Skyrim Mechanics: How does enemy level scaling work?

[targren]

So I know that baddies get stronger as you do, but how? Is it just more damage and HP, or do they get all the buffs you do (HP/Stamina/Magicka)? I'm trying to figure out when the hell it's 'safe' for me to go to those places "too dangerous for a low level character."

I'm guessing one of those places is the 7000 steps. I was following the primary quest and about level 8, I think, when I met that damn troll. Being a bash-happy, sword-n-board Norn thought-I-was-badass, I had no real magic other than "Flames" which didn't do much but make that damn frost troll giggle madly as he pulled my manly bits off via my nostrils. He brushed off my sneaky arrows like nothing (and they were nothing, since he'd regenned the damage by the time he reached me) and cleaved through my steel armor like it was butter.

After 5 pathetic tries, I just sprinted past all the way to the friggin' tower. Stupid troll.

So what's the trick?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm not an official source by any means, but how it appears to work is that foes are level scaled within a range. Let's say Saber Cats are scaled from 15-25, and Trolls from 25-35, or something like that. That's how it FEELS, while I'm playing. So they're absolutely lethal if you encounter them too early, but pretty cake once you've moved past them.

Exceptions to this are special humanoid enemies...top tier Bandits, Forsworn, Undead, and the like...and Dragons. These scale from 1-50. So at level 50, some high level special Bandit can still end your day with a lucky shot, but you're ROFLstomping Trolls. This is also likely why there was so much howling early on about weak Dragons.

I CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT ANYTHING I AM SAYING IS 100% ACCURATE. But that's how it feels to me, at about 70 hours or so on Expert.

 

[Agayek]

So I know that baddies get stronger as you do, but how? Is it just more damage and HP, or do they get all the buffs you do (HP/Stamina/Magicka)? I'm trying to figure out when the hell it's 'safe' for me to go to those places "too dangerous for a low level character."

I'm guessing one of those places is the 7000 steps. I was following the primary quest and about level 8, I think, when I met that damn troll. Being a bash-happy, sword-n-board Norn thought-I-was-badass, I had no real magic other than "Flames" which didn't do much but make that damn frost troll giggle madly as he pulled my manly bits off via my nostrils. He brushed off my sneaky arrows like nothing (and they were nothing, since he'd regenned the damage by the time he reached me) and cleaved through my steel armor like it was butter.

After 5 pathetic tries, I just sprinted past all the way to the friggin' tower. Stupid troll.

So what's the trick?

It works like New Vegas and Fallout 3 did. Enemies you haven't encountered are leveled to match you, while places you have been through before remains at the level it was when you found it.

As for what particular buffs they get, as far as I can tell it's basically an increase in all three stats (depending on what type of enemy they are) and damage output.

Edit: BloatedGuppy is also more-or-less correct in that there are level "ranges" for mobs. If you're below those, you're going to get your face torn off.

 

[SyphonX]

It scales, but for a while a lot of enemies remain "static" as in they will always be stronger than you just a bit. So some places will feel permanently dangerous for a while, like a troll cave.

I'm 47, and most of the dungeons I go to have scaled a bit, so sometimes it's a fight for my survival. It scales well, and it's not obvious, you just get a feeling of a "harsh world" no matter what level you are. One thing is for certain though, there is definitely no bandit highwaymen sporting Daedric artifacts for armor.

 

[targren]

I'm not an official source by any means, but how it appears to work is that foes are level scaled within a range. Let's say Saber Cats are scaled from 15-25, and Trolls from 25-35, or something like that. That's how it FEELS, while I'm playing. So they're absolutely lethal if you encounter them too early, but pretty cake once you've moved past them.

I see. If I understand what you're saying, by the range, you mean that if my level is < 25, the troll is still going to be Lvl 25 (which would explain the face-rape), but when I'm 26, he'll be 26? If so, that makes some sense (though I think you're giving the sabre cats too much credit in your example XD).

Guess I'll have to mess with the console to start checking some levels... even if you're wrong, though, it's feasible and a good starting point. Thank you.

It works like New Vegas and Fallout 3 did. Enemies you haven't encountered are leveled to match you, while places you have been through before remains at the level it was when you found it.

