'Slut' Parade

[conflictofinterests]

I really love how people keep on posting the same "but it's a perfectly reasonable bit of advice to lower your chances of getting raped!" argument over and over again, despite several people having already posted studies proving that this "fact" is grade A bullshit. Seriously, guys, how provocatively you are dressed has nothing to do with how likely you are to get raped. As has been pointed out again and again, most women are raped by men whom they know and trust. How many times do we have to say it to get it through your thick skulls!?

By your logic, any woman with male friends is just begging to get raped.

Oh no, there are plenty of acquaintance and familial rape cases too. A woman ought not go any place where any man might be. Oh wait! Women can rape too! I should become a hermit and never go near another human being again!

 

[Kahunaburger]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Not really, no. Anyway, I'm done in this thread.

Wow. Just, wow.

So you're trying to cover the numbers you made up by making up more numbers? Wow. Just, wow.

Also, the fact that you appear to be conflating arousal and orgasm, combined with other assumptions you appear to be making about the possibility of orgasm through penetrative-only sex, indicates to me that you don't have a lot of personal experience re: female orgasms.

 

[Steppin Razor]

Note that a range of 5-21% is rather large. Averaging it out across all the various studies would result in a statistic more around the 10-15% mark.

Not after you factor in that (according to what I've read on the topic) most psychologists believe the real number is likely double what the victims admit to because this is something most people would be ashamed to admit to, even in an anonymous survey.

10-15% = 12.5%. Doubled, that's 25%, which coincidentally enough was the (estimated "real") number in the other study I read.

The per centage of rape victims who have orgasmed is almost certain to be higher than the reported amount, but source your claim that it is double or keep quiet. Unsubstantiated claims results in you looking like you're full of shit.

Edit
Also, the evidence provided by the Journal of Forensic Medicine doesn't state what amount of people orgasmed and what amount expererienced "significant sexual arousal". So again, the per centage has to be lowered to factor in the cases where orgasms did not happen.

Wow. Just, wow.

Allow me to put this back at you - wow. Just, wow. It's called the autonomous nervous sytem. Look it up, then you can comment on orgasms.

 

[zoulza]

Come on now, anyone claiming that a woman orgasming during rape is proof that she enjoyed it is obviously just a troll. Let it go, you guys.

 

[agrajagthetesty]

I do dress up when nobody is there to see it.

And why do you think you do that? Why do you think it makes you feel good to know that you look good? I'm not going to explain it again, either read back through my posts or just have a think, or even offer some alternative reason. I'm not asking whether it makes you feel good, I'm asking why.

Because my physical appearance, like my intellect, knowledge, emotional stability, creativity, and a number of other attributes, is part of who I am. And it makes me feel good if I believe that any aspects of myself are positive. I don't work at my studying in order to impress people, but because I enjoy it and it makes me feel good to feel educated and intellectually stimulated. Wanting to feel like I look good is exactly the same thing.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Rather than listening to advice that probably won't come in useful since most rapists know their victims and would restrict their lives they instead choose to have a parade. If those were my options I'd have a parade too.



That parade seems like it'd be a good place to find a one night stand though ;D

Slut >.>
So...are you busy tonight? <.<

OP: wooh, go women. There is definitely a double standard in the slut/player dichotomy.

I'm very much not a slut, unless a total virgin can be one XD

And I'm pretty sure that word usually applies to girls, not guys >__>

Depends where you're from. I've heard it used once or twice to describe guys.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Alright, alright.

50% of women orgasm during sex more often than not according to a study cited in Fay Weldon's book "What Makes Women Happy". Yeah yeah, laugh it up.

50% of women have rape fantasies according to Donald Strassberg's book "Force in Women's Sexual Fantasies".

The 25% of orgasm during rape number varies (I've seen numbers from 5% to 35%, not adjusted for "fibbing") and almost all psychologists agree that whatever percentage of rape victims admit to it, the real number must be higher (some believe considerably higher).

 

[LiquidGrape]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Wait, what?

...It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

How does that translate into "orgasm is induced by mental stimulation"?

 

[AzzA-D]

To further elaborate, lest I be continually misunderstood:

I have given both facts and opinions that suggest (but do not prove) that women may, on some level, enjoy rape or aspects of being raped. That is not the same as saying that women want and/or deserve to be raped.

As this is a gaming site I'll use games as an example of what I mean. Almost all games involve violent killing. Why? Because on some level, we (especially men) enjoy violently killing people. Does that mean that each of us, taken as whole person, want to go around violently killing each other? Obviously not. Does it mean that we are "fucked up"? I'd say so.

I think the main problem that people are having with what you're saying is that you assume women, who get raped, and orgasm, are, on some level, enjoying it.

The people who are arguing against you, are saying that the orgasm is involuntary and has nothing to do with the enjoyment of the act.

I will also take your other quote:

The facts:
1) 50% of women fantasise about rape.
2) 50% of women orgasm more often than not during voluntary sex.
3) 25% of women orgasm during rape. Note that 50% multiplied by 50% is 25%.

