cases).

In a game world, we have free reign and are shielded from the more horrible, visceral elements - the flying shards of skull, say. So we find that actually, here we enjoy the exercise of power that killing people - particularly helpless people - brings. Let's not pretend that it's entirely harmless or anything other than base - rather, let's be thankful for the fact that games allow us to confront this dark aspect of ourselves.

But there is a real difference in the psychic makeup of someone who luxuriates in virtual killing, and someone who luxuriates in the virtual killing of *specifically women and children*. It's the targeting aspect that's disturbing. What is it about children, or women, specifically that means you get an extra kick out of exercising your power over them?

This is obvious stuff, people. If you have strong urges to murder children in games, I'm not sure you're right in the head.

 

[xPixelatedx]

To everyone saying that the fans are making a big deal over this:
Bethesda is the one who made a big deal over this.

They had to alter the functions and physics of an otherwise living/breathing world and disrupt immersion to make this happen. I have no desire to kill a child or any random npc for that matter (I am not a fan of GTA btw). You must have a juvenile sense of humor in order to find that amusing for anymore then 5 mins. However, when you go out of your way to say one group of people is off limits because of politics, that really gets under my skin.

The worst part about this? These aren't children at all, they are line of code. Are you seriously suggesting we extend real-world rights and privileges to data that has no self awareness? I also find it very morbid and creepy that some of you are comparing this to an actual crime. You people clearly don't understand the boundaries between fantasy and reality and I believe you are in fact the kind of person they talk about in the news when trying to justify the removal of violence in games. Some of us however are adults and realize this is in fact a fantasy video game, where our actions and the consequences thereof have no real barring in reality we live in and it is very startling when you try and connect the two.

 

[Ilja Lyubimov]

Well demand creates supply, and there ARE people who enjoy killing NPCs in order to feel powerful. So immortal children CONTRADICTS with their unlimited power to kill dummies, which is jist NOT RIGHT!!! Pretty pathetic, but i guess that's still better than a lot of things.

 

[xPixelatedx]

You know why you can't kill kids in Skyrim? Because the devs knew that no matter how they were programmed, you'd want to kill them. If they weren't in the game and were simply mentioned as having existed, you'd want to kill them. The devs knew this. So they made the children assholes just too piss you off. You can't kill the kids simply because: you want to. When you have gotten beyond the want, you can have it.

The worst part about this? These aren't children at all, they are line of code.

Irony dictates such: That is the exact same argument that proves video games cannot be art. I'm not a firm believe of that, but you can't have it both ways. If those kids are line of code and killing them means nothing, then the game cannot be meaningful because it is just lines of code.

Actually no. Just because those aren't real kids and the game is made of code, doesn't mean it can't be meaningful. But being meaningful and being real are two different things. This is why artists can paint rape scenes without being called rapists themselves.

If I made a painting (a bunch of splatters of dried color liquid on a canvas) depicting children being thrown into a meat grinder by someone, I will have done no more wrong then killing a child in a video game. Because it is a piece of art it will have meaning, particularly since we both know it will get negative reactions from people, and that's what art is all about. It's about contemplation, controversy, emotions 'good and bad'. Does a meaningful depiction of child death mean I have done something bad? No, because no matter the emotions I stir or the topics I raise, it still doesn't change the underlying fact. It isn't real.

And on a different note it doesn't really matter if something is made of color splatters, lines of code, clay, legos or a bunch of propane tanks welded together. Anything is art if you create it in visual form from your imagination, and no media is more valid for this then another.

 

[xPixelatedx]

And on a different note it doesn't really matter if something is made of color splatters, lines of code, clay, legos or a bunch of propane tanks welded together. Anything is art if you create it in visual form from your imagination, and no media is more valid for this then another.

No. No. And no. That's the mind set that completely devalues art and makes a card board box into a work of art. That is not hyperbole, a man made a box, out of cardboard, and it sold in an art theater.
Art is expression, art is emotion, art is interpretation. It's idiotic thoughts like the one you've posted that makes Picasso no better than a 2 year old drawing a stick figure with finger paint.

