'Slut' Parade
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I don't see why so many people, men or women, think that being barely dressed = well dressed. Maybe it's just the way I was raised, but having as many inches of skin hanging out is just inviting trouble not only from men bold/dumb/horny enough to try to get a piece, but also other women who "are just jealous" and won't lift a finger if they get in trouble. The method of trying to get support also comes across as a bit silly since you don't see protests springing up for every little insult created; parades to celebrate a particular lifestyle can get more support than simply waving signs around on a street corner. Maybe a Woman's Pride parade, since that would come across better than Slut Pride.
The oppression thing is a bit of crap. These women have far more rights than any other group of women in the world. They can dress like sluts without being arrested, unlike some places in the world, and just because some men have raped some women in the past doesn't mean they are oppressed. Most of those women were probably not even raped or anything. The truth is that some women have been raped throughout the ages in many different circumstances. It is not just sluts, so there really isn't any reason they would be celebrating.Kingsman said:
you are 100% insane,Treblaine said:On the other hand if you pull a lion's tail you can't be surprised it it turns round and rips your face off.wall5970 said:I'm pretty sure that you missed the point of the entire thing which was as follows: They were protesting the idea that a woman "asks" to be raped based solely on what she's wearing at the time.TB_Infidel said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13333013
So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?
Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?
I agree that taking the blame away from the RAPIST in the situation is detrimental. So I agree with them.
If I remember right, (I didn't read that specific article on it all the way through, but have read about this before), the whole "slut" thing came out of a judge calling a rape victim a slut because of how she dressed.
It is a truism that if men are "distracted" by women's bodies then that is DE JURE the man's problem (he must bear the burden of self-restraint), not the woman's. But when it comes to sexual harassment/assault that is when it becomes DE FACTO the woman's problem.
For example why is it OK for a Park Warden to lecture the family of a dead hiker "ooh well he shouldn't have provoked that wild bear by playing with it's cubs, that bear was only responding instinctively." when saying the equivalent for a human-human assault would be so insensitive? What is so special about humans compared to wild animals? Why is it because animals are EXPECTED to be animalistic is the burden of responsibility shifted to the human, yet with humans who are quite frankly insane do they retain responsibility.
A lot of males that are living freely in society are more like animals, they think with their base instincts and use violence to get what they want, you do not want to provoke these people even if you have every legal right. As when some sociopath with 50lbs more muscle than you attacks you then it's the law of the jungle and the strongest will prevail, not the just.
I think it is important in a functional society to know the extent and limitations of Civil Rights and Practical Rights.
The law is not and cannot be everywhere. The police cannot stop every assault, it cannot track down every rapist, hell It can't even give a proportional punishment for rape, there is no way of matching that.
This is why I think the power protecting rights - what makes civil rights practical rights - should be in the hands of people that actually need them. I think that extends to things like the 2nd Amendment, which are all about putting power in the hands of those that need it such as arming women to level the playing field with men who get what they want thanks to the testosterone induced strength advantage.
the law is not everywhere? yes it is. this is what gives the law its authority, the very fact that it is consistent and everywhere. hence: the rule of law.
men are not bears. men are men who are capable of controlling them selves, bears are animals who should not be poked.
there are no limits on your civil rights. there is no such thing as "practical rights"
rights are impractical, which is among the reasons why they are so imported.
the fact that humans are animals does not mean we have no humanity. we are communicating on computers, bears have no computers. we are self aware, bears are bears.
you don't understand what the word "animal" implies, you don't understand women rights, you don't understand law, you sound like an uneducated, black and white thinking; genetic-determinist.
one final thought; a gentleman will always call evil by its name. if you encounter a 501lb person (who would probably be a blob not a rock but anyway) who is raping a woman,the moral thing to do is call the cops. not just say "well, that's the way of the jungle". everyone knows this, which is why its the law.
you, sir, are no gentleman.
You're such an idiot.Colour-Scientist said:
And I, for one, and phenomenally insulted that you would ever fucking accuse me of saying anything justifies rape.
Apologize.
So they have no right to protest unless they have been raped? What?SilentCom said:
It's about women being blamed, or partially, blamed for a man raping them due to their choice of clothes.
