Skyrim vs Fallout 3 GO!

[GloatingSwine]

New Vegas.

Because it's Fallout 3 without the completely broken challenge curve and a way better plot. It's also basically the poster child for Really Good DLC.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

Not sure which game I would call better. That said... I did beat Fallout 3. I can't say I bothered to do the same for Skyrim.

I'd rather play New Vegas than either of 'em.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Thanks for helping prove my point. Those are purely superficial changes that doesn't change anything that doesn't change your experience in the game at all. A similar questline in new Vegas of similar length? Deciding the fate of all the different factions in the Mojave and deciding who shows up at the battle for the Hoover Dam. You overcome long existing feuds between your chosen side and factions like the Brotherhood of Steel, the Khans, the Enclave, and others. Sounds a lot more important and world changing than real estate management, doesn't it?

YET none of those things changes ANYTHING in the world until the last 5 minutes of the game.

Skyrim's changes are to a lesser degree but you actually get to see them outside of a short and easy battle and a couple of slides in the epilogue.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Thanks for helping prove my point. Those are purely superficial changes that doesn't change anything that doesn't change your experience in the game at all. A similar questline in new Vegas of similar length? Deciding the fate of all the different factions in the Mojave and deciding who shows up at the battle for the Hoover Dam. You overcome long existing feuds between your chosen side and factions like the Brotherhood of Steel, the Khans, the Enclave, and others. Sounds a lot more important and world changing than real estate management, doesn't it?

YET none of those things changes ANYTHING in the world until the last 5 minutes of the game.

Skyrim's changes are to a lesser degree but you actually get to see them outside of a short and easy battle and a couple of slides in the epilogue.

But at least something happens. There's a sense of urgency and accomplishment when you're searching for allies in the Mojave. You really don't get anything like that in Skyrim because no one reacts to what you've done or what you're doing. Everyone just keeps walking around and shouting their dialogue into your direction. The game builds up the Civil War as this big world changing event, but people talk about it in the same voice as they would about any other local news. The whole game is just building you up for the worst case of blue balls you could get from a game. In the end, it's good the Battle for the Hoover Dam was the climax because you aren't left wondering why nothing changed after you've supposedly saved the Mojave.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

Can I choose neither? Bethesda games make me throw up in my mouth. I'm aware that MANY people love Bethesda, especially around these parts, but for the life of me I cannot discern why. Big, empty, boring worlds filled with boring dead characters and probably the worst RPG gameplay/combat I have ever experienced. Don't even have to mention their track record for gamebreaking bugs. No thank you.

 

[SajuukKhar]

But at least something happens. There's a sense of urgency and accomplishment when you're searching for allies in the Mojave. You really don't get anything like that in Skyrim because no one reacts to what you've done or what you're doing. Everyone just keeps walking around and shouting their dialogue into your direction. The game builds up the Civil War as this big world changing event, but people talk about it in the same voice as they would about any other local news. The whole game is just building you up for the worst case of blue balls you could get from a game. In the end, it's good the Battle for the Hoover Dam was the climax because you aren't left wondering why nothing changed after you've supposedly saved the Mojave.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Guard
Dialog added by doing quests
34 - Main quest
02 - Bards college
10 - College of Winterhold
16 - Companions
27 - Dark Brotherhood
03 - Destroying the Dark Brotherhood
13 - Thieves guild
25 - Other Quests
130 - Total

That is dialog added to GUARDS ALONE for doing quests.

Furthermore that isn't counting dialog added by race, gender, skills, armor/weapons, the civil war, or daedric quests. Nor is it taking into account all the people that make mention of who took over what city and the Jarls. Nor is it taking into account all the people who will thank you for finishing whatever task they gave you.

To say skyrim and its people dont react to thing you do is outright false.

There's also like 33 dialog quibs were guards tell you about places and warn you to stay away due to dangers. Showing that they actually know what happens in the palces of skyrim and are nice enough to tell you NOT to go there..... unlike the people of New Vegas who apparently dont think its wise to warn people where dangerous shit is.
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.
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Also OFC most people talk about it in the same way as they talk about anything else, MOST PEOPLE DONT CARE, they make that abundantly clear 95% of people only want it to END. Most people dont give a shit, because it is unimportant to them.