Never played FO3 or NV, but doesn't that just apply to the underground zones? Most of my problems come about in the outerworld (trolls, spriggans and, oddly enough, bears seem to be the big PITAs, not counting the giants, of course).

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Never played FO3 or NV, but doesn't that just apply to the underground zones? Most of my problems come about in the outerworld (trolls, spriggans and, oddly enough, bears seem to be the big PITAs, not counting the giants, of course).

Whoops, yeah...that's true of Dungeons, but only Dungeons. Dungeons are level scaled to you. But again, this only applies to certain enemies. A Draugr is always a Draugr, they stink. But a Draugr Deathlord is going to be level scaled right to your level.

 

[TheIronRuler]

It scales, but for a while a lot of enemies remain "static" as in they will always be stronger than you just a bit. So some places will feel permanently dangerous for a while, like a troll cave.

I'm 47, and most of the dungeons I go to have scaled a bit, so sometimes it's a fight for my survival. It scales well, and it's not obvious, you just get a feeling of a "harsh world" no matter what level you are. One thing is for certain though, there is definitely no bandit highwaymen sporting Daedric artifacts for armor.

Then do they use magic instead to supplement their handicap in equipment?

 

[Agayek]

Never played FO3 or NV, but doesn't that just apply to the underground zones? Most of my problems come about in the outerworld (trolls, spriggans and, oddly enough, bears seem to be the big PITAs, not counting the giants, of course).

It appears to apply to the overworld as well. My primary experience in that being with Giants. I went out and gave one a hug right after I killed the first dragon (level 5 or so) and it just about one shot me. Then I went back out at level 18-20, found the same giant camp and tore his face off.

When they respawned, they matched my level, but until then they were low.

 

[shelwyn]

I think I'm going to have to start new characters and play skyrim with this in mine now. Great topic.

 

[SyphonX]

Then do they use magic instead to supplement their handicap in equipment?

No, they're simply stronger. I've also noticed that some "tougher" baddies are able to consistently block better than their "lessers".

As for magic, most 'camps' and encounters have mage-specific baddies that will roast you until their magicka runs out.

 

[Azarhac]

The scaling is pretty okay, I had like 35 hours in before the first Dragon so it was Easy (Also obviously playing at Master difficulty with the PC) Mages are the things that actually deal damage but after going resistances and the shield mastery you can easily have 100% resistances and 500+ defenses at 30:ish or sooner if you meta some Smithing quickly.

Though now at 49 with 57 hours everything is starting to seem a bit moot as nothing can handle 779 armor with dual-wield damage of 380 combined with 2/3 of the attack speed shout so probably have to make a RP character and learn how to play in first person again, yes I have played well over 80 hours in 3rd person just because I want to marvel on my own epicness like a vain ************.

Early advice, just power level a bit with restoration and letting people hit you and such hence the first bandits are pathetic at the second lowest difficulty anyways, might have to try and rush main quest with a low character seeing as if a frost till is that hard at level 8 it does sound very fun personally.

And to think more of scaling, Guards are level 25+ always if I reckon hence a fear effect from a beast form can't fear them at any point even if you become one at like level 10 or so, I could use that as a guideline how strong some enemies are.


Also, why are there so FEW enemy types in the game? Like 75% of all enemies are either: Draugs, Bandits, Forsworn, Falmer or Spiders with a few more unique like Trolls and Giants and the big bad Dragons obviously... Ohh and Bears and such but not that many elemental monster beyond Atronachs, Wraiths and summoned creatures...

Well everything aside the Game is freaking fantastic and has INSANELY good performance it's almost impossible to get frustrated by any bugs or anything hence the game pretty much CAN NOT LAG EVER, even with a few year old PC, I mean HOT DAMN!

 

[Bambi On Toast]

I think the scaling works well, but it could be better.

I think everybody gets fucked up by that troll. I think I tried at about lvl15, and I died about 10 times before finally killing him. I wasn't frustrated though, I like a good challenge.

Now I'm lvl49 and still finding some enemies challenging. I did turn the difficulty up though. When you get to the higher levels, you seem to be almost invincible. I'd suggest playing at Expert for lvl40+, otherwise everything feels too easy like Oblivion.