Of the quote regarding "warped/hedonistic parts of Western society", the poster did not expressively say that it is the woman's fault. They pointed out that the slutty women were ignoring advice and instead celebrating the opposite. While I believe it is not the woman's fault for being raped, as rape is non-consentual, the woman still dress in a way that provokes men, hence the term 'provocative.'EradiusLore said:"of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?"TB_Infidel said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13333013
So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?
Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?
what disturbes me is how your trying to impose your belief onto other people (not religious are you?) so what if they want to be sluts, and how is it there fault if some guys are so uncivilised that they would rape someone! even if a girl was walking around naked i wouldnt be a barbarian and rape her!
if other people like to live a certain way deal with it, its not your problem!
Basically, it's not the woman's fault, but she still made herself an easier target. It's sort of like covering yourself in honey and running around in the woods, only to get attacked by a bear or something. Sure, I didn't choose to get attacked by the bear, but I made myself an attractive target.
Another example is walking around in a shady area of the city after dark caring around a bag full of money.
The poster's point is that hedonistic behavior on part of the women is basically trying to remove all sense of responsibility from the women in an attempt to make them seem more innocent. They try doing so by saying it is their choice. They just forget that with every choice there is a consequence.
Yes people should be allowed to do and dress how they want, although the empowering thing seems a little off ( How does dressing provacativly empower you?).
The thing is its dangerous to. The other day i wanted a bacon sandwich at about 3 in the morning. There is an all night tescos about a mile from me, except i live in a bad neibourhood, so i had the sense not to go. Same here really. Although people could dress how they want but be more sensible and wed be hunky dory
TLDR Support the idea, campaigns a little weird though
The thing is its dangerous to. The other day i wanted a bacon sandwich at about 3 in the morning. There is an all night tescos about a mile from me, except i live in a bad neibourhood, so i had the sense not to go. Same here really. Although people could dress how they want but be more sensible and wed be hunky dory
TLDR Support the idea, campaigns a little weird though
The latter section of that post wasn't aimed at you but perhaps I should have made that more clear.A Curious Fellow said:
Even still, I can't help but react negatively to any sort of suggestion that women bring it upon themselves with the way they dress. I shouldn't have to refrain from wearing a skirt just because I might make myself an 'easy and alluring target'.
They have the right to protest, but their choice of words aren't good. The protesting part should emphasize more on how rape is wrong rather than trying to make themselve out to be "sluts".Colour-Scientist said:
Also, as I have posted, rape has been something that was done through out the ages and not just against women who dress provocatively (rape affects non-provocative women as well as some men or children). If anything, these women should protest against rape itself and try to gain a stronger holding on punishment toward rape, rather than celebrating their right to where provocative clothing.
Overall, rape isn't about provocative clothing, its about a man (usually) with no self control whom inacts his desire of sexual intercourse through force.
Maybe we should all be clear: Rape is heinous and the men who do it are acting out pouwer fantasies or obeying an antiquated animalistic instinct at best, evil and psychopathic at worst. They shouldn't do it, first and foremost. That's just basic justice.Colour-Scientist said:
But I say safety comes before justice. I tell my friends, I tell my girlfriend, I'm telling you, and I would tell any woman: Make yourself as safe as you reasonably can. As far as that goes? Don't be stupid with the way you dress, the places you go, or the company you keep. By rights you should be allowed to do whatever you want, but the hard truth is that predators exist, and you can't just will them away with high minded sensibilities.
By all means, stand up for women's rights. I'm right there with you. But preaching something doesn't make it so. Take precautions for reality in the meantime.
But the fact that rape is wrong should be readily understood. What they're protesting against is the attitude of the policeman in question that "sluts" bring it upon themselves and the negative connotations associated with the label.SilentCom said:
It's not about the men who rape the women, it's society's attitude that the victim is partially to blame due to her choice of clothing or consentual, sexual activities.
A woman should be able to wear whatever they want, no matter how skimpy or sexy, without fearing repercussion of rape.
Question: If a women is wearing a G String and scotch tape over her nipples, and gets drunk in a seedy bar and gets raped, whose fault is it? Answer: The rapist. Only. Period. No one else, whatsoever, in even the tinest way. You can argue that the woman could have taken more precautions to avoid rape, sure. That doesn't change the fact that it is the rapists fault, and the woman is nothing except a victim. Blameing the victim is a horrible game.