There really wasn't any sort of big buildup for the civil war to be a giant gamchanger. It was always stated by most people as "ehh shits happening one or or the other, dont matter to me who wins" things.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Guard
Dialog added by doing quests
34 - Main quest
02 - Bards college
10 - College of Winterhold
16 - Companions
27 - Dark Brotherhood
03 - Destroying the Dark Brotherhood
13 - Thieves guild
25 - Other Quests
130 - Total

That is dialog added to GUARDS ALONE for doing quests.

Furthermore that isn't counting dialog added by race, gender, skills, armor/weapons, the civil war, or daedric quests. Nor is it taking into account all the people that make mention of who took over what city and the Jarls. Nor is it taking into account all the people who will thank you for finishing whatever task they gave you.

To say skyrim and its people dont react to thing you do is outright false.

There's also like 33 dialog quibs were guards tell you about places and warn you to stay away due to dangers. Showing that they actually know what happens in the palces of skyrim and are nice enough to tell you NOT to go there..... unlike the people of New Vegas who apparently dont think its wise to warn people where dangerous shit is.
.
.
.
Also OFC most people talk about it in the same way as they talk about anything else, MOST PEOPLE DONT CARE, they make that abundantly clear 95% of people only want it to END. Most people dont give a shit, because it is unimportant to them.

There really wasn't any sort of big buildup for the civil war to be a giant gamchanger. It was always stated by most people as "ehh shits happening one or or the other, dont matter to me who wins" things.

So what you're saying is that your reward for hours of questing is that you unlock new lines of ambient dialogue that gets shouted at you while you walk around town? Like I said, it's all purely superficial. And did you never have someone tell you not to go near Quarry Junction? It's full of fucking Deathclaws. Sounds like a warning to me. How is the Civil War not important? It's like the very first thing you learn about. It's in the Prologue for god's sake.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

The choices in Skyrim are a farce, nothing you do changes anything in the world.

Except the Civil War quest-line alone results in
-4-6 forts, previously occupied by bandits/witches/vampires/etc. etc., being taken over by soldiers of whichever faction you join, who then patrol the roads in the immediate area.
-The entirety of, at least, 4 town's guards being replaced by soldiers from whatever faction you join.
-The Jarl's of, again at least, 4 cities getting replaced.
-The people of said town making comments about who won.

Thanks for helping prove my point. Those are purely superficial changes that doesn't change anything that doesn't change your experience in the game at all. A similar questline in new Vegas of similar length? Deciding the fate of all the different factions in the Mojave and deciding who shows up at the battle for the Hoover Dam. You overcome long existing feuds between your chosen side and factions like the Brotherhood of Steel, the Khans, the Enclave, and others. Sounds a lot more important and world changing than real estate management, doesn't it?

Wait, what? You just said that nothing changes in the world, he clearly stated changes that happens, experience is irrelevant since its subjective, but he did prove that change does happen in the world. You clearly are just pulling stuff out of your own ass right now.

Also, if whatever side wins in the civil war, that means they rule Skyrim now, it's reflected in the world both in game and in the future. Different Jarls rule, and with change in management different things will happen in every city not sided with the Empire/Stormcloaks and the Empire/Stormcloaks will eventually fight the Dominion. So its clearly not just superficial. New Vegas wasn't even able to reflect that, sure you fight a battle on who'll rule New Vegas, but after that, a slideshow happens and the credits just roll, not even showing the results of the war in the game itself, meaning outside the slideshow.

As much as I like NV over Skyrim, I just don't like seeing people pulling excuses out of their asses when their argument gets disproved.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

The choices in Skyrim are a farce, nothing you do changes anything in the world.

Except the Civil War quest-line alone results in
-4-6 forts, previously occupied by bandits/witches/vampires/etc. etc., being taken over by soldiers of whichever faction you join, who then patrol the roads in the immediate area.
-The entirety of, at least, 4 town's guards being replaced by soldiers from whatever faction you join.
-The Jarl's of, again at least, 4 cities getting replaced.
-The people of said town making comments about who won.

Thanks for helping prove my point. Those are purely superficial changes that doesn't change anything that doesn't change your experience in the game at all. A similar questline in new Vegas of similar length? Deciding the fate of all the different factions in the Mojave and deciding who shows up at the battle for the Hoover Dam. You overcome long existing feuds between your chosen side and factions like the Brotherhood of Steel, the Khans, the Enclave, and others. Sounds a lot more important and world changing than real estate management, doesn't it?

