So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

ninjaRiv

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trty00 said:
When it's something as arbitrary as a characters race, and has absolutely ZERO effect on who the man is as a character... then what's the fucking problem?

No, really, what's the fucking problem? If you're getting pissy over something as minor and insignificant as a racial change, you've got some issues. Source material be damned.

Not too mention, and this is the bit people are probably going to take offense to, with so many roles in these films going to good looking white guys, I don't really see too much of an issue with one or two bits going to someone of a different race. That's right, things aren't the perfect utopia of equality idiots tell you it is, and as far as I'm concerned, it's okay to get rid of some of all the goddamn whiteness.
People like yourself forget that these characters are important to a lot of people. I'm gonna go all the way back to the black Spider-man thing here, which I didn't want to do because I got fucking sick of that.

These characters have been around for a long time. A lot of people grew up with them or found them at certain points in life. peter Parker was like looking into a mirror for many social outcasts and still is. Black AND white, by the way. So the continued to read about these characters and fall in love with them. It's what built our community, for crying out loud.

So you can go ahead and call those people sad and pathetic but they're not. They're seeing characters they love, characters who represent who they are (Spider-man) and who they desperately want to be (Human Torch) and I think wanting nothing about them to change is perfectly valid. That's the fucking problem. They see characters having ethnicity changed because of no reason at all and they don't like it. I'd probably count myself among these people a little, although, these two characters never had a big impact on me. But there are characters who have. And I'd fight anybody who tried to change them. It's needless change for stupid reasons. Also, people like myself are sensitive to being called racist because we have a preference. That adds a lot to the fighting.
 

DementedSheep

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Are they making Sue black as well then because I though he was her brother? Regardless I don't really care. I don't think the movies have to be completely faithful to to the comics and changing skin color is not like changing the characters personality. Its also not quite the same as changing the costume since how a character presents themselves is a part of their character.
I don't think all he complaints are down to racism (no doubt many are though). You get people complaining about hair and eye color too. Some just want it as close to the source material as possible.
 

axlryder

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Jul 29, 2011
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Well looks ARE important to an extent. One doesn't need to look farther than Hugh Jackman or RDJ to know that getting the right actor to play a role can make all the difference in bringing that character to life. That said, I don't feel the human torch is really epitomized by his looks (except when he's, y'know, on fire). I'd personally take little issue with this.
 

Superlative

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ninjaRiv said:
Gatx said:
On the one hand there isn't anything inherently "white" about Johnny Storm, what cultural traits WOULD make him or any character have to be white? Being "white," as far as the United States is concerned, is just being "American," but just being American is something any ethnicity can do. There's nothing about Peter Parker's situation that means he HAS to be white, nor Captain America's (hell, maybe being non-white would give them more reason for rejecting him for military service in the first place). What's left to justify a character's race as being white? Being racist? Or a Nazi? Evidently literally being a part of Saxon mythology isn't enough reason to keep a character white because it's okay as long as the actor is good (I know there's the whole justification that Asgardians are aliens in Marvel, but a similar reasoning could be applied to the Last Airbender, where they're completely fictional setting with people of no predetermined ethnicity, and that never flies with anyone for some reason).

On the flipside, the argument that it's okay for Nick Fury to be black because he was black in the Ultimate comics is bullshit, because that STILL means that in one adaptation his race was changed. Changing a character's ethnicity for a new comic book retelling is the same as changing it for a movie retelling. If you're fine with Nick Fury being black, you should be fine with Johnny Storm being black.
Johnny is fairly privileged, which is quite a white thing. He's a handsome, blonde white guy. He's a stereotypical privileged white guy. So that adds to his over confidence and personality.

I call BS on the "if you like so and so, you haver to like this" mentality. No, you don't. You really really don't. You don't have to like anything, just because you liked something similar.
The traits you associated with Johnny are not racial. do you mean to tell me there is no such thing as privileged (rich, well educated, socially connected), good looking, and confident black men?

the racism present in this issue doesn't show itself much in the form of people shouting the N-word, but in people making statements like that which have the subtext of "black men don't have money, aren't handsome, aren't confident, and should not play characters that are."
 

