So Baldur's Gate 3 is happening

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Holy moly...for years I've wondered and debated the creation of this game. I have so many conflicting thoughts I honestly don't know what to think.

On the one hand, Baldur's Gate II is *the* seminal PC RPG, shaping a genre and defining BioWare as the storytellers par excellence (until EA happened). It's a life-alteringly good game, better than everything they've made in recent years. It's both deeply personal and most epic in scope. It has a great supporting cast, a rich world, complex, rewarding mechanics and a cool, fantasy story. I would love to see more and what happens next.

But OTOH, Throne of Bhaal finished the story of the Bhaalspawn, tied it up in a neat bow and did everything that a game ending should do. We got to choose whether to accept or reject the mantle of the new Lord of Murder, learned what the implications of our choice were and the fates of our beloved party members. We were immensely powerful by the end, with many HLAs (high level abilities) at our fingertips, the best gear, etc. It ended well, on a high, the story concluded.

So I'm conflicted. I simultaneously do and don't want more. If it doesn't continue the story of the Bhaalspawn, then they shouldn't be calling it Baldur's Gate III, as that is what the name is implying. That it's continuing the story that started at Candlekeep, gave us Gorion, Imoen, Sarevok, Irenicus and Melissan. Will we use our same characters/import our saves? Probably not, so already that's a negative thing.

I think almost 20 years later, only the most die hard fans and older gamers would care for the name. Will it be consolised or made for "mass-market appeal"? Funny, I just (re)installed the original games and downloaded some mods...I was genuinely geared up for another 100 hour+ return to Faerun for a few yearly replay, when City of Heroes was reborn.

So I'm excited and nervous, curious and laid back, hopeful and cynical, all at once. I both want and don't want it, because I'm afraid that in revisiting an old trove of IP, a new entry could tarnish the old. I think Larian could certainly do it justice...a talented, passionate studio who pour genuine love into their games. Will have to wait and see.

You must gather your party before venturing forth.

If we look at the Divinity series, I'm pretty sure any worries about "consolization" are going to go away, as the most common "criticism" it gets regards how old-fashioned it is. I distinctly remember a review about original sin 1 titled "your dad's rpg" lol.

They certainly have no reason to become a different company now that they got their hands on the BG world. If anything, they now get to dig their heels in further and decorate their niche with dragons and flowing wine springs.


As for the lore stuff, I'm almost convinced they'll do a brand new character/group type of setting. It's been so long that I don't think it makes much sense to un-end the finality of the ending of BG2. They may have some Easter eggs but I'm expecting them to bring out a ton of new characters and settings for this game.

 

[Elfgore]

I am honestly looking forward to seeing the first 5E video game adaptation

Glad to see we all forgot about Sword Coast Legends. That's not sarcasm either, it's probably for the best.

Yeah, I'm kinda looking forward to this. I don't have too much time for super long RPGs anymore, but what I played of Divinity: Original Sin 2 was great. Some of the most enjoyable TPC I've played. I've got high hopes for this one, plus Mind Flayers are the tit. Anyone more familiar with D&D lore know if not-Cthulhu in the sky at the end is a thing in D&D? Last I checked, Elder Brains were peak Mind Flayers.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nautiloid

Though with a seemingly improved design, less boaty.

Now you got me all excited! Wouldn't mind a little Spelljammer stuff mixing in with my Baldur's Gate.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I am honestly looking forward to seeing the first 5E video game adaptation

Glad to see we all forgot about Sword Coast Legends. That's not sarcasm either, it's probably for the best.

Yeah, I'm kinda looking forward to this. I don't have too much time for super long RPGs anymore, but what I played of Divinity: Original Sin 2 was great. Some of the most enjoyable TPC I've played. I've got high hopes for this one, plus Mind Flayers are the tit. Anyone more familiar with D&D lore know if not-Cthulhu in the sky at the end is a thing in D&D? Last I checked, Elder Brains were peak Mind Flayers.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nautiloid

Though with a seemingly improved design, less boaty.

Now you got me all excited! Wouldn't mind a little Spelljammer stuff mixing in with my Baldur's Gate.