Being willing to sleep around with a number of men, and having CONSENSUAL sex with any number of partners has absolutely nothing to do with rape. It gives a rapist no permission, rights, and no leniency. Besides, rape a very serious matter, and I am sure that even the rapist knows that. Frankly, I am kind of insulted as a MAN, that there is this implication that is we males are just exposed to a certain amount of sexiness, we will magically be turned into rapist, that a rapists shortcoming is just succumbing to the siren song of slutty women who are, "Asking for it". Bullshit. A rapist has chosen to do something horrible, and if they want to rape someone, opportunity is by far more important then what they are wearing. It doesn't matter if you are wearing a bikini or a burqua.
Lastly, I have to acknowledge a point AGAINST this walk. I understand the desire to, "Take it back" regarding certain words. But I don't think it works quite so well. I mean, these days, the term, "Slut" really doesn't mean, "A woman who sleeps with many partners". The implication is that they are unloyal, bitchy, manipulative, use sex for shallow purposes, and are generally not very nice. That doesn't seem to inspire a lot of sympathy, and just undercuts what you are trying to do. Stick to the important parts of the message.
Question: If a women is wearing a G String and scotch tape over her nipples, and gets drunk in a seedy bar and gets raped, whose fault is it? Answer: The rapist. Only. Period. No one else, whatsoever, in even the tinest way. You can argue that the woman could have taken more precautions to avoid rape, sure. That doesn't change the fact that it is the rapists fault, and the woman is nothing except a victim. Blameing the victim is a horrible game.
Being willing to sleep around with a number of men, and having CONSENSUAL sex with any number of partners has absolutely nothing to do with rape. It gives a rapist no permission, rights, and no leniency. Besides, rape a very serious matter, and I am sure that even the rapist knows that. Frankly, I am kind of insulted as a MAN, that there is this implication that is we males are just exposed to a certain amount of sexiness, we will magically be turned into rapist, that a rapists shortcoming is just succumbing to the siren song of slutty women who are, "Asking for it". Bullshit. A rapist has chosen to do something horrible, and if they want to rape someone, opportunity is by far more important then what they are wearing. It doesn't matter if you are wearing a bikini or a burqua.
Lastly, I have to acknowledge a point AGAINST this walk. I understand the desire to, "Take it back" regarding certain words. But I don't think it works quite so well. I mean, these days, the term, "Slut" really doesn't mean, "A woman who sleeps with many partners". The implication is that they are unloyal, bitchy, manipulative, use sex for shallow purposes, and are generally not very nice. That doesn't seem to inspire a lot of sympathy, and just undercuts what you are trying to do. Stick to the important parts of the message.
Being able to dress however you want without people telling you you should be ashamed of your body can be empowering. Women should be able to wear what ever the hell they want out, and when anybody can show me studies clearly linking how women dress and chances of being sexually assaulted then maybe I'd change my tune.Reaperman64 said:
I've said it before, but relying on common sense without looking into the actual numbers if fallacious. Common sense sometimes has shit for brains.
Fair enough, although it may help if there was some mention or reference in the original picture about the "policeman in question" or change in wording. Something like this should be protested or spoken about bluntly so people don't mistake what they are protesting.Colour-Scientist said:
Going around caring signs saying "I'm a proud slut" isn't exactly going to make people understand what you are trying to protest. XD
Saying, "Don't tell us how to dress, tell men not to rape", is like saying, "Don't tell me where to keep my money, tell people not to take it".
That comparison doesn't really work. Yes, it could be said to apply if "where you're keeping your money" is "in your house" or some other place where taking it would be indisputably illegal, but if you put five bucks on the street and walk away, then someone takes it, that's not a crime on their part, whereas rape is always a crime, no matter how provocatively someone may dress. You're skirting a dangerous line that seems to suggest that there may be some instances where a woman "puts her money in such a stupid place" that "taking it" is no longer a crime, which is not how it should work, not at all, and I don't think that was your intent.lasting_Child said:
Thats a different culture entire, especially since the woman is killed in that culture for it. We're talking western cultures, where we have a bit more respect for our women. So thats not a fair comparison.letterbomber223 said: