Skyrim: Dragonborn Review

Nasrin

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Skyrim: Dragonborn Review

Riding a dragon isn't that great, but the DLC is worth it.

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Fappy

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Good work Nas, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're a fellow Khajiit-player XD

It's interesting to see the perspective on this DLC from someone who hasn't played Morrowind, because it's pretty easy to fall into the trap of comparing this DLC to that of Bloodmoon. Agreed with all points made. Dragonborn is worthy of your money!

Also, nice job showing off all your daedric artifacts in the video >:D
 

Nasrin

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Fappy said:
Good work Nas, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're a fellow Khajiit-player XD

It's interesting to see the perspective on this DLC from someone who hasn't played Morrowind, because it's pretty easy to fall into the trap of comparing this DLC to that of Bloodmoon. Agreed with all points made. Dragonborn is worthy of your money!

Also, nice job showing off all your daedric artifacts in the video >:D
I am an evil mage kitten, after all! Thanks for noticing, it's always great to be complimented for your loot ^_^
 

Legion

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Hmm, maybe I should borrow it from a friend to play it then. I sold my copy as I didn't think I'd end up playing it again seeing I'd done everything else.
 

LG Jargon

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Great job on the review. I'm salivating at the thought of more DLC and more content for Skyrim, though I'll have to be patient since my copy is on the PC. I saw at the bottom of your review that you had said "end-game content". Does this mean that if I play through this DLC, that my game has a definitive end? I haven't seen and done everything I've wanted to yet, so...

Also, all hail the Khajiit! Sneaky sneaky, mrrrrr~ :3
 

Proverbial Jon

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Nov 10, 2009
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I'm glad I waited for this review before purchase. I got burned with that stupid customisable home building in Hearthfire that just turned out to be a load of busy work to end up with identical houses with zero customisation. I had some fun with it but far less than I expected.

It's a real shame that Bethesda never quite deliver when they say they're going to do something. The ability to "ride a dragon" does give one the impression that there will be a certain amount of control to be had over the aforementioned mount. So instead we just get an alternative, albeit fancy, fast travel option. Pssh.

At least now my expectations will be suitably levelled out when I do take the plunge and purchase this DLC. So thanks, Nasrin.
 

Nasrin

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LG Jargon said:
Great job on the review. I'm salivating at the thought of more DLC and more content for Skyrim, though I'll have to be patient since my copy is on the PC. I saw at the bottom of your review that you had said "end-game content". Does this mean that if I play through this DLC, that my game has a definitive end? I haven't seen and done everything I've wanted to yet, so...

Also, all hail the Khajiit! Sneaky sneaky, mrrrrr~ :3
More like it continues issues and quest topics that were at the end of your vanilla Skyrim game :)
 

Ragsnstitches

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Here's to hoping they fix or find a workaround for the issues they had with the PS3 version since this DLC has me excited, more so then the Dawnguard DLC. Otherwise I'll hold off until I can afford a PC to play it on (which could be years away at this rate).
 

Fappy

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LG Jargon said:
Great job on the review. I'm salivating at the thought of more DLC and more content for Skyrim, though I'll have to be patient since my copy is on the PC. I saw at the bottom of your review that you had said "end-game content". Does this mean that if I play through this DLC, that my game has a definitive end? I haven't seen and done everything I've wanted to yet, so...

Also, all hail the Khajiit! Sneaky sneaky, mrrrrr~ :3
Nah, the main quest of the DLC triggers once you are named Dragonborn by the Greybeards. You can play the content whenever you want after that point, but it is generally more challenging than most of the vanilla content so it'd be a good idea to go there no earlier than level 20 or so.
 

Scow2

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Dragon riding's considered the most tantalizing part? I thought the big sell was the return to Morrowind.
 

tmande2nd

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One good thing about being a PC player is that someone is going to come along and tweak Dragon riding.
Do they let you use spells from horseback now though? I hope they do.
 

SajuukKhar

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Proverbial Jon said:
The ability to "ride a dragon" does give one the impression that there will be a certain amount of control to be had over the aforementioned mount.
When you ride on a plane do you control where it goes?
When you ride on a train are you setting the stations it stops at?
When you ride on a boat do you control it?
When you are ride in a car, are you driving it?