You don't get it both ways. If you can't equate life from a video game due to it being lines of code for one reason, you don't get to change the rules just to fit another reason. People who claim anything can be art are ignorant and have no idea what art is. A pretty picture isn't art. A picture that means something is art.
If killing a child in a game is not real and can't have any real life value, then neither can the imagery of the game.
It is idiotic ideals that try to have it both ways that ruin the medium and art as a whole. Yeah you can make a painting of a rape scene and it doesn't make you a rapist, but unless you have actual issues why the hell are you painting a rape scene? It's not a two way street, you can't have your cake and eat it too. That's a simple fact of life, proven a million times over throughout history.

If killing a child in a game is not real and can't have any real life value, then neither can the imagery of the game? Huh, so any famous work of art featuring violence can't have value? That's a pretty funny way to look at things, I can't even begin to imagine how that makes any sense.

Yeah you can make a painting of a rape scene and it doesn't make you a rapist, but unless you have actual issues why the hell are you painting a rape scene?

If you don't understand why people paint things, then maybe you are the one who doesn't understand art? Just putting that out there. See, the funny thing most people realize there is this thing called subtext, and sometimes a work of art shouldn't be taken or judged in the most literal and ridged manner possible. As far as to why someone would draw/paint/craft horrible scenes, how about to tell a story? Sometimes they do it to send a message about something, or perhaps they are trying to capture the unfavorable nature of society in general. Saying a piece of art has no meaning because you obviously don't understand the concept of subtext, doesn't mean it lacks meaning, it means you don't understand what that meaning is.

 

[Polarity27]

The controversy over this just baffles me. Oh, it's a ton of fun to ram grandma with a car and send her flying, but OMGNOOOOOooooo when it's a kid? IDGI. I mean, I really, really don't. Fantasy =/= reality, and games are full of OTT random wanton murder. To suddenly draw a line in the sand when it's a kid, with all the anti-woman violence and animal killing and elder whacking with cars that's already in games just seems massively hypocritical to me.

(That, and while I've never played Skyrim, there are some kid characters in WoW that I'd love to smack with my evil soap-bubble of arcane doom. Hit them, they fall down, my character chortles, and ten seconds later they respawn and the world goes on as it always has. I just don't see the big deal, but maybe I'm a cruel, heartless person.)

And an ETA, because I'm a hypocrite too-- the anti-woman crap really bothers me in games. For me the more silly, unrealistic, and over-the-top it is, the less it bothers me. Children aren't really in danger from evil spells IRL, you know? Still, drawing the "absolutely do not cross in any way" line at kid-killing still seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Hermaeus Mora]

Here's the deal you nut cases. Obscenity laws are only violated if there is truly no artistic merit to the work in question. As a reader of Ulysses, one of the few pieces of art to make it to the Supreme Court in questions of whether it should be banned, I would, as Bethesda, intentionally include the murder of a child as a quest for the Dark Brotherhood in TES VI, just to bring the player back to the context of what the Dark Brotherhood's quests represent.

Personally, I don't care if someone plays The Elder Scrolls because they like to run around massacring villages all day long. I don't care if they only want to murder children in the game.

The real question here is whether you people are allied with censorship or freedom of expression. Additionally, there isn't anything that would HELP Bethesda's sales more than a Supreme Court case attempting to censor The Elder Scrolls or Fallout.

As for the person who said there is something "wrong" with someone who paints a picture of rape...

Well, here's Michalangelo. He also painted the Sistine Chapel:

http://uploads0.wikipaintings.org/images/michelangelo/leda-and-the-swan.jpg

The notion that "good guys" always have to win is what is destroying American art, confining those in the real world to a fantasy world of chivalry and honorable invasions of other peoples' countries, torture of prisoners of war, hopeless division of culture based on rhetorical tricks categorizing our enemies as pure evil.

Bethesda often steps outside of traditional moral dogma to show gamers a bigger picture of sociological influence of hierarchies and dogma, they are one of the very few companies that have brought video games to a place where they might legitimately be called a high art form.

If I were them, I think the wisest move they could make financially is to include a dark brotherhood quest with the murder of a child in the next game, it might cost them a court case, but there isn't any level of publicity that compares to an attempt to censor by the government. Especially a legitimate piece of art like Bethesda produces. There are people who would side with that.

Nobody tries to censor Medea in schools.

 

[Hermaeus Mora]

"And here I quit this theme; but I shudder at the deed I must do next; for I will slay the children I have borne." - Medea (Euripides)

 

[Quicksilver Wing]

Why don't we just make a mod that makes them less annoying?

 

[crono738]

Thread necromancy ahoy!