Smash-cuts

[Souplex]

Now that the last of the characters for Smash Bros.: Rumble have been announced, there have been a few folks popping up all over the webernets talking about who they want to be added when Smash Bros.: Smackdown comes out.
Those people are overlooking a crucial fact: The roster is pretty full, and more characters eat up development resources, and make balancing harder.
It's time to make some cuts. Athe knows there are way too many Pookeymanns.
Obviously certain characters can't be removed. I'm pretty sure the characters from 64 have been locked in.
Who should be removed and why?

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Captain Falcon! Because he's the most popular character and it'd be really really funny to see Reddit explode.

 

[Souplex]

Captain Falcon! Because he's the most popular character and it'd be really really funny to see Reddit explode.

Is cap really the most popular? I've seen a fairly even distribution of characters whenever I play online.
Do you have an actual answer though? Maybe Charizard, and then they'd take most of the moveset and apply it to Ridley?

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

I'd remove Jigglypuff, but mostly out of bias because I really don't like Jigglypuff both in Smash and in the show and constantly use her as my punching bag.

I'd also remove Marth, because I'd rather just have Lucina be the replacement rather than the clone.

 

[Souplex]

]I'd also remove Marth, because I'd rather just have Lucina be the replacement rather than the clone.

To be fair, Smash seems to be following a pattern of first Fire Emblem Protagonist (Marth) and most recent Fire Emblem Protagonist. (Roy: Melee, Ike: Brawl, Robin/Lucina/Corrin: Rumble)
I'd like it if Lucina were downgraded from a full character to an alternate costume for Marth. They could o the same with Roy, and maybe even throw Chrom in that way.

 

[Paragon Fury]

The current list of characters in Smash 4:

Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Rosalina
Wario
Yoshi
Bowser Jr.
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Link
Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Pickachu
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Lucario
Mewtwo
Greninja
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena
Kirby
King Deedee
Metaknight
Fox
Falco
Marth
Ike
Roy
Robin
Lucina
Corrin
Ness
Lucas
Capt. Falcon
Samus
ZSS Samus
ROB
Olimar
Little Mac
Mr. Game and Watch
Sonic
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mii
Shulk
Duck Hunt
Megaman
Pac-Man
Ryu
Cloud
Bayonetta


From this list, I would cut from Smash 5;


Dr. Mario (Clone of Mario, worse in every way)
Lucina (Inferior Clone of Marth)
Roy (Less popular than Ike, tied for power level)
Robin + Corrin (Rotational Characters)
Dark Pit (Pointless palatte swap of Pit)
Toon Link (Inferior clone of Link)
Lucas (Not significantly different enough from Ness to merit a character slot)
ZSS Samus (Combine back into one character with normal Samus)
Wii Fit Trainer (Almost no one gives a shit about this character and its so random)
Shulk (Rotational Character)
Cloud (Guest Star, not a Nintendo property)
Ryu (Guest Star, not a Nintendo Property)
Megaman (There are better, Nintendo-exclusive versions they could use)
Charizard (To return in Pokemon Trainer)


Some of these I would make alternate costumes of other characters - IE: Lucina and say, Chrom, would be alternate versions of Marth. The characters I would likely add in their place:


Django the Solar Boy (Boktai)
Shanoa (Castlevania: Symphony of Night, a Nintendo-DS only game)
Megaman X OR Megaman.EXE or Vent/Aile (Megaman X, Megaman Battle Network, Megaman ZX/ZX Advent)
Hector (Fire Emblem)
A Lance, Axe or Ranged female from Fire Emblem - EX: Camilla, Cordellia, Miriel etc.
The Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter - Guest Star)
Momiji (Dead or Alive - Guest Star)
Pokemon Trainer (Pokemon)
Ice Climbers (Ice Climbers)

 

[Andy Shandy]

Before I go through the entire roster, I don't care if the changes made break characters in terms of the FGC or whatever, I've come up with them off the top of my head. Also, I haven't played all of the characters, so my reasons for one character may not hold up as well as others.