Wait, what? You just said that nothing changes in the world, he clearly stated changes that happens, experience is irrelevant since its subjective, but he did prove that change does happen in the world. You clearly are just pulling stuff out of your own ass right now.

Also, if whatever side wins in the civil war, that means they rule Skyrim now, it's reflected in the world both in game and in the future. Different Jarls rule, and with change in management different things will happen in every city not sided with the Empire/Stormcloaks and the Empire/Stormcloaks will eventually fight the Dominion. So its clearly not just superficial. New Vegas wasn't even able to reflect that, sure you fight a battle on who'll rule New Vegas, but after that, a slideshow happens and the credits just roll, not even showing the results of the war in the game itself, meaning outside the slideshow.

As much as I like NV over Skyrim, I just don't like seeing people pulling excuses out of their asses when their argument gets disproved.

Your choices are a farce. The world keeps going as though you had never done anything. You don't get any new quests, the world doesn't shift in any significant way, and you're left with a sense that you wasted your time. You say you're actions choose who rules Skyrim, but how is that reflected in the world? A couple boring people switch houses? So you go through an extremely long quest line to play realtor? Oh, but you get to HEAR about what happens, right? Your reward for "deciding the fate of Skyrim" is unlocking some new ambient dialogue the town guards will shout at you as you're walking through town. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem very fulfilling to me. That's the problem with the Civil War plot in Skyrim. It's all build up with zero satisfying payoff. People discuss the shifting power of their homeland, that we're told these people would die for, in the same tone as they do when they're mocking you for looking weak, then move right into commending you for being the Harbinger of the Companions without so much as a breath in between. That sounds pretty goddamn superficial to me.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

Your choices are a farce. The world keeps going as though you had never done anything. You don't get any new quests, the world doesn't shift in any significant way, and you're left with a sense that you wasted your time. You say you're actions choose who rules Skyrim, but how is that reflected in the world? A couple boring people switch houses? So you go through an extremely long quest line to play realtor? Oh, but you get to HEAR about what happens, right? Your reward for "deciding the fate of Skyrim" is unlocking some new ambient dialogue the town guards will shout at you as you're walking through town. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem very fulfilling to me. That's the problem with the Civil War plot in Skyrim. It's all build up with zero satisfying payoff. People discuss the shifting power of their homeland, that we're told these people would die for, in the same tone as they do when they're mocking you for looking weak, then move right into commending you for being the Harbinger of the Companions without so much as a breath in between. That sounds pretty goddamn superficial to me.

And yet you use New Vegas as an example of where your choice does matter? Aside from a freakin slideshow please tell me what happens IN GAME after your choice in the 4 way conquest. What's that? Nothing? I thought so.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Your choices are a farce. The world keeps going as though you had never done anything. You don't get any new quests, the world doesn't shift in any significant way, and you're left with a sense that you wasted your time. You say you're actions choose who rules Skyrim, but how is that reflected in the world? A couple boring people switch houses? So you go through an extremely long quest line to play realtor? Oh, but you get to HEAR about what happens, right? Your reward for "deciding the fate of Skyrim" is unlocking some new ambient dialogue the town guards will shout at you as you're walking through town. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem very fulfilling to me. That's the problem with the Civil War plot in Skyrim. It's all build up with zero satisfying payoff. People discuss the shifting power of their homeland, that we're told these people would die for, in the same tone as they do when they're mocking you for looking weak, then move right into commending you for being the Harbinger of the Companions without so much as a breath in between. That sounds pretty goddamn superficial to me.

And yet you use New Vegas as an example of where your choice does matter? Aside from a freakin slideshow please tell me what happens IN GAME after your choice in the 4 way conquest. What's that? Nothing? I thought so.

That's why it's called a "climax". It's where the story ends. It's called story structure, which is something else Skyrim is lacking. Where New Vegas builds up the Main Quest into an exciting climactic battle at the Hoover Dam, Skyrim has 3 over arching world changing plots all fighting for the spotlight, none of which pan out in a significant way because the game doesn't have a climax.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

That's why it's called a "climax". It's where the story ends. It's called story structure, which is something else Skyrim is lacking. Where New Vegas builds up the Main Quest into an exciting climactic battle at the Hoover Dam, Skyrim has 3 over arching world changing plots all fighting for the spotlight, none of which pan out in a significant way because the game doesn't have a climax.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about choices, I see that I've disproved your point about New Vegas' choices mattering that you've decided to jump ship and complain about your opinion of Skyrim's lack of "climax". Next time, you might want to make your Scapegoats a lot less obvious Mr. Ass Pull.

