Skyrim truly looks outdated and average

[Mad World]

I'm sorry to rant like that, but I'm getting tired of self proclaimed gaming intellectuals, gaming connoisseurs, or whatever, who hate on popular games to sound enlightened on whats good. Where exactly can you find a game of similar scope to Bethesda's work with BETTER AI than what's displayed in skyrim? There isn't one! So why are we bitching like we deserve so much better when something like an elder scrolls game, but with better AI doesn't exist?

They're not all necessarily trying to sound enlightened; a lot of people legitimately have issues with the game.

Yes - I realize that really no one else makes the genre of games that Bethesda makes. But that does not mean they get a free ride to do whatever they want - without expecting any criticism.

In general, most developers prioritize graphics and don't put much effort into A.I. (and other aspects of games). They're Bethesda, yes. Generally, only they make this specific genre of games, yes. But they're no different than any other developer. Relying so heavily on making things pretty and allowing other aspects to suffer looks bad no matter who you are... and people will call you out on it.

Simply put, most developers need to change the way they make games... and Bethesda's no exception.

 

[Phlakes]

le snip

I know, it's almost like it was an alpha build that's been being improved for months. Crazy.

You have an alpha build at the very latest 6 months into development. They are three months away from release, and at least 1 and a 1/2 of those are going to be just production and shipping. AI this bad won't be fixed unless they have a shit tonne of really dedicated programmers. Which they don't. Because this is bethesda we are talking about.

The demo OP was talking about was from E3, which was three months ago, and it probably wasn't their most recent build at the time. In fact, I remember specifically hearing that they added ragdoll physics to the troll being dropped by the dragon (which I assume was just general ragdoll physics, but the most obvious bug was that troll, as demonstrated by OP).

 

[ZeZZZZevy]

It's amazing how many people forgot how old this footage is.

Ah well.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

It is almost as if it was being designed with ancient technology in mind, aka consoles. Not to mention that footage is from an alpha.

 

[octafish]

The less time they spend on polish, the more time they can spend on depth, a trait lacking in most games.

I am hoping they hire Obsidian to create a semi-sequel just like they did with New Vegas, so we may actually get a game with some depth rather than a typical Bethesda game.

 

[Phlakes]

I never said the most important thing was a map system, did I? I used it as a example. The map should be something part of the world. To role play, you must have a realistic way of maps / systems. The menus, if bulking, and look futuristic won't work in a game that takes place in Medieval ages, do they? My point was simple, the menus should fit the lore or setting. Try and be more active on these forums before making a Youtube quality comment without trying to rebuttal my ass.

I like the map. Much more dynamic than looking at a piece of paper, even if it doesn't make sense in universe. And hell, it's Bethesda's lore, they can decide what sticks to it or not.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

I have quite a looooooooong discussion of my opinion on the matter in the spoiler below. Because this is the internet and nobody should really give 1/3 of Zero S**t's, you don't need to really read any of it.

Note: If you quote me or angrily respond to me in a RAGE-fest of nerdgasming while foaming at the mouth and screaming in the manner of a primate without having actually read through or having a valid/calm response to my own rant/opinions, I will be forced to move mountains and part oceans to come and smash box full of rabie infected cats in your face. You'll just be sitting there on your couch watching TV, I'll knock on the door, you'll get up to answer then...BLAMO! FACE FULL OF RABID CATS!

Spoiler

Perhaps I should point out that CONSOLES are outdated...well this generation to be exact. PS3/Xbox360 have been around from 2006 and somewhat earlier. If you consider that over the last 5-7 years of gaming, we've had HUGE advances in processing power and graphic drivers/cards, consoles are WAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind PC gaming in terms of power/appearance.

HOWEVER! due to the fact that about 90% of game sales are on console instead of PC, you need to realize that games are actually being dumbed down to stay compatable with consoles while the technology is still moving forwards. So until the next generation of console appears, we will be stuck with a limited range of gaming possibilities. (Check out "Shadow of the Collosiusssssesseses" or whatever it was called, that game PUSHED the limits of the PS2 for it's time, yet looked like S**T due to how large the world was. Now the problem with most people is that they would rather have Visuals over Gameplay on consoles, therefor if someone made a game that looked as haggard as "Shadoo of teh Colusssez" then we'd most likely get one of the most S**T KICKING, BALLZY TO THE WALLZY, BLOW YOUR MIND! games made in terms of expansivness/gameplay on the new generation of consoles)

Now I am not bashing consoles or praising PC gaming, but when you do step back and take a look at how quickly a electronic can be outdated/outperformed by a newer one in several months, it's actually quite surprising that we haven't had a next gen system released yet that can outperform the old ones.