...Just google them...
... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090901162513AA8s1lj ...

The yahoo answers page states between 5 and 21% of women reported significant sexual arousal or orgasm during the attack, and the link itself doesn't work (possibly on account of many views from this thread?).
Via Wiki, where you said you obtained these numbers, 50% did fantasize about rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy), however(also from wiki):

for 50-60% of women will never have an orgasm via intercourse and will require clitoral stimulation to climax. 30% of women will have a reliable orgasm with intercourse. 10% of women will orgasm with intercourse and could possibly have sequential orgasms. 5% of women have true multiple orgasms only through intercourse and these women typically find oral sex uncomfortable.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_orgasm#In_women)

Ill be honest, I dont care for your argument much. I will agree that many women probably do fantasize about rape, but as far as I can tell, role play and fantasizing isnt real life. In fact, people role play and fantasize in order to escape from real life. As we are on a gaming forum, I will use games as an example - would you be the exact same person as "The Courier" from Fallout:New Vegas if you were put in that position?

 

[captaincabbage]

So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?

Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?

Did you read the article? It's about the way they dress, not specifically how they act. And they're clearly using the term "slut" in jest.

On topic, I don't think anybody should be forced to dress outside of what they are comfortable to conform around criminal behavior, be they man or woman.

 

[Blair Bennett]

As impartial as I am to sluts, I think that a lot of people have missed the point. As far as I have been educated, Slutwalk is not about the celebration of promiscuity or sexual availability so much as it is a protest of people's tendency to say that women who have dressed provocatively and have been sexually assaulted in some way deserved it.

It's not a "Slut Parade" as you so eloquently put it, but is rather an organized protest of one of the more destructive societal reactions to sexual assault. People should, in all actually, have the ability to dress any way they desire to (within the limits of the law) without it discrediting them in the event that they are physically attacked by another.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Now I'm really confused. I'm not intentionally being an idiot, I just don't get where you're coming from.

Point 1: Rape is usually extremely painful.
Point 2: The vast majority of people do not find pain 'mentally stimulating'.

Point 3: The vagina is not very sensitive.
Point 4: The vast majority of people are unable to have orgasms purely from vaginal contact.

Conclusion: Vaginal rape does not produce orgasms on the scale you are describing.

If you want to try and convince me otherwise, you're going to need to show me some evidence describing how an organ which in most cases is incapable of getting a person to orgasm at all is suddenly able to do so while in a state of extreme pain.

It is possible such a phenomenon exists, but your suggestion is just that it happens not through some quirk of physiology, which might actually be convincing, but that women fundamentally enjoy getting raped. Your evidence is the existence of rape fantasies. I'm sorry, but unless you can prove a conclusive link here, your argument has zero validity.

I've said a lot. Which part(s) did you want reference(s) for?

I want evidence that 25% of women who are raped experience orgasm.

I want a description of the sample, the way in which the information was gathered, and the analysis.

Most of all, I want a reference for your assertion of a correlation between rape fantasies and this phenomenon beyond 'occams razor', which by the way you are using completely incorrectly.[footnote]Occams razor does not mean 'the simplest hypothesis is the most likely', if that were the case then occams razor would favour the idea that nuclear fission is actually caused by magic. Occams razor favours the hypothesis which makes the fewest new assumptions, and you're making a whole bunch of new assumptions here.[/footnote] Even were you not, however, occams razor is not a proof, it it a method for allocating the burden of proof, and right now the burden of proof is still incumbent on you to demonstrate any case whatsoever for this hypothesis you have.

 

[Ris]

Young people - particularly women - need to realise that they have a responsibility to themselves to keep safe. No, a man should never be excused from assaulting you because you were dressed like you were "asking for it", or whatever ridiculous excuse he might try to use. But that doesn't change the fact that a women dressed in a provocative manner is more likely to be a target than a woman who isn't. It's unfair, but it's the truth, and unfortunately there isn't really a way of stopping it from being the truth.

No, it's not actually. It's a baseless argument that only serves to shift some of the blame to the victim. Go back through this thread and you'll see numerous scientific studies being cited that all come to the same conclusion - women raped because they were wearing slutty clothing make up a minimal amount of rape victims.

I did say "assault", and it was quite deliberate. That includes being grabbed at, being pushed against a wall or having someone force you to touch them. Any kind of unwanted sexual encounter that wasn't consented to. I don't mean to quibble, but there's a world of assault in between someone not accepting "no" for an answer and someone actually penetrating you. Hopefully we both agree that any kind of sexual assault is traumatic to the victim, even when it doesn't go as far as rape. I'm not convinced that provocative clothing has such a minimal role when you look at the bigger picture.

And feel free to point me in the right direction, but I've only found one scientific study being cited in this thread. It was from a journal published in 1988. Sorry, but that's a little too old to be relevant. Fashions are hardly the same, are they? Women dress far more provocatively now than they did over two decades ago. I'm not even sure attitudes towards women are the same, or even the attitudes of women, let alone the fashion.