The answer to all of those questions is no, because riding is a passive action. Riding is something you do when you are in a mode of transportation, but you yourself are not actively controlling said means of transportation.

Now, had they said "control" a dragon, or "pilot" a dragon, or "steer" a dragon, or "drive" a dragon you would have a valid point, because those are all active actions.
 

Proverbial Jon

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SajuukKhar said:
Proverbial Jon said:
The ability to "ride a dragon" does give one the impression that there will be a certain amount of control to be had over the aforementioned mount.
When you ride on a plane do you control where it goes?
When you ride on a boat do you control it?
when you are ride in a car, are you driving it?
When you ride on a train are you setting the stations it stops as?

The answer to all of those questions is no, because riding is a passive action. Riding is something you do when you are in a mode of transportation, but you yourself are not actively controlling said means of transportation.

Now, had they said "control" a dragon, or "pilot" a dragon, or "steer" a dragon, you would have a valid point.
To counter your argument:

When you ride a horse do you control/steer it?

Why yes, yes you do. In fact I would say a horse is the better comparison in this case because it is a living, breathing creature. It has a mind of its own, its own impulses and reactions but they can be directed and channelled to do what you wish if you know what to do.

As far as the game lore goes I figured the Dragonborn would have this level of control over a dragon. As far as the game's limitations go... well, let's just say I should have known better.
 

SajuukKhar

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Proverbial Jon said:
To counter your argument:

When you ride a horse do you control/steer it?

Why yes, yes you do. In fact I would say a horse is the better comparison in this case because it is a living, breathing creature. It has a mind of its own, its own impulses and reactions but they can be directed and channelled to do what you wish if you know what to do.

As far as the game lore goes I figured the Dragonborn would have this level of control over a dragon. As far as the game's limitations go... well, let's just say I should have known better.
To counter your counter argument when you ride a bull do you control/steer it? no. And I would say that bulls are a more accurate representation of dragons then horses.


Also, controlling dragons in such a manner has nothing to do with game engine limitations, it can easily be done.

As for lore, Dragonborn have never exhibited that level of control over a dragon before, but then again, no other dragonborn has been alive when Dragons were numerous to try.
 

DrunkOnEstus

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SajuukKhar said:
Proverbial Jon said:
The ability to "ride a dragon" does give one the impression that there will be a certain amount of control to be had over the aforementioned mount.
When you ride on a plane do you control where it goes?
When you ride on a train are you setting the stations it stops at?
When you ride on a boat do you control it?
when you are ride in a car, are you driving it?

The answer to all of those questions is no, because riding is a passive action. Riding is something you do when you are in a mode of transportation, but you yourself are not actively controlling said means of transportation.

Now, had they said "control" a dragon, or "pilot" a dragon, or "steer" a dragon, you would have a valid point.
To be fair, everyone says "ride" a horse. I don't think anyone would be saying "buy a horse so you can pilot it, drive it, or steer it". If vanilla Skyrim had you buy horses and you couldn't control them, people would say something about it. There's probably a reason Nasrin had to clarify that in the review, I'm sure it's not clear to everyone due to semantics.
 

SajuukKhar

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DrunkOnEstus said:
To be fair, everyone says "ride" a horse. I don't think anyone would be saying "buy a horse so you can pilot it, drive it, or steer it". If vanilla Skyrim had you buy horses and you couldn't control them, people would say something about it. There's probably a reason Nasrin had to clarify that in the review, I'm sure it's not clear to everyone due to semantics.
What most people fail to take into account is that horses people ride have been tamed, and programed through training to let you control them. Horses are controlled through years of programming from their training. Wild horses do not act in a similar way.

Riding a dragon is more like trying to ride a bull, they are wild animals, and I doubt they particularly care for you using a shout to warp their mind, and while you may be able to get a bull to turn its head in a direction to where its horn hurt your enemies, it still retains the majority over the control of where it goes.
 

Proverbial Jon

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SajuukKhar said:
Proverbial Jon said:
To counter your argument:

When you ride a horse do you control/steer it?

Why yes, yes you do. In fact I would say a horse is the better comparison in this case because it is a living, breathing creature. It has a mind of its own, its own impulses and reactions but they can be directed and channelled to do what you wish if you know what to do.

