So. Dragonball Super's Tournament Arc Twist (Spoilers)

[Vausch]

I am not concerned about that. In fact, it helps mitigate one of the main issues I had with the Tournament arc: everyone strong enough in the universe is from Earth... Everyone.

Sure, there are some aliens (that live on earth) and some androids (created on earth), but this is a team composed of the strongest characters in the entire UNIVERSE. It shows some very restricted imagination when there is no one else, in any other planet, that is strong enough to reconsider Tien or Krillin. It was pushing it when the extended cast was the strongest people in the galaxy (and Roshi), but now we are talking universe level and nobody joined? Really? With all the examples of aliens they found semiregularly, there is no one stronger than Roshi?

They stated that apparently universe 7 got dealt a REALLY bad hand. Between Freeza's planet/race killing empire, Buu wiping out entire galaxies, and Beerus being overzealous about his work, universe 7 only has 28 planets with their own unique sentient races to them. On top of that, they don't have time to go to the other planets so they figured they'd just stick with earth and hope that the other universes don't have anyone stronger than Gohan or Piccolo, letting characters like Krillin rely on tactical manoeuvres and trickery.

After seeing the episode I can guess they're probably going to try pulling something like having to take out Freeza before the tournament begins or they get him DQed somehow. All I know is if Yamcha does wind up replacing Buu, and it turns out he's gotten strong enough to top at least Tien, I'll be happy. "Did it even occur to you guys to ask me?!" Then proceeds to show he's been pushing himself to get stronger ever since Beerus showed up and the reason he hasn't been fighting is because nobody bothered to ask.

 

[hermes]

I am not concerned about that. In fact, it helps mitigate one of the main issues I had with the Tournament arc: everyone strong enough in the universe is from Earth... Everyone.

Sure, there are some aliens (that live on earth) and some androids (created on earth), but this is a team composed of the strongest characters in the entire UNIVERSE. It shows some very restricted imagination when there is no one else, in any other planet, that is strong enough to reconsider Tien or Krillin. It was pushing it when the extended cast was the strongest people in the galaxy (and Roshi), but now we are talking universe level and nobody joined? Really? With all the examples of aliens they found semiregularly, there is no one stronger than Roshi?

They stated that apparently universe 7 got dealt a REALLY bad hand. Between Freeza's planet/race killing empire, Buu wiping out entire galaxies, and Beerus being overzealous about his work, universe 7 only has 28 planets with their own unique sentient races to them. On top of that, they don't have time to go to the other planets so they figured they'd just stick with earth and hope that the other universes don't have anyone stronger than Gohan or Piccolo, letting characters like Krillin rely on tactical manoeuvres and trickery.

Yeah, I still don't buy it. Maybe it is because there already made a tournament arc with different characters from the Universe and only a couple came from Earth; maybe it is because in the average crowd shot from Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z there are enough non-human characters that makes aliens a reasonable occurrence, to the point nobody seems particularly impressed by Jaco and even Mr Satan has made first contact with yet another alien race and nobody bats an eye; or the adventures of Gohan and Trunks in other space in Super inevitably take them to an inhabited planet with incredibly strong opponents (and lets not even include Freeza's, Garlic's, Turtles', Slug's, Bojack's and Cooler's henchmen, that had a lot more than 30 odd designs). After than, to think there are less than 30 races in the entire universe seems preposterous. I am sure if I counted the number of alien extras in Dragon Ball Z alone, I would have a lot more than that...

Or maybe it is another symptom of Toriyama having problems with scale: remember when the universe had only 4 galaxies? or the food on the rest of the multiverse was so awful that Beerus has an orgasm with everything he tastes on earth (starting with instant ramen)? I get that some of those are done for the sake of comedy, but it kinds of bothers me when we are talking about universe scale variety and they state that they don't have enough races to fill a deck of cards; and also, even when they have a character that can travel from one corner of the universe to the other almost instantly, they had so few options that Roshi counts as one of the strongest candidates (what? there was no Namekian available? No Ankoku? No Snackian? No Yardrats? No Kashvar? Whatever Pikkon, Janemba and Tapion are? Even a couple Saibamen would have been better. Heck, ask Videl or Chaozu, at least they can fly...)

Spoiler: Don't mind us, we are just a few examples from a single galaxy

 

[Lunar Templar]

not much of a 'twist' give how it was officially leaked like, a month ago.

it's still stupid, but meh, not like I'm totally keeping up with Super anyway.

 

[Vausch]

I am not concerned about that. In fact, it helps mitigate one of the main issues I had with the Tournament arc: everyone strong enough in the universe is from Earth... Everyone.