Dammit, me too. Just imagine a crpg about high fantasy pirate swashbuckling ... IN SPACE!

 

[SupahEwok]

What makes this game a sequel to BG2 and explains the presence of the mind flayers is, I think, a callback to one of the more obscure pieces of BG2 lore. There were a few sidequests that hinted at the presence of a mind flayer conspiracy at work in Athkatla. I went looking for a summary of the clues to refresh my memory, and found this nice write up on reddit:

1) When you kill Kalah his final conversation mentions that a) he was promised something and b) he mentions cunning trolls and umber hulks. The latter is very important because Umber Hulks are almost never on the surface, they are underground and very commonly enslaved by the Illithid. Kalah is also interesting because Aerie says he's pretty weak and yet he's decently powerful when you fight him, so possibly the Illithid promised him great power in exchange for him serving them.

2) Lord Arnise's bodyguard in de'Arnise hold says his new masters have "shown him the truth through magic". Torgal doesn't use magic, but Torgal does have Umber Hulks dig underground, again connecting to the Illithid. Torgal also mentions they didn't come up with the plan themselves, someone stronger gave it to them and then threatened them into submission.

3) Tazok also mentions new masters (Firkraag), has the key to the sewers which leads to an Illithid lair.

4) If you go into the Illithid lair under the Temple District and wipe them all out you can find the Illithid correspondence letter which says:

?The base is established and the infiltration continues. The Hidden gathers followers and soon we shall dominate the minds of the entire...?

The message continues in one of the more alien scripts. The Illithids are up to something as is typical for thier race, but your being here has likely disrupted their plans.

5) Jan's sidequest involving the little girl has you meet a noble called The Hidden (mentioned in above letter) who you can reveal is an Illithid. Placing Illithid in high ranking noble positions would be beneficial for a conspiracy plot.

6) Durlag's Tower is an entire Illithid plot quest line. Durlag's family is systematically killed and replaced by dopplegangers. In D&D lore, Dopplegangers do not have any real drive or ambition and a coordinated assault like that is not something they just do. They are commonly enslaved by the Illithid and used for plots. You later find out he attracted evil forces with tentacles on their faces due to digging the foundations of the tower too deep into the underground and disturbing a group of Illithid nearby who became attracted to the tower due to the immense wealth he has. The Illithid could use such wealth to place more high ranking nobles inside Amn.

7) The Jysstev noble family is taken control of by the Illithid, and Lady Jyssev herself hints that there are other nobles also involved and mentions the Hidden.

Here's where this all comes together:

Part of Illithid lore is that they are in a very long planar war against the Githyanki, because on the plane both originated from which was the Limbo plane, the Illithid enslaved the entire Githyanki race. Eventually the Illithid were removed from the Limbo plane, breaking the mind control over the githyanki, who then sought eternal vengeance against the mind flayers. You don't learn this in-game at all but if you're a D&D buff (or played Planescape: Torment and take part in the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon) you know of it.

So we get the following:

1) Sarevok in Baldur's Gate 1 has an army of dopplegangers. As previously established, this isn't viable without enslaving, so Sarevok definitely had help here whether he knew who was behind it or not. Getting control of Baldur's Gate were Sarevok successful would be a huge win (understatement) for any group of Illithid trying to gain power on the surface. I should point out that using an army of Dopplegangers to infiltrate an organization is Illithid Tactics 101. Obviously Sarevok is defeated, ruining their plans. They attempt Athkatla.

2) Firkraag is a red dragon and in D&D lore (this isn't in-game at all) Red Dragons & Githyanki essentially have an eternal pact where they are allied together. Since the Illithid are mortal enemies of the Githyanki, this makes the Illithid mortal enemies of the Red Dragons. Tazok likely got the key to the Illithid lair via Firkraag who was seeking their destruction. There isn't many other ways to explain how Tazok so happens to have a key to an Illithid base, and due to the Red Dragon-Gith pact Firkraag would not ally himself with the Illithid. (It's also almost impossible for Illithid to mind control a dragon, it would require a community of mind flayers with an elder brain while enslaving it from birth, which isn't viable with Firkraag)

3) Illithid clearly have control over Torgal and his army.