My only real gripe with this system is now almost every dragon I fight is an Ancient Dragon. This is the strongest type of dragon and I believe they are the Lvl50 equivalent. These are now the toughest fights, and even at my level I am dead in one breath unless I block or use healing. While I enjoy a challenge, having this badass on you when you're in the middle of doing something else is not pleasant.

 

[Torrasque]

I'm not an official source by any means, but how it appears to work is that foes are level scaled within a range. Let's say Saber Cats are scaled from 15-25, and Trolls from 25-35, or something like that. That's how it FEELS, while I'm playing. So they're absolutely lethal if you encounter them too early, but pretty cake once you've moved past them.

Exceptions to this are special humanoid enemies...top tier Bandits, Forsworn, Undead, and the like...and Dragons. These scale from 1-50. So at level 50, some high level special Bandit can still end your day with a lucky shot, but you're ROFLstomping Trolls. This is also likely why there was so much howling early on about weak Dragons.

I CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT ANYTHING I AM SAYING IS 100% ACCURATE. But that's how it feels to me, at about 70 hours or so on Expert.

I pretty much agree with this. Thats why Giants are still challenging to me at 33, and Trolls are annoying when it is 2v1. I notice that alot of magic users at my level (the competant ones mind you) really fuck my shit up.
For one quest, I had 3 daedra throwing 100 damage fireballs with a 15 yard radius, and another where a hagraven had impeccible accuracy with her 75 damage fireballs over ~200 yards. She had elevation, but I was sprinting goddamnit =|
Once I get my armor enchanted with some resist magic (or if Reflect spell exists) then I can truly lol @ this game.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I think the scaling works well, but it could be better.

I think everybody gets fucked up by that troll. I think I tried at about lvl15, and I died about 10 times before finally killing him. I wasn't frustrated though, I like a good challenge.

Now I'm lvl49 and still finding some enemies challenging. I did turn the difficulty up though. When you get to the higher levels, you seem to be almost invincible. I'd suggest playing at Expert for lvl40+, otherwise everything feels too easy like Oblivion.

My only real gripe with this system is now almost every dragon I fight is an Ancient Dragon. This is the strongest type of dragon and I believe they are the Lvl50 equivalent. These are now the toughest fights, and even at my level I am dead in one breath unless I block or use healing. While I enjoy a challenge, having this badass on you when you're in the middle of doing something else is not pleasant.

The worst troll encounter I had was outside the Labrynthine. It was immediately after I went to High Hrothgar, so I headed for Morthal. Passing over the Labrynthine,THREE frost trolls attack me. I had trouble fighting the one on 7000 steps, but THREE!?

 

[mikey7339]

I think the scaling works well, but it could be better.

I think everybody gets fucked up by that troll. I think I tried at about lvl15, and I died about 10 times before finally killing him. I wasn't frustrated though, I like a good challenge.

Now I'm lvl49 and still finding some enemies challenging. I did turn the difficulty up though. When you get to the higher levels, you seem to be almost invincible. I'd suggest playing at Expert for lvl40+, otherwise everything feels too easy like Oblivion.

My only real gripe with this system is now almost every dragon I fight is an Ancient Dragon. This is the strongest type of dragon and I believe they are the Lvl50 equivalent. These are now the toughest fights, and even at my level I am dead in one breath unless I block or use healing. While I enjoy a challenge, having this badass on you when you're in the middle of doing something else is not pleasant.

The worst troll encounter I had was outside the Labrynthine. It was immediately after I went to High Hrothgar, so I headed for Morthal. Passing over the Labrynthine,THREE frost trolls attack me. I had trouble fighting the one on 7000 steps, but THREE!?

Trolls get WAY easier later on in...especially with Shadowmere, your dog, companion, and ghost assassin all wailing on them at once.

For some reason, the only enemies I have problems with any more are the dragon priests and humanoid boss NPCs like bandits...for some reason their magic attacks only take 2-3 shots to wipe out my entire party while everything else just doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Parker Shimek]

I guess I play this game way too much. I have 8 guys, two of them over lvl 70, and I always start out the game on master!! Never really thought trolls were too tough to kill, even at like level 5-10 when I was seeing how fast I could beat the main storyline with my Imperial You guys are a bunch of panzies! Haha