Small talk and the art of having less than deep conversation...

[Dags90]

I'm 23 but probably about 28 in mental terms)

Big red flag. Maybe it's just your ego that's getting in the way of deep personal relationships? What was that demotivator..."The only link in all of your unsatisfactory relationships is you."

Unless you're a physics major, talking about the "the latest theories in quantum theory" is about as deep an meaningful as my pop psychological evaluation of you. If you are a physics major, then I'd imagine you'd have people to talk with physics about in your classes.

I really don't think you're "friends" with these people, or at least what "friends" used to mean before Facebook.

 

[floppylobster]

or, "How do I encourage people to talk about interesting things instead of lame things?"

Learn the art of asking questions.

Although this method is great for getting to know new people, what I struggle with is keeping light conversation between established aquaintences fresh and interesting. If you have any advice on that, that'd be awesome!

This is definitely tricky and there are no doubt some lost causes who, no matter what you try, will always leave you with nothing of substance to work with. Your best bet is to shock them out of their complacency and take something they take for granted and suggest you believe the opposite. For example - "God I hate working weekends." "Actually I've started to love working weekends" (then give them valid reasons for why that might be). It can often prompt a more interesting conversation as they start to think you're weird. But in the process you can get to the heart of why they say stock phrases every time you meet. If you can offer up counter examples to the safe and changeless world they seem to want to live, and perhaps break some of the preconceptions they believe everyone around them shares, then you may perhaps be able to open them up to the realisation the world is not as they think it is. Try not to get too carried away just being deliberately controversial but just do enough to bring them out of their closed-off world view.

"I fucking love Bruno Mars's new song"
- "I'm thinking of changing my name too. What do you think I should change it to?"

"I fucking love Bruno Mars's new song"
- "I can't seem to feel any emotion when I listen to music any more. What do you think could have caused that?"

At least then you can have some fun and enjoy the conversation. (David Letterman can do this quite well when he has a boring guest).

 

[kingcom]

Often there is no high horse, there is just one person desperate to have a meaningful conversation with another human being so they can relieve the same stresses that everyone else is trying to put behind them. If you can't their life is much more painful and difficult.

Horseshit.

Attempting to drag everyone into a deep meaningful conversation is not a way to relieve stress. It's a way to show off your intelligence. If people aren't interested in those topics then making them talk about them just to prove how smart you are isn't going to win you any favours.

Deep conversations are not suitable for every situation. I didn't say don't have them at-all. I have them when they're relevant. I don't choose to refuse anyone who isn't over analysing everything.

You have to choose which kind of conversations are suitable for present company. Otherwise you're just a jackass that wants everyone to conform to their way of thinking ect.

You can disagree with everything else I have said, its all just opinion (though my question was genuine despite what you may think).

I never said attempting to drag people into a meaningful conversation is a way to relieve stress (though im sure for someone this is true). Holding that that conversation however, does. It certainly does for me, thats why i like to hold them. Also, 10 minute reading a newspaper? I don't know who Bruno Mars, he puts stuff in a newspaper?

 

[Logic 0]

I'm not much of a talker so it never really comes up much except people like to have deep conversations with me for some reason.

 

[kingcom]

Also, 10 minute reading a newspaper? I don't know who Bruno Mars, he puts stuff in a newspaper?

Do you know what's in a newspaper...? News.

If a celebrity has done something that people are likely to be discussing, it's probably in a paper.

I don't know most of the people some of my friends talk about. But I can usually gleem enough information about them from listening to conversations and 10 minutes reading a paper on the bus.

Keeping up with enough of our inane culture to have a 5 minute discussion about it now and again isn't a difficult task. It's pretty much subconscious now.

Maybe your newspapers are a little bit different to mine but newspapers normally have things like, recent actions by politicians or current events. I mean some celebrity stuff sure but for any sort of real information I would need to go look up a magazine on the topic. I would hardly call that subconscious. Maybe from a lot of tv but I don't watch much of it.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I'm 23 but probably about 28 in mental terms)

Big red flag. Maybe it's just your ego that's getting in the way of deep personal relationships? What was that demotivator..."The only link in all of your unsatisfactory relationships is you."

Unless you're a physics major, talking about the "the latest theories in quantum theory" is about as deep an meaningful as my pop psychological evaluation of you. If you are a physics major, then I'd imagine you'd have people to talk with physics about in your classes.

I really don't think you're "friends" with these people, or at least what "friends" used to mean before Facebook.

Well I can't defend my age statement with proof of course and I don't want to bore you with a life story but it's the way I feel and it's something that my friends, teachers, colleagues and even my own mother have said. I don't act or think like a typical 23 year old that is for sure... But yes I do recognise this in some way impedes my ability to become close friends with a group of 16-19 year olds, they really are like children to my eyes. So instead of complaining about that, I'm seeking help on how to identify with this age group better and perhaps even coax some slightly more intelligent conversations with them...

I never said I fully understood quantum theory, far from it, but I do consider conversations about the formation and structure of the universe to be both meaningful and intelligent, don't you? I dont care if my level of understanding would make Einstein laugh but its a topic I enjoy learning about and discussing. I am friends with a physics student at a university who helps me to get my head around crazy things like quantum entaglement, string theory and the so called "dark energy". I don't think you have to be a science whizz to find any of these topics and their implications interesting... I did manage to have a great conversation with some friends at college about the latest big bang theory and I managed to explain how we think the universe formed. It was fun and they enjoyed it and learned lots, I wish we could had similar conversations in the future. I just don't remember how we ever got started on the subject.

Contrary to popular belief I am actually friends with my classmates, making such snap judgements about me are utterly useless and make you seem less intelligent for it, so let's not do that again please?

 

[kingcom]

Also, 10 minute reading a newspaper? I don't know who Bruno Mars, he puts stuff in a newspaper?

Do you know what's in a newspaper...? News.

If a celebrity has done something that people are likely to be discussing, it's probably in a paper.

I don't know most of the people some of my friends talk about. But I can usually gleem enough information about them from listening to conversations and 10 minutes reading a paper on the bus.

Keeping up with enough of our inane culture to have a 5 minute discussion about it now and again isn't a difficult task. It's pretty much subconscious now.

Maybe your newspapers are a little bit different to mine but newspapers normally have things like, recent actions by politicians or current events. I mean some celebrity stuff sure but for any sort of real information I would need to go look up a magazine on the topic. I would hardly call that subconscious. Maybe from a lot of tv but I don't watch much of it.

That's the point. There doesn't need to be much. A tiny bit is enough to spark a conversation.

I don't read anything more than tid bits of info about anything like celebrities or whatever.

Just enough to have some point of reference if the subject comes up.

I read the news fairly regularly and I have no idea what people are talking about when it comes to things like cleebrities, music etc.

 

[Lyx]

Isn't it kinda obvious, that what you want is a contradiction?

Let's replay some of the what-if games:

1. You just want to get along with them. No intentions beyond that. Just getting along with people that don't match you, in cases where you have to.

No problem here. Doesn't even require extensive small-talk. Rather, the minimum to achieve this requires little own initiative. For the most part, just replying "something" trivial, or making trivial remarks - all stuff that has no significance - is already enough. And you said yourself already that you can do this.

2. You want to find people that match you, so that you can talk about stuff that interests you.

You already know such people. There is no problem.

3. You want to "nudge" people that don't match you a little bit. No big changes, just shifting topics and talkstyle a little bit into your direction.

Again, you already know how to do that. There is no problem.

4. You want to talk with people that do not match you, about stuff that doesn't interest them. In other words: You want to make your interests their interests, against their will.

Obvious contradiction is obvious.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Isn't it kinda obvious, that what you want is a contradiction?

Let's replay some of the what-if games:

1. You just want to get along with them. No intentions beyond that. Just getting along with people that don't match you, in cases where you have to.