 

[supersixfour]

WHERE IS IT AND HOW CAN I GET THERE... jk OT: i think its a right, and more power to them at least some of probably know the risks and likely hood of rape

 

[JonnWood]

And to think, I didn't want to debate Jackson because I knew it wouldn't be productive. Good thing I was wrong, eh?

 

[JonnWood]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Not really, no. Anyway, I'm done in this thread.

Wow. Just, wow.

If orgasm can be introduced physically, without any mental response, then it is not a mental process.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Wait, what?

...It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

How does that translate into "orgasm is induced by mental stimulation"?

The logic goes like this:
a) Paralyzed people cannot feel some part of their body. (let us say the genitals are included in this for sake of argument)
b) Orgasm is induced (let us say "only," for sake of argument) by a combination of physical and mental stimulus.

THEREFORE

c) An orgasm achieved by a paralyzed person was induced solely by mental stimulus.

Counterarguments would include:
Climax is a chemical feedback loop, and chemicals will be released by physical stimulus whether or not signals of physical stimulus reach (or can be interpreted by) the brain.
Orgasms are induced by more stimuli than just physical and mental

 

[t3h br0th3r]

Then I think you're fairly shallow for needing apparel to derive confidence from, rather than taking it from - for example - your achievements, mentality or natural physical appearance.

Thanks, but I have plenty of pride and self-confidence deriving from my achievements and mentality. That doesn't mean I can't sometimes derive the same from clothing as well as from those other sources. Also, natural physical appearance is hardly entirely divorced from clothing. The clothing is used to highlight what is already there.

See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. You dress to kill because it makes you feel good and gives you confidence in yourself, and you don't even realise why it does! Sooo fucked up.

Without you offering your explanation of the deep lingering reasons behind my personal psyche (so deep and lingering, apparently, that I am unaware of them while you, a stranger on the internet, know exactly how my mind works) I find this response difficult to reply to. But given this post:

So you're saying that she (or anyone) would dress up even if nobody were there to see it?

and also this:

Women feel good when they look good because men like them when they look good.

I'm guessing that you're saying that my belief that I dress up purely to feel good in myself is in fact completely wrong, and my feeling good stems only from my desire to please men.

Well, guess what? I do dress up when nobody is there to see it. I put on my favourite outfits and do my hair and paint my nails and then sit inside on the internet all day. It makes me feel nice to look nice, end of story.

In addition, even when I do dress up when I go out, it's never to impress men. It might be because I've been having a tough time and could do with feeling good about myself, or it might be because the clothes are new and I want to try them out, or it might be a special occasion and I consider it appropriate. I'm not at all concerned about impressing men in any of these situations - in fact, I deal with attention and flirtation very poorly, and it makes me feel uncomfortable for the rest of the day. In the latter situation in particular, attention from men would be the last thing I want. If I've dressed up for a friend's birthday party, I don't want to be chatted up, I want to spend time with my friend. But I dress up anyway because special occasions deserve special clothes.

...but you do realize that the dudes don't know that right?

It may be a difference between the male and female mind but when i get dressed up and walk around, even if its for something completely unsocial, i want girls to look.

maybe its hormones+being in my early 20's talking but i kind of expect and look forward to it when i dress up because i know i will get a higher female attention level than average (admittedly that means going form 1 to 5 but still)

I never considered that line of thought, maybe its because i'm a dude or maybe because i'm only a 6 (8 on a good day) but i never even considered that.

I might have to try the whole dressing up to go online thing though.

 

[Belated]

The police shouldn't be discouraging alternate lifestyles. Those who trade freedom for safety deserve neither.

The quote is "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". And while I don?t believe in all that ?asking for it? crap how you dress is not an essential Liberty.

Don't get technical with me. Just because it's not an essential liberty doesn't mean it shouldn't be a right.

EDIT: Ugh, this post didn't show up the first time I posted it. So I reposted it and then this post showed up. IF mods see this, please delete this one and allow the second one to stay.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

Dave Chappelle said it best.

Start at 4:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymNdfdQvdVc

Don't wear a prostitute's uniform and you won't be treated like a prostitute.

Dave Chappelle is funny, but who decides what is a "prostitute's uniform"? I for one never decided that every girl in the world who dresses in a way that's nice to look at is inviting me to automatically have sex with her.

The fallacy here is the assumption that if a girl is willing to have sex with a guy outside of a relationship then she's willing to have sex with every guy. What it comes down to really, cause honestly, what is a slut in our culture? A girl who has sex outside of a relationship, sure it has connotations of having sex with everyone, but there's a massive divide between what people classify as a slut and what they use the term to mean (sort of like how everyone classifies themselves as a democracy, even Iran).

And dressing sexy automatically means she'll have sex with everyone? That's too much, seriously, it used to be that having a skirt/dress above the ankles was ankles was sufficient. Fashions change, and if I can control my myself enough to not sexually harass every girl who decides they wanna be fashionable, you can too.


If guys have a right to have sex with who they want, so do girls.