Sure, there are some aliens (that live on earth) and some androids (created on earth), but this is a team composed of the strongest characters in the entire UNIVERSE. It shows some very restricted imagination when there is no one else, in any other planet, that is strong enough to reconsider Tien or Krillin. It was pushing it when the extended cast was the strongest people in the galaxy (and Roshi), but now we are talking universe level and nobody joined? Really? With all the examples of aliens they found semiregularly, there is no one stronger than Roshi?

They stated that apparently universe 7 got dealt a REALLY bad hand. Between Freeza's planet/race killing empire, Buu wiping out entire galaxies, and Beerus being overzealous about his work, universe 7 only has 28 planets with their own unique sentient races to them. On top of that, they don't have time to go to the other planets so they figured they'd just stick with earth and hope that the other universes don't have anyone stronger than Gohan or Piccolo, letting characters like Krillin rely on tactical manoeuvres and trickery.

Yeah, I still don't buy it. Maybe it is because there already made a tournament arc with different characters from the Universe and only a couple came from Earth; maybe it is because in the average crowd shot from Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z there are enough non-human characters that makes aliens a reasonable occurrence, to the point nobody seems particularly impressed by Jaco and even Mr Satan has made first contact with yet another alien race and nobody bats an eye; or the adventures of Gohan and Trunks in other space in Super inevitably take them to an inhabited planet with incredibly strong opponents (and lets not even include Freeza's, Garlic's, Turtles', Slug's, Bojack's and Cooler's henchmen, that had a lot more than 30 odd designs). After than, to think there are less than 30 races in the entire universe seems preposterous. I am sure if I counted the number of alien extras in Dragon Ball Z alone, I would have a lot more than that...

Or maybe it is another symptom of Toriyama having problems with scale: remember when the universe had only 4 galaxies? or the food on the rest of the multiverse was so awful that Beerus has an orgasm with everything he tastes on earth (starting with instant ramen)? I get that some of those are done for the sake of comedy, but it kinds of bothers me when we are talking about universe scale variety and they state that they don't have enough races to fill a deck of cards; and also, even when they have a character that can travel from one corner of the universe to the other almost instantly, they had so few options that Roshi counts as one of the strongest candidates (what? there was no Namekian available? No Ankoku? No Snackian? No Yardrats? No Kashvar? Whatever Pikkon, Janemba and Tapion are? Even a couple Saibamen would have been better. Heck, ask Videl or Chaozu, at least they can fly...)

Spoiler: Don't mind us, we are just a few examples from a single galaxy

All of those characters in that picture are filler characters and even then some of them had supposedly been dead for hundreds if not thousands of years. Janemba and Topion are movie characters and again, thousands of years old.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

Dragon Ball has always involved teaming up with your old enemies.
Yamcha, Tien, Piccolo, Vgeta, Buu.
Why not Freeza?

 

[balladbird]

Y'know the worst part is they had an easy opportunity to give the human characters a big power boost without it being an arse pull: All they had to do was find a way for the humans to awaken God Ki.

I'd pondered that, too, actually.

Admittedly, I'm not really the one to ask about finite lore such as that. I watched the show pretty religiously in my high school days, and saw all the way to the conclusion of the buu saga, but hadn't followed any of the post-series stuff or the movies. I actually only just started watching Super, and started in the mid-80s, because a friend informed me that Android 17 randomly came back, and since 16,17, and 18 were my fave characters back in the day, it made me feel nostalgic.

So I come back to the series, and it's all, like "Who is this cat dude with the effeminate steward? Why are there more saiyans? what's all this universe stuff?"

So, I spent a few hours wiki-walking to get brought up to speed. I feel like I have a decent grasp of things now, but definitely not enough to call out plot inconsistencies... I'm mainly just here to watch the punching. XD

 

[Vausch]

Y'know the worst part is they had an easy opportunity to give the human characters a big power boost without it being an arse pull: All they had to do was find a way for the humans to awaken God Ki.

I'd pondered that, too, actually.

Admittedly, I'm not really the one to ask about finite lore such as that. I watched the show pretty religiously in my high school days, and saw all the way to the conclusion of the buu saga, but hadn't followed any of the post-series stuff or the movies. I actually only just started watching Super, and started in the mid-80s, because a friend informed me that Android 17 randomly came back, and since 16,17, and 18 were my fave characters back in the day, it made me feel nostalgic.

So I come back to the series, and it's all, like "Who is this cat dude with the effeminate steward? Why are there more saiyans? what's all this universe stuff?"

So, I spent a few hours wiki-walking to get brought up to speed. I feel like I have a decent grasp of things now, but definitely not enough to call out plot inconsistencies... I'm mainly just here to watch the punching. XD

The way it seems to be implied thus far, any mortal is capable of becoming a god. They haven't specified if it's a ritual, but Beerus offered to Goku to make him the next in line to become the god of destruction should Beerus die. It seemed and easy method to give the humans a boost to make them all relevant and even surpass the Saiyans temporarily.