No problem here. Doesn't even require extensive small-talk. Rather, the minimum to achieve this requires little own initiative. For the most part, just replying "something" trivial, or making trivial remarks - all stuff that has no significance - is already enough. And you said yourself already that you can do this.

2. You want to find people that match you, so that you can talk about stuff that interests you.

You already know such people. There is no problem.

3. You want to "nudge" people that don't match you a little bit. No big changes, just shifting topics and talkstyle a little bit into your direction.

Again, you already know how to do that. There is no problem.

4. You want to talk with people that do not match you, about stuff that doesn't interest them. In other words: You want to make your interests their interests, against their will.

Obvious contradiction is obvious.

You may be correct in pointing some of these out.

Except the last one. That isn't really what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to force my interests on people, I'd like to share them, they have a choice whether or not to accept it. For example, I know that some of my friends have never seen any anime, or dismiss it as cartoons. Being a fan of anime, i'd like to share it with them if they wish to do so. The response has always been pretty positive so I'm trying to arrange a night when some of us can get together and do this (difficult as I live an hours drive from most of them). If someone wasn't interested I wouldn't force it down their throats because I'm not a douchebag.

It's funny how when somebody posts an OP like this, someone always assumes the OP is or is likely to act like a douchebag until proven otherwise...

Now it's not exactly hard to strike up a conversation about anime, because most people are vaguely aware of its existence (and it's negative connotations). Other topics aren't so easily dropped into casual conversation. It's fair for me to say (well, you'll have to take my word for it), quite a lot of the interests I have, most at my college will either not have experienced before or they hold a very one-sided and ill-informed opinion about. It is these things that I wish to share, who knows I might actually find something more in common with them.

But none of that was even the intention of this thread. I am open to this sharing of interests from others as well. It's actually the method to getting people to reveal their interests which is eluding me and what I'm asking for in this thread. As I've said before, it's the tendency for most of my college friends to indulge in inane banter or gossip rather than talking about themselves...

That's what I'm having trouble with here. I'm trying to learn how to influence the transition of inane banter into slightly more intelligent/interesting/introspective conversation. Nothing more...

 

[Vault101]

I can talk to people or even strangers fine if we actually have somthing to talk about

but I hate trying the whole small talk thing

Thats why I hate going to the hairdressers, they try and talk to you I find it nice and all but usually I just have nothing to say

and my hair is getting so long...*sigh*

 

[BENZOOKA]

I'm a bit like you in this subject. I don't like to do small talk about mundane things (unless I'm really interested in the girl). I find it boring to talk about stuff that were not both interested in and I often give that off. I'm also the one to way more easily switch the subject to either one's more personal stuff, which might just kill the conversation.

All in all, I'm bad at doing small talk and instead all about the deeper conversations, so usually if there's nothing but mundane things to chat about, I'll prefer silence. But this is where it gets more interesting: Culture differences play a huge role in this. Here, if you bump to someone in the hallway like that second cartoon, you don't have to engage in small talk at all. If you bump into a person that is, or used to be, a buddy or a friend, you don't have to do small talk.

We're a lot more comfortable with silence and the small talk -culture, if you will, is more or less non-existent. It's a bit difficult to explain, but the problems you've addressed: they don't necessarily even exist here.

 

[SimuLord]

I don't do "small talk". I'll go maybe two sentences but if I don't have something at greater length to talk to you about...or you don't have the same for me, then "get the fuck out of my face" tends to be my nonverbal attitude.

 

[Lyx]

But none of that was even the intention of this thread. I am open to this sharing of interests from others as well. It's actually the method to getting people to reveal their interests which is eluding me and what I'm asking for in this thread. As I've said before, it's the tendency for most of my college friends to indulge in inane banter or gossip rather than talking about themselves...

That's what I'm having trouble with here. I'm trying to learn how to influence the transition of inane banter into slightly more intelligent/interesting/introspective conversation. Nothing more...