And FYI, Skyrim did have one when you sieged Windhelm/Solitude, as well as when you go into Sovngarde. Thing is though, climaxes are also a subjective thing. What your climax be for you and others, may be a buggy mess to me and to everyone else where game likes to bug out, and as much as I love Obsidian's work and forgive them due to Bethesda's constraints, the game bugged out on this so called climax and completely turned it into a laughing mess, and therefore cannot see your view on this so called climax of New Vegas.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

That's why it's called a "climax". It's where the story ends. It's called story structure, which is something else Skyrim is lacking. Where New Vegas builds up the Main Quest into an exciting climactic battle at the Hoover Dam, Skyrim has 3 over arching world changing plots all fighting for the spotlight, none of which pan out in a significant way because the game doesn't have a climax.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about choices, I see that I've disproved your point about New Vegas' choices mattering that you've decided to jump ship and complain about your opinion of Skyrim's lack of "climax". Next time, you might want to make your Scapegoats a lot less obvious Mr. Ass Pull.

And FYI, Skyrim did have one when you sieged Windhelm/Solitude, as well as when you go into Sovngarde. Thing is though, climaxes are also a subjective thing. What your climax be for you and others, may be a buggy mess to me and to everyone else where game likes to bug out, and as much as I love Obsidian's work and forgive them due to Bethesda's constraints, the game bugged out on this so called climax and completely turned it into a laughing mess, and therefore cannot see your view on this so called climax of New Vegas.

Your choices matter because you're running through the Wasteland deciding who is going to survive after the battle for the Hoover Dam. Don't like the Khans? You have them killed. Didn't like the greeting you got from the Brotherhood of Steel when you met them? You rig their shit to explode. Don't like House's stupid face? Might as well get rid of him too. Those are real choices because your actions have consequences. Even before the battle for the Dam, you have decisions that can change everything. Did you overthrow the current Elder of the Brotherhood? Well I hope you weren't hoping to have them help out the NCR, because the new guy hates the NCR with a passion. That's a consequence. What you have done, the choice you made, has had a real affect on future events. Put a new Jarl on the throne? No big deal, you can get the same quests the other guy would have given with zero consequence.

And I'd suggest you try to be a little less insulting if you want to be taken seriously. You sound like a child.

 

[Thatrocketeer]

Your choices matter because you're running through the Wasteland deciding who is going to survive after the battle for the Hoover Dam. Don't like the Khans? You have them killed. Didn't like the greeting you got from the Brotherhood of Steel when you met them? You rig their shit to explode. Don't like House's stupid face? Might as well get rid of him too. Those are real choices because your actions have consequences. Even before the battle for the Dam, you have decisions that can change everything. Did you overthrow the current Elder of the Brotherhood? Well I hope you weren't hoping to have them help out the NCR, because the new guy hates the NCR with a passion. That's a consequence. What you have done, the choice you made, has had a real affect on future events. Put a new Jarl on the throne? No big deal, you can get the same quests the other guy would have given with zero consequence.

And I'd suggest you try to be a little less insulting if you want to be taken seriously. You sound like a child.

Oh, so you just kill boring people I don't care about and they don't appear anymore in game? And random people just say some dialogue about what you've done? Hmmm. Sounds familiar. What's that? It's not? What do you mean after the end of the game you can't see anything that your decision influenced because there's nothing after the slideshow? You mean your choices never really mattered at all and nothing changed in the world after all? Except some people are just gone/replaced and dialogue are just spouted out?

You can color your argument all you want, but the things you said about Skyrim being hollow can be said the same about FO3 and NV. Except visual changes are more apparent in Skyrim than in NV. But, let's face it. Bethesda's engines create an expansively huge world, a world where choices are really hollow, not even Obsidian can fix things like that.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Did you actually play New Vegas? You have basically 4 different main quests, one for each faction.

And yet none of those main quests actually does anything to the actual world until the last 5 minutes

The factions you make alliances with dont ever start talking to each-other, only the BoS sends a representative to the NCR, everyone just goes about their day, doing the exact same things, and saying the exact same things they did before.