Dragonball is worth digging into some of the fine details about it because some of its history and the way Toriyama writes and creates is fascinating. He's very on-the-fly and spontaneous about what he'll add and create, and his editors have helped him create the most well known characters thus far. Cell was created because his editors complained about Gero and 19 being the intended villains, then again when 17 and 18 were brought out to replace them.

Right now Toriyama has all but passed the torch of the series to Toyotaro, the artist for the manga now. And honestly, Toyotaro's writing for the manga is LEAGUES above the anime. He gives explanations for things that weren't explained in the anime with 1 sentence and it makes complete sense when he does. He changes some elements to work better, and he captures that Toriyama magic of the art. I'd say the one downside I've seen in recent chapters is the sparse backgrounds and the skimped on Vegetto throwing the Final Kamehameha, and we haven't gotten Trunks's Super Saiyan Rage form yet, but otherwise he's done a fantastic job.

 

[Kolby Jack]

With all the crazy Universe 6 Saiyan powerups, i wonder if Caulifla is gonna see Goku and Vegeta go Blue and yell at Cabba "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT FORM?!" And Cabba's all like "I don't know how to do it!" And then Caulifla just does it immediately. I'd laugh.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Why does the phrase "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal" spring to mind?

Anywho, I'm just popping in to show off MasokoX's video about the colors of transformations. Found it intriguing:

With all the crazy Universe 6 Saiyan powerups, i wonder if Caulifla is gonna see Goku and Vegeta go Blue and yell at Cabba "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT FORM?!" And Cabba's all like "I don't know how to do it!" And then Caulifla just does it immediately. I'd laugh.

That'd be hilarious.

You know, between Cabba, Califla, and Kale; and Toppo and the Pride Troopers, I'm not even 100% in universe 7's court anymore. Certainly not Goku's, he's been a right plonker recently.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

In Z Frieza had a whole moment showing that he would never be redeemed or trusted, but fuck that, GOLDEN FRIEZA! Slim Buu as one of the most powerful and durable anythings anywhere with a good sense of chicanery and an obtuse move set that would make for a fun fight in a tournament with rules? Drop that and bring in that gold Frieza because NOBODY'S going to see his betrayal coming a mile away!

 

[Vausch]

In Z Frieza had a whole moment showing that he would never be redeemed or trusted, but fuck that, GOLDEN FRIEZA! Slim Buu as one of the most powerful and durable anythings anywhere with a good sense of chicanery and an obtuse move set that would make for a fun fight in a tournament with rules? Drop that and bring in that gold Frieza because NOBODY'S going to see his betrayal coming a mile away!

To be honest, I'm hoping they bring back the plot point in Z where Goku had to go back to the other world early after burning through his energy to go Super Saiyan 3. Like, Freeza goes Golden before the tournament even starts and Baba shows up; "And you wasted it. Let's go"

F: What, wha-*poof* *in hell* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[crimson5pheonix]

In Z Frieza had a whole moment showing that he would never be redeemed or trusted, but fuck that, GOLDEN FRIEZA! Slim Buu as one of the most powerful and durable anythings anywhere with a good sense of chicanery and an obtuse move set that would make for a fun fight in a tournament with rules? Drop that and bring in that gold Frieza because NOBODY'S going to see his betrayal coming a mile away!

To be honest, I'm hoping they bring back the plot point in Z where Goku had to go back to the other world early after burning through his energy to go Super Saiyan 3. Like, Freeza goes Golden before the tournament even starts and Baba shows up; "And you wasted it. Let's go"

F: What, wha-*poof* *in hell* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I don't know if that would be better, but it'd at least be funny.

 

[Raddra]

Some recent possible spoilers state that..

Spoiler

Freeza might betray U7 right before the tournement to jump ship to another universe and someone else might join U7 in his place, which might be Yamcha, who just shows up at the last moment.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Some recent possible spoilers state that..

Spoiler

Freeza might betray U7 right before the tournement to jump ship to another universe and someone else might join U7 in his place, which might be Yamcha, who just shows up at the last moment.

By Zeno, I hope so.

 

[Vausch]

Some recent possible spoilers state that..

Spoiler

Freeza might betray U7 right before the tournement to jump ship to another universe and someone else might join U7 in his place, which might be Yamcha, who just shows up at the last moment.

By Zeno, I hope so.

By Toribot, I agree.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Dragon Ball has always involved teaming up with your old enemies.
Yamcha, Tien, Piccolo, Vgeta, Buu.
Why not Freeza?

The difference is that those 5 were all either not truly evil to begin with, like Yamcha and Tien, or received a (sometimes very lenghty) character arc for their heel-face turn in the case of Piccolo and Vegeta. Buu initially didn't really know any better but turned through friendship with Mr Satan, then split off his evil side, leaving the good.

Freeza, on the other hand, has never been shown to be anything other than an irredeemably evil despot. I suppose it is possible, but unlikely.