If it is your intention to simply figure out what someone else is interested in, then:

1. Have you considered the possibility, that they may not understand themselves? That they themselves may not know?

2. If the answer to "1." is "yes", then did you consider, that assisting in them figuring it out, actually requires skills in which "geeks" typically aren't that good? This stuff has more to do with psychology, empathy and knowing how people tick - so, VERY "social" skills? I'm not saying that you're a typical geek - not even saying that you lack those skills - just asking if you're aware that the required skills here are not what popularily is called "intelligence".

 

[Raven's Nest]

If is is your intention to simply figure out what someone else is interested in, then:

1. Have you considered the possibility, that they may not understand themselves? That they themselves may not know?

2. If the answer to "1." is "yes", then did you consider, that assisting in them figuring it out, actually requires skills in which "geeks" typically aren't that good? This stuff has more to do with psychology, empathy and knowing how people tick - so, VERY "social" skills? I'm not saying that you're a typical geek - not even saying that you lack those skills - just asking if you're aware that the required skills here are not what popularily is called "intelligence".

To the first, Yes I have, honestly sometimes I talk to them just to figure this out and maybe even help them to figure it out for themselves...

And to the second you are tapping in to a field of psychology which I'm quite familiar with. If you know of the Meyers-Briggs personality indicator, it may surprise you to learn I'm quite a highly expressed INFP. Which is to say the core of my personality revolves around being introverted, inquisitive, caring and said to be the most empathetic of all the personality types. Although what I feel separates me from this creed is that I'm pretty darn picky when it comes to dishing out sympathy. I'll understand and appreciate problems/people/ actions but I'm not usually inclined to care about them. Of course in my daily life I'm not unkind or tactless, just perhaps a little aloof or distant.

I don't really self identify as a geek you see, sure I have geek interests but I don't actually feel I identify with any particular social group or peerage.

My intentions are genuinely friendly though, I do want to get closer to my friends and understand them better, but I'd also like them to understand a little bit more about me too. Misrepresentation is my biggest insecurity. It's hard not to feel like you've been tarred with a certain brush by people who are either wilfully ignorant or just lack the capacity to understand. Deciding which is which can be hard work. I judge people when I meet them but I don't want to hold a false impression of someone so I'll give them the chance.

 

[Dags90]

Contrary to popular belief I am actually friends with my classmates, making such snap judgements about me are utterly useless and make you seem less intelligent for it, so let's not do that again please?

What does anyone in this forum have except snap judgments? Maybe I missed the part where everyone else has a detailed knowledge of your life story. If so, my apologies. You're just lashing out because you don't like my snap judgments because they don't conform to your current worldview. So yeah, how does that make you look?

For someone who claims a mental age of 28, you don't take criticism well. Resulting to snap judgments about my intelligence because of snap judgments I made about you. Well played.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Contrary to popular belief I am actually friends with my classmates, making such snap judgements about me are utterly useless and make you seem less intelligent for it, so let's not do that again please?

What does anyone in this forum have except snap judgments? Maybe I missed the part where everyone else has a detailed knowledge of your life story. If so, my apologies. You're just lashing out because you don't like my snap judgments because they don't conform to your current worldview. So yeah, how does that make you look?

For someone who claims a mental age of 28, you don't take criticism well. Resulting to snap judgments about my intelligence because of snap judgments I made about you. Well played.

What's with the hostility man? I'm not lashing out at anyone.

I just corrected you about an important factor in my OP. Obviously I would know best about my own life yet you made an assumption about me based on what? And for what reason? Where in my OP was I looking for an argument?

To what criticism are you referring? You mean the part where you stated your assumptions about me which I corrected? I'm sorry but I believe I have every right to call you out on it. It's a dumb thing to do and you know it. I'm not making assumptions about your intelligence, I'm pointing out a remark displaying a clear lack intelligence in it's implementation. There's a difference buddy.

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What is with all the hostility around the Escapist these days? Makes me think people just go around looking for reasons to start unwarranted arguments...