Spoiler: Right, going through in alphabetical order:

Bayonetta: Keep. I know she isn't even out yet, but she certainly looks like she'll be a great and unique addition to the roster.
Bowser: Keep.
Bowser Jr: Cut/move into Bowser's moveset/Final Smash
Captain Falcon: Keep.
Cloud: Cut. Nice as a one off, but continued use in Smash Bros (especially when the game he's from is notably when FF moved away from Nintendo) seems silly. Could see him being kept if Remake comes to Ninty systems though
Corrin: Cut. Personally I'd cut most of the Fire Emblem roster for being fairly similar.
Dark Pit: Alternate costume/transformation for Pit.
Diddy Kong: Make him and Donkey Kong almost like the Ice Climbers, with Donkey Kong leading
Donkey Kong: See directly above
Dr. Mario: Alternate costume for Mario
Duck Hunt: Cut. Mainly because I don't care.
Falco: Move him into a "Team Star Fox" character where you can switch between members of Team Star Fox (so Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy) each with their different moveset
Fox: See directly above again (how odd)
Ganondorf: Keep.
Greninja: Cut.
Ike: Cut. See Corrin.
Jigglypuff: Keep.
King Dedede: Keep.
Kirby: Keep
Link: Keep
Little Mac: Keep
Lucario: Cut. Like him in Pokemon. Not a huge fan of him here.
Lucas: Alternate costume for Ness. It says a lot that I'm going by the list of characters on Wikipedia and still forgot about him
Lucina: Cut.
Luigi: Keep
Mario: Keep
Marth: Keep. Literally the only reason for keeping him and one other is because I'm used to them and I don't want particularly want rid of Fire Emblem characters entirely. Swap out your favourite Fire Emblems to be seen as keeps if you want I don't mind
Mega Man: Keep
Meta Knight: Keep
Mewtwo: Keep
Miis: Keep
Mr Game And Watch: Keep. Entirely because I love hitting others with a 10.
Ness: Keep
Olimar: Keep
Palutena: Keep
Peach: Keep
Pikachu: Keep
Pit: Keep
R.O.B: Keep
Robin: Cut. And we were on such a streak too. Such a shame.
Rosalina and Luma: Alternate costume/transformation for Peach
Roy: Keep. ROY'S OUR BOY! Actually I don't give a shit, but he's the other one I remember. As I said before, feel free to swap Roy out for your favourite.
Ryu: Keep.
Samus: Keep
Sheik: Keep. But back as a Zelda transformation you go.
Shulk: Keep
Sonic: Keep, although I'd find a way to incorporate Tails/Knuckles more. Final Smash maybe? Not those Mii costumes anyway
Toon Link: Alternate costume for Link. Or perhaps a Zero Smake more sense with Young Link. Bollocks.
Villager: Keep
Wario: Keep
Wii Fit Trainer: Keep
Yoshi: Keep
Zelda: Keep
Zero Suit Samus: Keep

So all in all, between cuts and changes, I free up 16 spaces on the roster, if I've counted correctly (it's late here). Not entirely sure how I'd fill them all again mind, but that's a question for another thread, probably.

 

[Hero of Lime]

The number one characters I want in Smash 5 would be the inklings from Splatoon. They are not only one of the newest characters to come out of Nintendo in a long time, but they have so much potential to be really great fighters.

Speak for yourself OP, I want more Pokemon! They actually have an excuse to have one of the biggest representations in the game, as there are literally over 700 of them, and there will be many more by the time Smash 5 comes out. However, I can remedy having too many Pokemon, as you will soon see.

First off, I would cut Jigglypuff. The only reason it's still in Smash is because it's one of the original 12. It hasn't been relevant in its series for a long time, and in the case of Pokemon, there are literally hundreds of better options.

Dr. Mario should just be a costume alt for Mario.

Lucina should just be a costume alt for Marth, same with Roy. Roy actually has a different feel to Marth in Smash 4, but is still a semi clone.

]I'd remove Jigglypuff, but mostly out of bias because I really don't like Jigglypuff both in Smash and in the show and constantly use her as my punching bag.

I'd also remove Marth, because I'd rather just have Lucina be the replacement rather than the clone.

Agree with you on the Jigglypuff point. So many more Pokemon deserve a spot than some Pokemon that was popular back in the late 90s, and it's just because of its anime role. Most younger Pokemon fans probably don't see Jigglypuff as anything but some random Pokemon from gen 1 they could care less about.