As far as the game lore goes I figured the Dragonborn would have this level of control over a dragon. As far as the game's limitations go... well, let's just say I should have known better.
To counter your counter argument when you ride a bull do you control/steer it? no. And I would say that bulls are a more accurate representation of dragons then horses.


Also, controlling dragons in such a manner has nothing to do with game engine limitations, it can easily be done.

As for lore, Dragonborn have never exhibited that level of control over a dragon before, but then again, no other dragonborn has been alive when Dragons were numerous to try.
Wow, you're just doing your best to discredit me now aren't you? ^_^

Fine, I shall concede. Clearly my over-active imagination and overall desire to ride/control a dragon got the better of me and generated a false expectation of this particular DLC.
 

SajuukKhar

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Proverbial Jon said:
Wow, you're just doing your best to discredit me now aren't you? ^_^

Fine, I shall concede. Clearly my over-active imagination and overall desire to ride/control a dragon got the better of me and generated a false expectation of this particular DLC.
well I do think Bethesda should have been..... far more clear..... about it.

It was pretty deceptive to anyone not taking a really serious look at what was said.
 

Kelthurin

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"If you were hoping for a spiffy new dragon mount to swap out for that horse of yours, you're going to be disappointed. Although you can bend them to your will and convince them to allow you to mount them, you can't actually direct the dragon's flight path except to fast travel from one location to another."

Good!
Dragon riding is a bloody gimmick, and I'm glad it stops there.
 

Tanis

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Hopefully, when this comes out for PC, the modding community will figure out how to make the dragon mounts better.


What I wouldn't give for a proper Dragonlance mod...
 

Undead Dragon King

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That thumbnail picture for the review reminds me of a certain Dark Elf Corsair captain...



And it just so happens that we go back to the land of the Dunmer in this DLC! Well, ain't that peachy?
 

BehattedWanderer

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Huh. So, in a game known principally for it's multitude of playstyles and free roaming, they add a transportation mechanic that doesn't actually contribute much to the free roaming? I did not see that coming. But I do find it hilarious. I guess it's out so that you don't just breeze through the game, roasting everything in the province atop a dragon?
 

Akexi

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Tanis said:
Hopefully, when this comes out for PC, the modding community will figure out how to make the dragon mounts better.


What I wouldn't give for a proper Dragonlance mod...
Give it a few months after the pc release and there's a good chance the workshop and/or nexus community will deliver.
 

newdarkcloud

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Really good review, but try to speak a little bit slower next time. I could see some people having trouble hearing you when watching the video review.
 

Shjade

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SajuukKhar said:
Riding a dragon is more like trying to ride a bull, they are wild animals, and I doubt they particularly care for you using a shout to warp their mind, and while you may be able to get a bull to turn its head in a direction to where its horn hurt your enemies, it still retains the majority over the control of where it goes.
Dragons are not wild animals, however. They are intelligent, sentient beings with whom you can clearly and directly communicate without any training or special language required. You might have to use a shout to get them on your side, it's not like you'd need to teach them how to respond to spurs; you should be able to say, "Make a left here," and the dragon would understand what you've said and respond appropriately. If you can direct them to attack specific targets, surely you could direct them to do a barrel roll just as easily.

Comparing dragons to inanimate objects or animals that don't comprehend human speech isn't really accurate.

That said, I could care less, I wouldn't want to ride a dragon anyway. I don't even like riding the horses in Skyrim. Better maneuverability just staying on your feet.
 

Saulkar

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Interesting, have you ever reviewed a game previously because up to this point I have not heard your voice?

On topic I will hold off downloading this until someone gets around to making the dragons 100 percent controllable. They toted dragon taming in the trailers, not bartering with a bus driver. They will be duly punished by not having me throw my money at them just yet.
 

Easton Dark

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Li Mu said:
Riding dragons is for losers. The only good dragon is a dead one.
You're never going to strike me down, puny human.

OT:

I was wondering how they were going to make dragon riding work because of Bethesda's horrible dance with texture pop-in. I guess they found a way.
 
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Hopefully when it comes out on the PC a modder makes the dragons controllable.

This DLC didn't interest me with the dragon riding, though. What really interested me was returning to Morrowind (well, Solstheim, but you get the idea). Glad to hear the DLC is good, can't wait for it to come out on PC.
 