4) Illithid infiltrated Nalia's keep with the help of an enslaved Glacias.

5) Jysstev noble family is under their control, the Lady mentions other nobles in on it as well.

6) When you beat Shadows of Amn, at the end of the cutscene you see 7 cloaked figures discussing how Charname has got too strong and they should have dealt with him earlier. Now if we take all of the above knowledge, it isn't unreasonable to assume this is the Council of Six (the anonymous ruling merchants of Amn) plus potentially the Hidden from Jans quest.

I don't agree with all of it. I specifically think Kalah and the trolls were meant to tie into the Twisted Rune or other Forgotten Realms lore instead (canonically, Amn is invaded by a monster army led by an ogre mage a year after the games), and I always took the council meeting at the end of BG2 as the circle of five or whatever that were antagonists in ToB. That still leaves plenty to make a mind flayer conspiracy evident.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

If we look at the Divinity series, I'm pretty sure any worries about "consolization" are going to go away, as the most common "criticism" it gets regards how old-fashioned it is. I distinctly remember a review about original sin 1 titled "your dad's rpg" lol.

They certainly have no reason to become a different company now that they got their hands on the BG world. If anything, they now get to dig their heels in further and decorate their niche with dragons and flowing wine springs.

I hope and believe that you're right. There's nothing about Larian that makes me worry; if anyone can make such a game they can. Certainly they're better qualified by leagues than today's BioWare.

As for the lore stuff, I'm almost convinced they'll do a brand new character/group type of setting. It's been so long that I don't think it makes much sense to un-end the finality of the ending of BG2. They may have some Easter eggs but I'm expecting them to bring out a ton of new characters and settings for this game.

Well, it is called Baldur's Gate 3, not Bhaalspawn 3. The name is because of the setting and that BG1 and 2 are canon to it. (Though the BG series is canon to Forgotten Realms lore as is). It will not be a direct sequel though, but I am sure plenty of cameos and maybe some returning companions who are weirdly de-leveled. No doubt Minsc will show up because there is a weird sudden hard on for him. (Though I think he is kinda lame).

This is a similar point so I'll address at once. The point is that naming it Baldur's Gate III suggests a direct continuation from II. If they want to write a separate, unrelated story that's set in the same universe/time-period, they can use a subtitle, like Dragon Age: Inquisition. Dragon Age 2 should've been called Dragon Age: Kirkwall for all its relation to Origins. BG3 is selling itself as a sequel, not an all-new adventure, that's the issue with the name.

I know KotOR and NWN both had numbered sequels with all new protagonists, casts and stories, tangentially linked, so I get that it's not a new thing. But BG3 is different. First, BG1 & 2 are direct sequels with one continuous narrative. Second, the only reason to use the name 3, is to attach it to the popularity and fandom of 2. They could as easily make a D&D 5th Ed. game anywhere in Forgotten Realms under license with any other name. Lastly, and this is a fandom thing, not their fault, but the fabled BG3 that all fans yearned for for years was a sequel. Not doing it is not unlike the disappointment with Blizzard's Diablo Immortal announcement.

My issue is with the 3, everything else is fine. Regardless, the name Baldur's Gate (just like NWN, KotOR and TES) have enough weight with me that I'll buy it no matter what a review site says, whatever the rest of the name is.

As for renewed interest, DnD is in a new golden age, and BG1 and 2 were remastered by Beamdog, so they have regained relevance again. I never played BG until then. (Still need to finish Dragonspear and play BG2 though).

You're in for a treat. Most players don't say a huge amount about BG1. It's good, but a slow burn and has a fairly standard, if unremarkable plot. I haven't played Dragonspear but have heard mixed things. BG2 however is stellar. Essays are written about it, web sites/forums are dedicated to it, people sought careers in gaming because of it, it set the standard for RPGs for years to come. Great characters, great roleplaying, if you can put up with 2nd Ed D&D rules, it's a great experience.

I would suggest, if you haven't already fixed your char in stone (level 8 as they would be), to consider taking a magic route for your player character. Not only is it very satisfying to grow into a powerful spellcaster, there's a sad lack of magic among the supporting NPCs. Enough to get by if you prefer something else, but nowhere near the number of melee-oriented companions.