There's no NCR soldiers who go to the follower's fort and have some dialog about managing supplies, there's no Securaton that goes to the boomers to relay the will of House.

No one does anything to show they are part of an alliance at all until everyone just magically shows up at the end.

 

[Anon]

Gotta say, I enjoyed Fallout 3 far more than I've enjoyed Skyrim. Personally, the land of Skyrim just doesn't captivate me like The Capital Wasteland did. Also, I feel that the quests and main story lines in Fallout 3 were far more entertaining. Skyrim's main quest lines, Alduin and Civil War, simply didn't live up to what they could have been. The Civil War quest line especially, seeing as it was essentially comprised of going to Fort A, killing everyone, and going back to a camp only to get orders to do the same thing to Fort B. In a story line focused around CIVIL WAR, there are a lot of angles Bethesda could have taken that would have made the war far more captivating. Another thing that really didn't work for me was how everything in Skyrim looks. Sure there are some variations and I guess it makes sense to have most of the landmass have the same sort of aesthetic, but I just didn't like the different shades of grey and brown that make up the color palette.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Aaaaah Fallout 3, what a game.

I had a love affair with that handsome piece of data filled plastic. It's sick really, a catastrophic post-nuke world and throughout the game I kept thinking how cool would it be to be a part of that world? Interesting.

Could it be that our normal dimension is boring now to us? The fact that there are so few "good" people left in the world of fallout means that everyone with a heart of gold can be a hero. The mix of a great decade and era, fueled with fantasy, Sci-fi and a bleak backdrop. A setting like this makes you see the beauty in everything that there is beauty to be had as it is a dieing notion is such a world.

The mix of great RPG mechanics, interesting factions and characters, gorgeous design, fun filled action. You can play it both fast paced shooter or methodical RPG. An intereting story that unlike being "thrown into as a random character", you are BORN into this world. That fact only makes the adventure feel that more important to you as a gamer. It's rated R so it doesn't feel like anything is held back, the fact that a character can call me fuckhead just makes my smile that much wider.

Really what can you not brag on about Fallout 3? Oh yeah I got stuck in a rock once, but other than that, golden. Skyrim is fun too!

That was my general consensus too. I remember when i first found Oasis i was just like "Oh my god! Grass!" those moments really made me appreciate the game lol. I really like Skyrim though but its no Fallout 3

 

[Jynthor]

I wonder what Miracle of Sound's answer would be. He really seems to love both games...

About the choices discussion, I don't really consider the ones in Skyrim to matter in any way.
For example you take over a Hold for the faction of your choice, the guards will change colours, there will be a new jarl who fills the exact same purpose and will say the exact same stuff as the last, and some NPC's will have some new lines. But in the end it doesn't matter in any way, it's a false choice, the game let's you think you made some decision, but you didn't.

I'm going to make a terrible example, Say you have two holds, and suddenly a diplomatic dragon flies up to you and says "We will negotiate a truce if you sacrifice one hold." Then you get to choose between the two hold. If you choose one of the holds, the other hold will be destroyed, there will be some quests related to that etc. Choices and consequences, that's what we want.

FO3 didn't have any real choices and consequences either as far as I know, unless you count Megaton. Now that I've written thsi down I realize it has almost nothing to do with the actual topic. Eh, I think Skyrim is better in some ways but it does have its flaws, I think New Vegas is much better than FO3(Although it took me a long time to get used to the western style) And I'd be lost if I had to choose between NV and Skyrim. In the end TES is closer to my heart though and I'd probably end up choosing it.

 

[TorqueConverter]

Fallout 3.

I hate elves, wizzards, dragons and all that fantasy horseshit. Skyrim is chalk full of "fantasy". My fantasy is when RPGs knock it off with the dwarfs, spells and all that other nonsense.

FO3 is a terrible fallout game but damn good action RPG. FO3 won my heart by offering me freedom. The moment I stepped outside that vault I kicked the story in the balls and walked miles in the opposite direction. Very few games allow me to do this. A game that is able to sever the bond of the ball and chain that is story and provide with with a interesting world to explore earns my praise.

It's not that I dislike story in my games but that story driven gameplay is often forcing me to do things I do not want to do. FO3 allowed me to escape into its destroyed world and do as I please without nagging me to become some sort of hero or romance some space monsters.

 

[likalaruku]

Sounds like you want me to compare apples to oranges.