Ulquiorra4sama

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Bleh, from the first view of Dragonborn i was iffy about the whole dragon riding since i don't even own a horse in Skyrim... i don't even keep companions with me. The Dunmer are a solitary bunch >_>

Since i was never particularly interested in the mounts anyway it's good to hear that the new area is just as absorbing as Skyrim always was. I'm looking forward to experiencing some of that Morrowind atmosphere since i never actually played the genuine article.
 

Rainboq

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Proverbial Jon said:
SajuukKhar said:
Proverbial Jon said:
The ability to "ride a dragon" does give one the impression that there will be a certain amount of control to be had over the aforementioned mount.
When you ride on a plane do you control where it goes?
When you ride on a boat do you control it?
when you are ride in a car, are you driving it?
When you ride on a train are you setting the stations it stops as?

The answer to all of those questions is no, because riding is a passive action. Riding is something you do when you are in a mode of transportation, but you yourself are not actively controlling said means of transportation.

Now, had they said "control" a dragon, or "pilot" a dragon, or "steer" a dragon, you would have a valid point.
To counter your argument:

When you ride a horse do you control/steer it?

Why yes, yes you do. In fact I would say a horse is the better comparison in this case because it is a living, breathing creature. It has a mind of its own, its own impulses and reactions but they can be directed and channelled to do what you wish if you know what to do.

As far as the game lore goes I figured the Dragonborn would have this level of control over a dragon. As far as the game's limitations go... well, let's just say I should have known better.
Have you ever gotten on a horse? You don't so much control it as you do aim it and cross your fingers. (depending on the horse, of course)
 

Karma168

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Review seemed rather stilted, you can't just read what your text review said, anyone can do that. A vocal video review needs to add something; look at bob or yahtzee, their video pieces are often more expressive than their written articles. Apart from that I cant fault what is (from my POV) your first escapist piece.

OT: Haven't played it and tbh nothing in any of the skyrim DLCs has got me thinking "I have to play this", there's just not enough to make me think this is worth the extra money.
 

DalekJaas

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Only watched the video review and it was not well done. The whole first segment on dragon riding? Tiny part of the DLC that's not that interesting. She fails to mention that its not only Solstheim but the realm of Apocrypha as well. Also the huge number of easter eggs and throw backs to Bloodmoon and Morrowind were ignored as well.

Most people want this DLC for its nostalgia quality (it includes Morrowind's music), and a new Deadric realm is a big deal for a lot of Elder Scrolls players. You don't need to mention that the realm you go to is Apocrypha, but it should still be mentioned.

The reviewer didn't seem interested or even knowledgeable about the DLC. Werebears, Kaarstag, OP werewolf items if you find the pack, heaps of interesting side quests, this DLC has a lot to offer fans of Skyrim, but more so fans of the Elder Scrolls.

I did think the main quest was enjoyable but left something to be desired, wasn't as epic as I had hoped.

EDIT: I see that most of the comments are about dragon riding... Only a small, small part of the DLC people and the reviewer should not have intro'd with it or made such a big deal about it. Not to mention that fully controlled dragon riding would probably be pretty game breaking.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Yep, pretty much what I thought it would be. More Elder Scrolls is all I really needed, the dragon riding just sweetened the deal. That said, I'm not terribly upset that it's as lame as I figured it would be. I have a 360, but own this game for the PC specifically for the modding. That said, I can't wait for this to come out for the PC and see how the modders will improve on Dragon Taming.
 

Nasrin

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I'll get it later when the "Skyrim bug" bites me again, I am pooped out on Skyrim (Not to mention flocked with work)
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Nasrin said:
Skyrim: Dragonborn Review

Riding a dragon isn't that great, but the DLC is worth it.

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Dat Avatar <3

I'm really looking forward to this :3 Just have to wait for a while because PC version :< I thought when they said about the month exclusive thing for xbox they mean the first dlc only...oh well.
 

TheSYLOH

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Soooo...
Anyone want to place bets on how long after PC release, before we get a Bloodmoon total conversion in skyrim?
 

Nasrin

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anyone else laughing that bethesda cant seem to include proper dragon riding that was added as a mod for oblivion?
 

immortalfrieza

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TheSYLOH said:
Soooo...
Anyone want to place bets on how long after PC release, before we get a Bloodmoon total conversion in skyrim?
A week, and fixing dragon riding would done even quicker.