 

[Hopper9]

If you look at how this differs from the previous entry they have REALLY been looking at the things that flawed the previous entry. Hell, they even went as far as creating a brand new engine for this one. They're working on making their swan song, the game that will follow Skyrim will probably address and fix the nits that everyone has been picking at. Things like fine tuning the physics engine, and refining the A.I. Those things take FOREVER when a new engine is developed.
They actually take a SHITLOAD of more time than writing quest lines, and making gameplay dynamic, immersive, and interesting. Those things are much less labor intensive.
I hope they got more people to record voices, and they actually get the vocalization right, I hated how the character voice would mishmash a bunch of different voices depending on what you spoke to them about. Like when the beggars would be haggard and roughly voiced one second, and posh and articulate the next.
The only improvement I've been hoping for is the level of immersion, that's something that Bethesda has been struggling with, and trying to perfect ever since they started making this type of game. Morrowind did it really well, Oblivion was worse at it, Fallout 3 almost got it perfect, New Vegas getting even closer. (bugginess aside) I think they'll get it right this time.

 

[dyre]

Honestly, I don't expect a thing from Skyrim. I just hope it's easy to mod, so the modders can fix the many problems it will no doubt have.

Yeah, it probably won't be a huge leap forward by any means. New Vegas, anyone? That being said, I love New Vegas. And Oblivion, for that matter. Elder Scrolls/Fallout is just that good. It really is sad that they don't improve much, but Bethesda's formula is good enough in the first place that people will stay play the hell out of it. It'll still be better, in the opinions of many, than anything else this year.

I though New vegas was more of a leap forward than Fallout 3... Story wise, gameplay wise, and balance wise (well, if you consider the fact that New Vegas mainly included things from the earlier games such as damage threshold, then you could say its a step back, but a step back after realise you are about to walk into a dog turd the way you are going). However, it was such a step forward that for many users stability suffered, but you can't really hate someone for trying, thats what CoD fans do.

Considering Fallout 3 made the apocalyptic wasteland and all its items/meshes/characters/etc from scratch, and New Vegas just tacked on a real story and characters, I'd say Fallout 3 made most of that jump. Gameplay wise, New Vegas took a ton of stuff (iron sights, survival, half the weapons, weapon modding, etc) from existing Fallout 3 mods, and balance wise, it's still a mess without modding, though less of a joke than Fallout 3 was. I like New Vegas, but I can only honestly credit it for the story / increased choice, nothing more. A small step forward on the shoulders of giants.

 

[stutheninja]

i honestly would have been thrilled if they just used the oblivion engine to make the new skyrim, just change the map, items, quests, characters, voice actors, monsters, and weather and there you go, fanbase pleased, coffers full, everyone is happy.

as it is im not a huge fan of the streamlining, it just seems like clumsy inventory management and never really having scripted scenes were kinda what gave elder scrolls its charm, ie the shit sandwich argument, without those things that made the game not quite perfect, it lost its charm.

of course i wont know till i play the damn thing, but from the way the demos look, i have mixed feelings, a nice surprise would be excellent but i dont have my hopes up, but the game should live up to the elder scrolls name, that is if they dont try to make it fallout, in which case i need a 9 foot length of rope to hang myself with. (p.s. i like fallout, alot, i just like elder scrolls better)

 

[Aprilgold]

I never said the most important thing was a map system, did I? I used it as a example. The map should be something part of the world. To role play, you must have a realistic way of maps / systems. The menus, if bulking, and look futuristic won't work in a game that takes place in Medieval ages, do they? My point was simple, the menus should fit the lore or setting. Try and be more active on these forums before making a Youtube quality comment without trying to rebuttal my ass.

I like the map. Much more dynamic than looking at a piece of paper, even if it doesn't make sense in universe. And hell, it's Bethesda's lore, they can decide what sticks to it or not.

Agreed, but its not fitting the genre. Which was my point. But either case, it looks cool.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Not only does this skeletal chap have a stupid AI system working against his favour, but he also appears to be some kind of ghost or spirit, the player slashes and stabs with his blade and the guy doesn't seem to move or react at all to this.

That's a Nord temple, so those are probably Draugr. If that's the case, then them not reacting in any way makes sense. Imagine an angry Nord. Now imagine a dead, angry Nord with a taste for human flesh.

Unless you're referring to the lich at the end, which makes even more sense... Considering liches (like other undead) feel no pain

 

[luckycharms8282]

Well what else am I supposed to do until the next fallout game?

Took the words out of my mouth. I'm a Fallout fan, but I might as well occupy myself with a game that has a similar style and runs on a similar engine.

My main disappointment was the town. Oblivion and FO3 (and NV) would piss me off because of their sheer lack of people. They still use an engine that cant handle more than half a dozen AI near the player at any given time. Towns are sparsely populated, and epic battles arent epic when there are only five people per side.

 

[Periodic]

Try and be more active on these forums before making a Youtube quality comment without trying to rebuttal my ass.