However, I disagree with cutting Marth in favor of Lucina. Marth is the poster child of Fire Emblem. He's the protagonist of the first two games, and has a stronger "all star" status than Lucina. Lucina can just stay as an alt for Marth in a future game. Hopefully Smash 5 will be better about giving us more characters as alts, as opposed to making them all separate entities.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

However, I disagree with cutting Marth in favor of Lucina. Marth is the poster child of Fire Emblem. He's the protagonist of the first two games, and has a stronger "all star" status than Lucina. Lucina can just stay as an alt for Marth in a future game. Hopefully Smash 5 will be better about giving us more characters as alts, as opposed to making them all separate entities.

Well, I guess the Marth thing is another bias. I never really cared for him even back in melee. I like his moveset a lot and I have no problem playing him, I just never cared much for his design. I liked Ike and Roy a lot better. Also, the first two Fire Emblems, from what I believe, were Japan only, while Awakening was released in the West as well as Japan, so for me it makes sense to instead have a character from an entry in the series that more people probably played, especially one that plays largely the same.

Also, I just like Lucina better.

 

[Hero of Lime]

]

However, I disagree with cutting Marth in favor of Lucina. Marth is the poster child of Fire Emblem. He's the protagonist of the first two games, and has a stronger "all star" status than Lucina. Lucina can just stay as an alt for Marth in a future game. Hopefully Smash 5 will be better about giving us more characters as alts, as opposed to making them all separate entities.

Well, I guess the Marth thing is another bias. I never really cared for him even back in melee. I like his moveset a lot and I have no problem playing him, I just never cared much for his design. I liked Ike and Roy a lot better. Also, the first two Fire Emblems, from what I believe, were Japan only, while Awakening was released in the West as well as Japan, so for me it makes sense to instead have a character from an entry in the series that more people probably played, especially one that plays largely the same.

Also, I just like Lucina better.

I understand, I was speaking more from a general standpoint. If it were up to me, I would switch Marth out for Chrom in a heartbeat. But, since Chrom got passed over for other fighters, I just have to deal with it. At least Marth doesn't get int the way of Lucina coming back. I'm all out of luck for poor Chrom to make it in.

I still think he's far more deserving than Roy. Chrom is still relevant to the series. The game he starred in did save Fire Emblem from ending after all. A dumb mii costume is more of an insult than a consolation. Yes I'm still salty he's not playable. >.>

Though for the record, there is the DS remake of Shadow Dragon, which is Marth's game. It certainly gave me more of an attachment to Marth that I didn't have before. It was released in the US, so you could find a copy somewhere and play it.

 

[totheendofsin]

well first off I would consolidate all the clones into alt costumes for their original counterparts, as well as 'almost clones' (characters that are mostly clones but have one or two significantly different move i.e. Dr. Mario having a different down special) The only one I would keep is Toon Link (whose moveset should be reworked to include a different set of items than normal link) Ganondorf (with a redone moveset) and luigi (who works significantly differently from mario and has more historical significance than most the non mario characters)

that leaves

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi
Rosalina
Bowser jr
Wario
mr G&W
Donkey Kong
Link
Zelda/Sheik (I would restore the original down special
Ganondorf (reworked)
Toon Link (reworked
Samus/ZSS (would restore to brawl version)
Pit
Palutena
Marth
Ike
Robin
Kirby
Dedede
meta knight
Little Mac
Fox
Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Greninja
Duck Hunt
ROB
Ness
cap.Falcon
Villager
olimar
Wii Fit Trainer
Shulk
Pac man
Megaman
Sonic
Mewtwo
Ryu
Cloud
Corrin (feb 2016)
Bayonetta (feb 2016)

(jeez there's alot of characters in this game)



from there I would cut
Robin (his game won't be relevant anymore as it will be long after Fates has come out in america)
Charizard (need less pokemon and they wouldn't cut Pikachu)
Greninja (same reason as charizard, maybe replace with gen 7 rep)
Shulk (maybe replaced with a character from Xenoblade chronicles x)
Duck Hunt (was a fun novelty but could be replaced)
Megaman, Sonic, Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta (let's be real they probably won't want to renegotiate for most of the third party characters. I left Pacman alone because I assume Namco will be helping with the next one)

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Personally, I'd much rather see a Capcom Vs. style title from the series, they've done similar things in the past with Project X Zone and, of course, Mavhel so I'd really love to see how they translate all these interesting characters into a "Classic" fighting game experience.
While it would limit the roster, I think it would also bring more variety as they square off against the collection of legends Capcom has under it's belt and the fact Ryu and Mega Man already made the cut kinda already makes it viable.

