Skyrim is not an RPG

[Hyper-space]

Oh boy, a thread about RPGS! I hope to god this doesn't end up as a e-peen contest over what constitutes a "true" RPG!

...Oh

Man, if only genres could have sub-sections for different types of games instead slapping one overly-generalizing label on a game that might share certain elements with other games of its genre but differ in terms of design and experience. If only.

 

[Imbechile]

And I quote from the all knowing Wikipedia

In wikipedi Skyrim is labeled like this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game
But why are you exactly quoting from wikipedia since everything is written by other people, who can be wrong.

OT: I'll just copy-paste my old argument:
To me RPG's are where your character skills, and not yours, determine the outcome(Fallout 1, Baldur's gate, Arcanum)
When there is a mix between your and your character's skills those are action-RPG hybrids(Deus ex, System shock 2)
When your skills govern the success then that's an action game with RPG elements(Deus ex Human revolution, Mass Effect)

With that in mind Skyrim is an action game first and foremost, with some RPG elements.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

The idea that a role playing game can't have action elements and has to be 100% based on stats is something that somehow became ingrained into everyone's heads awhile ago and I don't know why they won't shake the idea.
A game doesn't have to be a battle of spreadsheets to be an RPG.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The idea that a role playing game can't have action elements and has to be 100% based on stats is something that somehow became ingrained into everyone's heads awhile ago and I don't know why they won't shake the idea.
A game doesn't have to be a battle of spreadsheets to be an RPG.

I think we can all agree, however, that (since RPG elements are elements initially derived from P&P RPGs) action elements to a game are not RPG elements. There's a continuum between RPGs, ARPGs, and action games with RPG elements. (Of course, reasonable people can and do disagree on where particular games fall in that continuum.)

 

[SajuukKhar]

The term RPG encompasses many sub-groups such as

ARPGs
JRPGs
LaRPs
MMORPGs
P&P RPGs

All of which are equally "true" RPGs as the others.

 

[DoPo]

The idea that a role playing game can't have action elements and has to be 100% based on stats is something that somehow became ingrained into everyone's heads awhile ago and I don't know why they won't shake the idea.
A game doesn't have to be a battle of spreadsheets to be an RPG.

The term RPG encompasses many sub-groups such as

ARPGs
JRPGs
LaRPs
MMORPGs
P&P RPGs

All of which are equally "true" RPGs as the others.

Well that is true. There were other comments above that are correct but I found those two sum it up nicely.

And of course (again) - you're playing a role. In a game. Sort of like what you'd have in a play or a movie. Hence it's a role playing game.

 

[ResonanceGames]

People can never have too many semantics debates. And that is ALL this argument is.

Skyrim shares a common lineage with Ultima Underworld (TES started life as a UU clone) which was the first real attempt to remove the abstractness of previous roleplaying games and instead attempt to place the player into a simulated world. Does that mean Ultima Underworld was not an RPG? It was a debate at that time because the UU games weren't turn-based. Hell, it was probably a debate with Dungeon Master, Rogue, and every other game that has ever shirked the original RPG conventions.

I definitely wouldn't consider Bioware-stlye games any more similar to the games that pioneered the genre (Ultima and Wizardry) than Skyrim is, so I'm not sure why they would be the only ones who get to fly that flag.

The real problem here isn't people who call Skyrim an RPG, it's people who try to use a genre name that was invented before video gaming even existed to pigeonhole a modern media product. It isn't that hard to describe these games, so why try to find one single word with which to do so?

'RPG' is a throwaway term that just loosely defines things that aren't shooters or strategy games. That's all.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Again with this 'your playing a role, so it's an rpg' shit. You playing a role as Kratos in GoW, playing a role as a solder in COD, are these RPGs too ?

And how is an action rpg as 'true' as a crpg when it combines elements from action games ?

That's like saying that mulatto is a pure black person, or pure Caucasian. No, they're half black and half white.

Using that logic Crpgs are not "true" RPGs either because they are different then the ORIGINAL form of roleplaying, which is LaRPing.

 

[Flac00]

Its a genre, genres are general (as their name suggests). RPG's come in many forms, doesn't matter in what way. This game is an RPG just the same as all the other RPG's are. Their isn't some major requirements for it, simply its an RPG because it defines itself as that.