Going to let that slide because I'm deaf to bullshit.

. . .In a RPG, the top three things that need to be accomplished is. . .-A menu system that sticks to the lore. Now, basically, your map system should be a piece of parchement, not zooming out to the far sky, for gods sake. The leveling system is more lore friendly, you actually understand how its lore friendly because it takes place in the stars.
But the Map System is bad, hell, they could zoom out, the world fades into a piece of large parchement, then you scroll across it like its a giant map, will that happen, no.

Not incorrect context. You stated that "a menu system that sticks to the lore" is among "the top three things that needs to be accomplished" in an RPG. Which is lunacy. A game's menu system is a framing device. It is there to serve functions necessary to the game separate from the actual gameplay. To suggest that a menu system that ,"fits the lore"(by which you actually mean,"fits the aesthetic") is one of the most vitally important elements of an RPG, is utterly ridiculous. It's a minor quibble, a nit-pick, that you have blown up to immense proportions.

 

[burningdragoon]

Counterpoint: AI is really, fucking difficult to program. DarkRyter seems to understand, see:

Maybe you try coding a game engine to have perfect AI and physics. Guess what? It's really, really, really hard. In fact, there's not a game in the world that does it completely right.

public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Perhaps you should reevaluate your standards based on how you feel toward the game, instead of being upset with other's reaction towards it.");
}

 

[The_Ghost_Ninja]

OHHHHH SNAP^

But seriously, I saw nothing wrong in those videos, just some good old dungeon crawling with exceptional graphics, now before you guys say "But it's out tomorrow!" Well a lot of the clips that make up those videos came out during E3, so y'know they are quite old.

As for the Nord crypt place, I saw nothing wrong, did the enemies attack when they knew where the PC was? Check, Would you be able to lock on to a stealthy assailant instantly after your nice calm conversation was interrupted by flying arrows? Or would you instantly know they were behind you based on the trajectory and dive across the fire to grab a sword and shield to tottally own da noob... Shit guys think about realism, not how other games would handle it. This isn't Veteran difficulty Elder scrolls....

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah. Whatever the hell. We've gone from nitpicking every new release to death to nitpicking games that haven't even come out yet. I imagine I'm going to play it, and I imagine it will be buggy and less than perfect, and I imagine I'll have a great old time all the same.

I never really understood this stampede to be the first to declare that you don't like something popular. Congratulations at your inability to take pleasure in something that makes a lot of people perfectly happy. Me, I wish I liked everything. I'm sad when I don't like things. I'm especially sad when I don't like something popular, because I assume I'm missing out. All not liking things has ever accomplished for me is to deny me pleasure. Woot woot. Where can I sign up to not like the next thing?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Can I ask what the OP seems to think makes a Modern RPG, if everything about Skyrim is so dated?

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Outdated? Are you fucking mad?
Those graphics are smooth as hell, I want to rub them all over my face.

And yes, I did read your OP. You're nitpicking to an embarrassing level, to me it just seems like you've decided you don't like this game from the get-go so now you're bringing up any reason to dislike it. But hey, what do I know. I haven't ever seen the whole of you, just a small window of example on the internet. HINT HINT.

 

[chaos order]

Bethesda's one of the most overrated, worthless, hack developers in the industry. No other company can release buggy, barely finished, horribly written, and terribly designed titles like Bethesda and repeatedly get away with it. If any other studio pulled the shit they did, then they'd go out of business. Bethesda just, unfortunately, has a legion of sycophants who defend their every move, and praise them like some false prophet.

Again, people defend Bethesda because they're really the only major developers that makes those kinds of games. If another company could make those kinds of open world RPG's well enough to challenge them, then Bethesda would be forced to improve their games or die. There really isn't an alternative though, which is why I think people are more willing to accept the many, many flaws their games.

Frankly, while I still like some of their games (Okay, I like Fallout 3 despite being incredibly shitty in the story and overall stability department and Morrowind is pretty good. I maintain that unmodded Oblivion is absolutely broken though.) frankly the amount of praise Bethesda gets is ridiculous sometimes. They can put out the buggiest games on release, yet people ignore that and give their games near perfect scores, when other games get lambasted for being buggy. It's a double-standard.

now i just dont think that its because bethesda is the only one making these types of games, but more on how complicated the game is. i mean you can climb the highest mountain or kill everyone if your feeling sadistic. there's just SOOO many ways to go about doing things in these types of games that they cant really approach EVERY situation in every way. Now i havent played too many bethesda games seeing as my experience is limited to oblivion,fallout3, and new vegas(but that was made by obsidian no?) and i have yet to run into any game breaking bugs. i have run into small stuff but nothing that bothered me.

i think that this is the main reason critics and what have you are more inclined to forgive bugs in these games because it would take WAY TOO LONG to de bug.

and OP, name your favorite game and anyone here can nitpick it to death