That and Dante Vs. Bayonetta. You know you want it.

 

[Souplex]

Personally, I'd much rather see a Capcom Vs. style title from the series, they've done similar things in the past with Project X Zone and, of course, Mavhel so I'd really love to see how they translate all these interesting characters into a "Classic" fighting game experience.
While it would limit the roster, I think it would also bring more variety as they square off against the collection of legends Capcom has under it's belt and the fact Ryu and Mega Man already made the cut kinda already makes it viable.

That and Dante Vs. Bayonetta. You know you want it.

Please, no.
The thing that makes Smash great is that it's not the "Classic" fighting game experience. It's not all about combos and semi-circular inputs, it's about doing the right move in the right moment.
We don't need more homogenization. Or if we were to have homogenization, more fighters should be like Smash.

The number one characters I want in Smash 5 would be the inklings from Splatoon. They are not only one of the newest characters to come out of Nintendo in a long time, but they have so much potential to be really great fighters.

You keep on saying "Smash 4" and "Smash 5". It's Smash: Rumble, and Smash: Smackdown. It's a logical progression: Melee to Brawl to Rumble to Smackdown. We don't call Brawl "Smash 3".

Speak for yourself OP, I want more Pokemon! They actually have an excuse to have one of the biggest representations in the game, as there are literally over 700 of them, and there will be many more by the time Smash 5 comes out. However, I can remedy having too many Pokemon, as you will soon see. [paraphrased for space]I'd cut Jigglypuff for reasons that are outlined in my post[/paraphrased for space

My hatred of the Pookeymanns aside, only removing Jigglypuff is only removing a drop from the bucket while it's raining. (Seriously, we don't need Lucario and Mewtwo, pick one.

[paraphrased]I would fold characters who used to be transformations back into the characters they were transformations of[/paraphrased]

[gigantic snip]Sheik: Keep. But back as a Zelda transformation you go.[/gigantic snip]

Making Shiek a transformation again doesn't make balancing easier, as she's still a character to balance who plays completely differently from Zelda. All it does is rob both characters of a Down B, and take a step towards pleasing the nostalgia-blind Melee lovers who convinced themselves it was without flaws because they played it at an impressionable age.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Please, no.
The thing that makes Smash great is that it's not the "Classic" fighting game experience. It's not all about combos and semi-circular inputs, it's about doing the right move in the right moment.
We don't need more homogenization. Or if we were to have homogenization, more fighters should be like Smash.

Fair enough, I just personally enjoy that style and MAN I want to see how they make the characters work using those mechanics.

 

[Souplex]

Please, no.
The thing that makes Smash great is that it's not the "Classic" fighting game experience. It's not all about combos and semi-circular inputs, it's about doing the right move in the right moment.
We don't need more homogenization. Or if we were to have homogenization, more fighters should be like Smash.

Fair enough, I just personally enjoy that style and MAN I want to see how they make the characters work using those mechanics.

...I suppose if it were a side-game developed by Capcom (Or someone else, maybe ArcSystem?) it couldn't hurt. Just so long as it doesn't take away from proper Smash games.
I'd probably cut Sannic, simply because he isn't very fun, or interesting, and we need to remove all mention of him from gaming.

 

[mariosonicfan5]

The fact that you didn't immediately say that the doesn't need to be any cuts worries me. Seriously if anything the next game should have more characters not less!

 

[Souplex]

The fact that you didn't immediately say that the doesn't need to be any cuts worries me. Seriously if anything the next game should have more characters not less!

You misunderstand.
I don't want less characters, I want less bad and superfluous characters. Less clones, Pookeymanns, and Sannics, more Squidron, Wonderful 101s, Travis Touchdowns, and Ridley.
More total characters, less bad characters.

 

[The White Hunter]

I would cut one of the thousand and six fire emblem swordsmen and replace him with Snake.

I miss Snake.

I'd also like Zero from Megaman X.

Or Knuckles/Eggman.