 

[|Sith|Eldarion]

Role Playing Games are defined by one thing:customization. You make a character, you build their stats and personality the way you would want them, and you roleplay as a character of your design. MW3, for instance, isn't a role playing game because A:you're playing as a fixed character with no lines, and B:the only choice is which gun to use. Skyrim is actually more of an RPG than some recent Bioware titles, like ME3 and DA2, because those games tie you down with a name and backstory. You're always Shepard, you're always Hawke, you're always following the same story. You can customize your character face, build, and choices, but the endings are ultimately the same. In Skyrim, you can find out that you're the Dragonborn, or you can drink 30 black briar meads, decapitate a guardsman, leave a cryptic message next to his corpse with iron daggers, and run for the hills to live as an outlaw. It's not just a choice of what your character would do in this situation, it's a choice also of which situation your character would choose to be caught up in.

 

[aisu]

^its totally opposite imo

Running alone in big lonely world, doing generic similar quests in each town (excluding short mediocre main plot), clicking your left mouse button until your finger falls off, having almost no conversations and no choices to make in them... Yea thats what i would hardly call good rpg, but rather sim of some sort or offline mmo.

True rpg like baldurs gate shadows of amn/throne of bhaal or planescape torment or neverwinter nights or even action rpg like witcher emphasizes on immersion into world as protagonist which is achieved by good story and conversations most of all, things skyrim seriously lacks.. Its like nicely painted eggshell, gets boring quickly after some hours when you can see it has nothing deeper to offer but only linear repetitiveness.

 

[DoomBlackDragon]

My feelings on why skyrim is not an rpg. We have to look back at the past rpg games. One things modern rpgs do not have is the rpg alignment system. No longer are you able to call your self neutral, or chaotic. You are forced into the role of Lawful and your stuck being lawlful.

You might wonder why I say this. Well let look at oblivion and what was the biggest change from it predecessors Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind. No it was not the combat and no it was not the travel system. Even though those where big changes. The biggest and by far RPG killing element was the quest system or there for lack of one.

You see older rpg would give not only give you small quest which is what we are used to. The MMO quest system. Their big quest and main story plot would also give you very little info. You ran around talking to the npc and guards interacting with the world. As you would go finding parts of this big quest. You would be giving many choses to do the quest. As you would have to work your way into favore to get info about the quest. There for changing your character. Changing your story. Changing how the world would enteract with you.

This also lead to another big thing. As the story would change. Some games went as far with the role playing aspect as the story being as different as night and day. Giving you many end game bosses to fight. As your alignment would change. Why should I be a bad guy and still fight the same final boss as a good guy and nutral guy. In fact if I am a bad guy. The final boss for the good guy role should be a mid way point as I betray the big bad guy and take his roll as the big bad guy.

The oblivion quest system basicly say. You are the heroe and their only one way to play the game. The Devs way. Skyrim is more of a JRPG cause it base more on the story then it does on you the character. Like how the video says there have been jrpg made in the west and western rpg made in japan. Skyrim is more like the jrpg as you lack freedom to do what you want. It like saying I had FF7 cause I could not become Sephiroth allie because the created did not write that in their story.

This is really what western rpg where made with. Was you being a person of no importance in the begining. Writing your own story. Older elderscrolls games gave you the feel you where in the world. Where you are part of the story. How a simple spin on quest can ruin the rpg element.

Old rpg quest. woman runs up to you."Please good sir my husband is missing. He went with a group of traders to the next city over to trade some goods. He should have been home 2 nights ago. I am word." You reply. "What is your husband name?" Lady reply. "John Smith." You reply. "What city? There 3 near by towns." Lady replys. "Thed." You reply. "ok I am off to Thed to find him."

You go to Thed. Spend some time asking people if they have seen John. You have someone telling you that they seen him in this build. You choose to believe him or not to believe him as you are giving options to talk and intergate him. ((I could go on and on with this one quest only to prove how many ways you could do it in older rpg.))

Skyrim. Same quest lady runs up to you asking for your help. You stop her half way in her speach saying. "I am sorry your husband is dead. As I have a gps tracker in my head that has shown me where his dead body is at. Now give me my reward."

See how boring and lack of rpg elements you have in this game?


For people like who says skyrim is an rpg with the lame agument like.
R = Role, yes I am playing a role in the world of Skyrim.
P = Playing, yep I'm playing it.
G = Game, yep it's a game.