I didn't even know about the dragon riding until I read this review, but I'm disappointed that it isn't basically like riding a horse like it should be.

However, I would prefer it if it wasn't taming a dragon so much as raising one, I'd have a lot more emotional investment in it that way. For instance, there's this mod for New Vegas called Baby Deathclaw Commander that lets you take a Deathclaw egg, hatch it, and then feed the animal (it could use features like petting and playing and such, but I suppose it's good enough) and as you fed it it's strength, armor, and health gradually increases, and I'd like to see something like that with dragons in Skyrim, hell, with anything in Skyrim.
 

SajuukKhar

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immortalfrieza said:
However, I would prefer it if it wasn't taming a dragon so much as raising one, I'd have a lot more emotional investment in it that way. For instance, there's this mod for New Vegas called Baby Deathclaw Commander that lets you take a Deathclaw egg, hatch it, and then feed the animal (it could use features like petting and playing and such, but I suppose it's good enough) and as you fed it it's strength, armor, and health gradually increases, and I'd like to see something like that with dragons in Skyrim, hell, with anything in Skyrim.
Dragons dont reproduce, or even technically age.

They are as they have been since they were created by Akatosh in the dawn time.

there is no such thing as baby dragons.
 

immortalfrieza

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SajuukKhar said:
immortalfrieza said:
However, I would prefer it if it wasn't taming a dragon so much as raising one, I'd have a lot more emotional investment in it that way. For instance, there's this mod for New Vegas called Baby Deathclaw Commander that lets you take a Deathclaw egg, hatch it, and then feed the animal (it could use features like petting and playing and such, but I suppose it's good enough) and as you fed it it's strength, armor, and health gradually increases, and I'd like to see something like that with dragons in Skyrim, hell, with anything in Skyrim.
Dragons dont reproduce, or even technically age.

They are as they have been since they were created by Akatosh in the dawn time.

there is no such thing as baby dragons.
Maybe so, but there are probably ways around that to get baby dragons anyway, like have a mage create a magic that makes dragon eggs. It doesn't make sense that dragons wouldn't reproduce either, especially since they can be permanently killed (only by Dragonborn, but still.) Besides, they don't necessarily need to be genuine dragons anyway, just dragonlike beings.
 

Nasrin

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Saulkar said:
Interesting, have you ever reviewed a game previously because up to this point I have not heard your voice?
I also did this one, Hearthfire, and a couple others.

Moonlight Butterfly said:
Dat Avatar <3
Thanks! It's my kitty.
 

Jynthor

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I'm glad you actually have to force dragons to let you mount them with a shout since I find the idea of creatures wiser than you giving you piggyback rides rather stupid.
Other than the whole Dragon Mount thing this expansion seems good, recently started playing skyrim again in anticipation of this.(I actually still need to finish Dawnguard...) Can't wait for it to come out on PC.
 

DayDark

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I'm actually fine with the whole dragon mounting not being that interactive, I mean the dragons isn't a mount as much as a companion. Of course it would be nice to have some control commands or some such.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Nasrin said:
Saulkar said:
Interesting, have you ever reviewed a game previously because up to this point I have not heard your voice?
I also did this one, Hearthfire, and a couple others.

Moonlight Butterfly said:
Dat Avatar <3
Thanks! It's my kitty.
omg he is gorgeous! I want to snuggle. Is he a Burmese? :3 I enjoyed your spoken review btw you did good :)
 

Nasrin

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Moonlight Butterfly said:
omg he is gorgeous! I want to snuggle. Is he a Burmese? :3 I enjoyed your spoken review btw you did good :)
Thank you so much! He's a bengal. The site is littered with images of him, hehe.
 

Proverbial Jon

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Rainboq said:
Have you ever gotten on a horse? You don't so much control it as you do aim it and cross your fingers. (depending on the horse, of course)
I have learnt to ride a horse, yes. Whereas I didn't have an awful amount of control (riding school horses are a real stubborn bunch) I understand that there is a complex yet subtle language to master if you ever want to have true "control."

Sadly Skyrim horses are nothing like real ones. Sometimes I wish they would spook at something and throw the Dragonborn off, or at least do something other than be a completely empty-headed, bomb-proof lump of digital flesh.
 