 

[Saelune]

If we look at the Divinity series, I'm pretty sure any worries about "consolization" are going to go away, as the most common "criticism" it gets regards how old-fashioned it is. I distinctly remember a review about original sin 1 titled "your dad's rpg" lol.

They certainly have no reason to become a different company now that they got their hands on the BG world. If anything, they now get to dig their heels in further and decorate their niche with dragons and flowing wine springs.

I hope and believe that you're right. There's nothing about Larian that makes me worry; if anyone can make such a game they can. Certainly they're better qualified by leagues than today's BioWare.

As for the lore stuff, I'm almost convinced they'll do a brand new character/group type of setting. It's been so long that I don't think it makes much sense to un-end the finality of the ending of BG2. They may have some Easter eggs but I'm expecting them to bring out a ton of new characters and settings for this game.

Well, it is called Baldur's Gate 3, not Bhaalspawn 3. The name is because of the setting and that BG1 and 2 are canon to it. (Though the BG series is canon to Forgotten Realms lore as is). It will not be a direct sequel though, but I am sure plenty of cameos and maybe some returning companions who are weirdly de-leveled. No doubt Minsc will show up because there is a weird sudden hard on for him. (Though I think he is kinda lame).

This is a similar point so I'll address at once. The point is that naming it Baldur's Gate III suggests a direct continuation from II. If they want to write a separate, unrelated story that's set in the same universe/time-period, they can use a subtitle, like Dragon Age: Inquisition. Dragon Age 2 should've been called Dragon Age: Kirkwall for all its relation to Origins. BG3 is selling itself as a sequel, not an all-new adventure, that's the issue with the name.

I know KotOR and NWN both had numbered sequels with all new protagonists, casts and stories, tangentially linked, so I get that it's not a new thing. But BG3 is different. First, BG1 & 2 are direct sequels with one continuous narrative. Second, the only reason to use the name 3, is to attach it to the popularity and fandom of 2. They could as easily make a D&D 5th Ed. game anywhere in Forgotten Realms under license with any other name. Lastly, and this is a fandom thing, not their fault, but the fabled BG3 that all fans yearned for for years was a sequel. Not doing it is not unlike the disappointment with Blizzard's Diablo Immortal announcement.

My issue is with the 3, everything else is fine. Regardless, the name Baldur's Gate (just like NWN, KotOR and TES) have enough weight with me that I'll buy it no matter what a review site says, whatever the rest of the name is.

As for renewed interest, DnD is in a new golden age, and BG1 and 2 were remastered by Beamdog, so they have regained relevance again. I never played BG until then. (Still need to finish Dragonspear and play BG2 though).

You're in for a treat. Most players don't say a huge amount about BG1. It's good, but a slow burn and has a fairly standard, if unremarkable plot. I haven't played Dragonspear but have heard mixed things. BG2 however is stellar. Essays are written about it, web sites/forums are dedicated to it, people sought careers in gaming because of it, it set the standard for RPGs for years to come. Great characters, great roleplaying, if you can put up with 2nd Ed D&D rules, it's a great experience.

I would suggest, if you haven't already fixed your char in stone (level 8 as they would be), to consider taking a magic route for your player character. Not only is it very satisfying to grow into a powerful spellcaster, there's a sad lack of magic among the supporting NPCs. Enough to get by if you prefer something else, but nowhere near the number of melee-oriented companions.

Because BG3 will be set in the same version of Faerun as BG1 and 2. Skyrim is not a direct continuation of the story of Oblivion, but it takes place in the same world afterwards. Calling it BG3 lets us know that despite a new Dev, despite a new edition, BG1 and 2 are still connected. Plus sequel numbering and naming has long been fucked by games and movies. (Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, DOOM, Shadow Warrior, Final Fantasy etc)

Baldur's Gate was also made at a time when there wasn't a ton of games like Baldur's Gate. I did start a wizard character in BG1, but right now I am pushing my Fighter through Dragonspear, so I can move on to BG2. Being a wizard is hard, that fight with the assassin at that first Inn took me so many retries, and me just picking up Ajantis before hand.