I counter your agument with. CoD it is an RPG. R = Role I am a soldier in the US marines. P = Play I am playing it. G = Game Yes it is a game. Yep CoD is an RPG now.

Boom your agument just blow up in your face. As the video said. CoD and Battlefield is not an rpg. Yet you want to call skyrim an rpg when it nothing more then a sandbox FPS. That right I went there. With out story options. With out reassion of doing something other then the devs say you must.

If skyrim was an RPG. Then you dragon born should have the option to make peace with human and dragon. Maybe become the next high king. Who knows all I know is. Every sence Bethsda stopped with their epic story plot from older elderscroll games. You just can not call their new games rpg. They are open world action games.

 

[DoPo]

I counter your agument with. CoD it is an RPG. R = Role I am a soldier in the US marines. P = Play I am playing it. G = Game Yes it is a game. Yep CoD is an RPG now.

Boom your agument just blow up in your face.

Not derisive of the RPG genres. BOOM, your argument just blow up in your face.

Also

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

How about Bioware games aren't RPGs then? Skyrim's approach to the RPG is much closer to the original RPGs, after all. You have it totally backward. RPGs were not called that because they had characters and stories. RPGs didn't invent characters and stories.

Is Star Trek science fiction? Then how can Star Wars be science fiction, too? And what about Dune? Just because they aren't literally exactly the same doesn't mean they can't belong to the same broad genre.

Skyrim's story isn't the best I've ever seen but it's definitely better than Mass Effect 2 or 3. Not better than the first one, probably. And it was better than Dragon Age: Origins (I haven't played DA2). Bioware's stories rely on cinematic presentation, not good writing.

Generally speaking you name the genre after the things that get grouped together within it. You don't try to work out what things belong to what genres based on the name of the genre. The name is meant to be descriptive of the thing it describes, but it doesn't really matter what the name is. If you called "jazz fusion" "blah blah blah" instead, it wouldn't change the genre one bit.

 

[piinyouri]

This thread just reminded me of how exhausting certain forum posters are to listen to.

Can we just play our games, and enjoy them, and not worry about if others are enjoying them as much, or the same way as you?

Always an asshole quota to fill.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

This thread just reminded me of how exhausting certain forum posters are to listen to.

Can we just play our games, and enjoy them, and not worry about if others are enjoying them as much, or the same way as you?

Always an asshole quota to fill.

It reminded me of this: "If I said that was a tedious question, would you be smart enough to know what I meant?" -Farengar. I wouldn't have mentioned smarts myself, that's just Farengar's way. All joking aside, seeing this question is like having teeth pulled and scraped against chalk board.

 

[WoW Killer]

When did the International Convention for the Definition of Genres in Video Games last get together? I must have missed that.

 

[Weaver]

My kneejerk reaction is to disagree with almost any appeal to Extra Credits.
I would argue Skyrim follows more of the traditional PnP RPG's than Mass Effect does.

 

[Windcaler]

*sniped*

I think Skyrim is an RPG despite your points. Ive been able to roleplay as several characters in it even though you lack a lot of choices for what to say (unlike say Fallout). However you can still make several choice as determined by your individual characters beliefs. For example the whole Parthanax thing. You can kill him, not kill him, or not get involved. My characters made that choice based on their individual philosophies.

For example my Orc warrior was a person that believed in vengance so he went ahead and killed him. However my Argonian archer felt that if Parthanax had to die the blades were the ones that were going to do it, he wasnt going to do their dirty work for them but he didnt feel like the blades were necessarily wrong either. Then there was my Khajit assassin who didnt kill him because he himself was trying to redeem himself in Skyrim and he thought Parthanax had earned his chance to live by aiding mankind.

Now lets be honest about roleplaying in Mass effect and to an extent in Dragon age 2. It essentially comes up to one of three options. The good one, the bad one, and the neutral/funny one. This wasnt the case in earlier bioware titles like Dragon age, knights of the old republic, or Jade Empire. In the more recent Bioware titles, much like skyrim, the options are less to the opportunity to roleplay is also lessened but its still there.

 

[Epona]

You don't need to compare Skyrim to RPG's from other companies to determine that it's not an RPG, just compare it to Morrowind or Oblivion. Skyrim traded attributes and skills for perks. Oh sure, there are still some skills left but they are powerless compared to perks. You could max out a skill and still have less proficiency in that skill than if you got a couple of the perks.