Busard

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trty00 said:
When it's something as arbitrary as a characters race, and has absolutely ZERO effect on who the man is as a character... then what's the fucking problem?

No, really, what's the fucking problem? If you're getting pissy over something as minor and insignificant as a racial change, you've got some issues. Source material be damned.

Not too mention, and this is the bit people are probably going to take offense to, with so many roles in these films going to good looking white guys, I don't really see too much of an issue with one or two bits going to someone of a different race. That's right, things aren't the perfect utopia of equality idiots tell you it is, and as far as I'm concerned, it's okay to get rid of some of all the goddamn whiteness.
Yeah, fuck respect of the source material, fuck respect of the author, fuck authenticity. DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSION GODDAMIT.

It ain't much of a big deal but calling it racist or some kind of white man oppression agenda doesn't make you look that much smarter. Seems more that the PC people are jumping on the bandwagon on this one by trying to create an non issue more than the fans are.
 

Apollo45

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MrGalactus said:
So yeah,
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/will-chronicle-star-michael-b-jordan-be-human-torch-fantastic-four-88881
Michael B Jordan is considering being The Human Torch in the Fantastic Four reboot. Frankly, I think there's no problem here at all. A role, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with the look of the character, but how well the actor can capture or interpret the character, but the comic book community is complaining all over the internet. Seriously, check the comments. It's not good stuff.

What does the Escapist make of this? Do you guys care about the race of a character in an adaptation?
Probably already been said, since I'm a bit late to the party, but Johnny Storm is the brother of Susan Storm, or the Invisible Woman. Unless they significantly change their backstory together, or she's played by a black actress, there are going to be issues there.
 

theultimateend

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Shadowstar38 said:
This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.
I really liked the portrayal of Bane but I do agree he's almost never done correctly.

The games make him a mentally challenged brute and the film made him an intellectual crumpet.

Considering the multiverse there could EASILY be a black johnny storm.

I mean...look at Nick Fury >.>...

erttheking said:
You know, just once JUST ONCE I want to see a discussion on race/sex/sexual preferences that has people respecting one another, being polite, and not just devolving into throwing insults at one another. JUST! ONCE!
I'm sure you smell wonderful and make excellent food.

Father Time said:
Sounds like you think having a lot white characters is bad.
It's a bit of a one-way street. "Race is Arbitrary" but usually followed up with "But having everyone white is wrong."

If it really doesn't matter then why care either way?

Kinda like when people say that everyone is entitled to their opinions but the reality is that only opinions that are generally considered "normal" are accepted as personal choices and harmless.

I suspect people are far more concerned with race than they like to admit. I literally don't care but I often feel like it would be better to just make new super heroes or to simply call upon the multiverse. The past happened, what is done is done, best to just improve the now and look forward to a brighter future.
 

theultimateend

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fedefrasis said:
hazabaza1 said:
I think the biggest question is why their trying to reboot that series after the trainwreck that was the other movies.
To. Keep. The. Ffin. Rights.
Yep. That's the only reason :).

[notsarcasm]

They spent a boatload of cash on those things. They are scared to lose them.
 

xPixelatedx

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Private Custard said:
If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?
The funniest part of this is if an infamous black role was taken up by a white person, the same people calling you racist would themselves suddenly have a problem with "the incorrect skin tone" playing the part. People are going to have to eventually acknowledge that skin tone is a real, recognizable feature, and like any feature of the body it can make you look a part, or not look a part. But if anyone can really take up any role, why not have 80 year old man play Johnny Storm... or The Rock(Dwayne Johnson)?
 

Adeptus Aspartem

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I can say i'm incredibly indiffrent to this situation. And after reading the comments i got the feeling most of the people just have the usualy nerd-bitching going on because not every friggin detail is the same.
I'd accept such arguments IF those movies would be accurate to the source material in the first place.

Also sayin: "There are black superheroes! Make movies with those!" is pretty unfair. When all these comics originated racisms was even a bigger deal then nowadays leading to a very white-dominated comic landscape.

But i still don't forgvie a blond Bond. I can't stand it. Watched the movies and liked them but hated the blond Bond. Growing up with Connery/Brosnan just had a to big impact on me i guess :)