Kargathia

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BehattedWanderer said:
Huh. So, in a game known principally for it's multitude of playstyles and free roaming, they add a transportation mechanic that doesn't actually contribute much to the free roaming? I did not see that coming. But I do find it hilarious. I guess it's out so that you don't just breeze through the game, roasting everything in the province atop a dragon?
Judging by how easy it is already to completely break the game, and become an unkillable god of magical destruction... let's just say that line of reasoning would be somewhat weird.
 

Rainboq

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Proverbial Jon said:
Rainboq said:
Have you ever gotten on a horse? You don't so much control it as you do aim it and cross your fingers. (depending on the horse, of course)
I have learnt to ride a horse, yes. Whereas I didn't have an awful amount of control (riding school horses are a real stubborn bunch) I understand that there is a complex yet subtle language to master if you ever want to have true "control."

Sadly Skyrim horses are nothing like real ones. Sometimes I wish they would spook at something and throw the Dragonborn off, or at least do something other than be a completely empty-headed, bomb-proof lump of digital flesh.
To be fair, I rode horses that weren't really broken, but simply put the best game to do horses was Shadow Of the Colossus.
 

k-ossuburb

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The reason the dragons can't be directly controlled is just because the dragons themselves are so unwieldy. Many modders have tried very hard to get the dragon mount and "become dragon" spells to work, but the dragons cannot land where they like, you can only kind of point them in a general area and hope that's where it chooses to settle down due to how the dragons are animated. It's just something beyond the ability of the engine right now, dragons tend to glitch around a lot when you are in direct control of them and the walk cycle is clumsy at the best of times. It's also impossible to control how the dragon's head moves as it seems to just look at whatever the hell is closest and attacking it at that time, or whatever else it wants to look at.

You can find examples of everything I've talked about on Youtube to get a clearer picture of what I mean.

So, can't say I'm disappointed, considering that even some of the best modders out there haven't figured out a solution to these problems. Dragons are just a mess of bugs and you're lucky if you can control one directly without its head sticking out through the tail end of the model or spazzing out into some strange geometry that spikes out into infinity.
 

phoenix352

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seriously now... there are mods that let you do every thing these DLC's offer only much more in depth and they were available months ago to boot.
why on earth would any PC player pay for any of this?
besides some extra quests i see no point in this... even at that there are a ton of great mods for quests and new areas aswell.
 

Baneat

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Jul 18, 2008
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So, guys, I don't have Skyrim installed at the moment since I upgraded the motherboard of my PC. When you say "You can explore Morrowind" what's really meant by that? Just a bit? All of it? Have those fucking pterodactyl things returned to peck off your face?
 

Baneat

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Jul 18, 2008
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Nasrin said:
Moonlight Butterfly said:
omg he is gorgeous! I want to snuggle. Is he a Burmese? :3 I enjoyed your spoken review btw you did good :)
Thank you so much! He's a bengal. The site is littered with images of him, hehe.
Have you made any more gifs? I'm compelled to save cat/kitten pictures whenever I see them.
 

Nasrin

Leviathan
May 30, 2011
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Baneat said:
So, guys, I don't have Skyrim installed at the moment since I upgraded the motherboard of my PC. When you say "You can explore Morrowind" what's really meant by that? Just a bit? All of it? Have those fucking pterodactyl things returned to peck off your face?
You can explore an island that is a part of Morrowind, but you don't by any means have access to the whole thing. And no pterodactyls from what I've seen so far.

As to cat stuff... no new gifs, though I am working on a watercolor painting :)
 

BiscuitTrouser

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May 19, 2008
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SajuukKhar said:
When you ride on a plane do you control where it goes?
When you ride on a train are you setting the stations it stops at?
When you ride on a boat do you control it?
When you are ride in a car, are you driving it?
You should work for Bethesda. Ive never heard DLC about riding dragons sound less attractive than when its feature is analogous to catching the 10:15 to Brumely.

Im actually considering getting the DLC i missed, it does look pretty damn awesome. Other than hearthfire. Why would i want hearthfire... my house is a gigantic flying boat.
 

Smolderin

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Feb 5, 2012
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It has been more than a month since Dragonborn has come out. Where is the PC version!? Throw me a bone Bethesda, you are killing me here.