So, Fable IV.....

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Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
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I was thinking about what the next Fable game should be like, if it ever comes to be. I actually got quite far into the process, and here is what I came up with.

Step 1: Go back in Time
In order for the game to keep any sense of fun, the game must stop going forward in time. Any farther, and the point of a Strength or Will-based Hero will quickly become obsolete in the face of technological progress. Which wouldn't be very fun at all. Obviously, to keep the timeline intact, we don't completely abandon the future; the game could still be seen from the point of view of a Mother/Father/Grandparent telling their children a story of Heroes of old during the "modern" Albion. But the gameplay itself would take place in the past.

Step 2: Get rid of Theresa. Permanently. Forever.
Theresa is the single biggest (and most annoying) obstacle to telling a good story in future Fable games. She's annoying, no one cares about her, she should've died after the first Fable game, and having and omniscient figure in the game kind of hampers of any the fun to be had. We need no more hand-holding from her; we should find our own way through the game; succeed or fail by our own hand, not by hers.

Step 3: Set the game during a turbulent Time
In order for there to be some really hard, morally difficult choices, the game needs to be set during a time of upheaval or turmoil. The War of Guilds, the Anti-Hero Rebellion, or from a time before Fable I would be the best.

Step 4: Make Morality Hurt
This time, the decision need to be actual, hard choices, not black/white like the older games. Not every decision should be a gut-buster, but the majority of them should leave any player with twangs of self-doubt and moral confusion. And make them count; being good feels nice, but often hurts and makes things harder. Being evil makes many things easier, but also makes other things increasingly difficult or outright impossible. And depending on when the game is set, being evil should actually hinder your overall goal.

That being said, some should still be harmless, IE: Picking what breed your dog is at the start of the game, etc.

Step 5: Have actual Boss Fights Again
This crap of "bosses" just being moderately harder enemies needs to stop. Bosses need to be real bosses; IE: Be unique, have patterns and attacks that need to be known/learned, and a mastery of the techniques presented so far in order to beat them. "Spam Sword/Shoot/Magic" should not be an acceptable strategy to beat a boss, even in SP, much less Co-Op.

Step 6: Make Combat Harder
Combat needs to be drastically harder. Spamming an attack should not work past the initial few areas. Knowing how to dodge, when to strike, remove enemy shields etc. should be the key to winning, not "Press X Repeatedly to Win Fight". This ties into the next point.....

Step 7: Remove the Jack of All Trades
Heroes should no longer be able to be a "Jack-Of-All-Trades" character. Either through gameplay or a conscious decision at the start of the game, Heroes must be forced to be a Hero of Strength, Skill or Will; choosing one precludes you from gaining any amount of serious ability in either of the other two areas. That being said, each "tree" must go farther, and give you a far greater different style of play than the other two areas.

In addition, what kind of Hero you are should make an impact on the world; a Hero of Skill cannot do the same things a Hero of Strength can, likewise a Hero of Will. Depending on what you are, different things happen; dungeons change slightly, or become unavailable because you can't handle them etc.

Step 8: Make Character Development be more like an RPG
Within each Hero area, make it so that there is the ability to uniquely shape your character. Go back to the "Enemies give EXP system" and let us decide how we move forward, rather than making it linear. For example, Heroes of Strength could choose to improve their Sword+Shield skills, or to become a mad beserker. Heroes of Skill could work on their Arrow/Crossbow abilities, or work on their Rogue-ish Dual-Dagger and Stealth abilities. Heroes of Will could become the noble Holy mage lighting the way for the world, or the bitter Frost mage for whom the very ground shudders and freezes in his presence, etc.

Step 9: Item Variety
More of it. Thats it. Lots more.

Step 10: Property
Make there be a point to owning property, besides making obscene amounts of money. Also, make property more customizable; IE You can add rooms, change more decor, etc.

Step 11: Length
The main questline should take 15-20 hours to complete, ignoring any sidequests. One should'nt be able to complete the whole game in one afternoon sit-down.

Step 12: Bring back the Menu
All of our items, stats etc. should go in a centralized one-button pause menu, like any other game out there. Make it so that we can add on to our house or something a trophy/treasure room where we can go gawk at our awesomeness, but for out in-the world exploring, a simple menu is all we need or want.

Step 13: No More Fast Travel
No more fast travel. Unless its to warp back to our house, we're walking there. With as few loading screens as possible; and make the transitions believable please; Albion is a big place. There is more than enough room to space out towns and such in the world.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
17,773
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Judging by the vast amount of fundamental changes you ask for, I'd suggest you just play a different game. Removing all that stuff would stop the game from being Fable.

EDIT: Everything you said were indeed things that suck about the franchise though. I'm pretty much done with it after the disappointment of Fable 3.
 

Rusman

New member
Aug 12, 2008
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Personally I'd just prefer it if they didn't make them anymore. Don't like them in the slightest.
 

Awexsome

Were it so easy
Mar 25, 2009
1,549
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Heres one I'd like.

If the game is trying to deal with mature subjects with its choices and setting... Stop making all the interactions with NPC's feel immature. Literally I was watching my friend start to barter with some guy in the pawn shop where the shopkeeper said, "Let's negotiate the price" followed by the character doing the only available good action... tickling him.

It's just stupid.
 

Judgement101

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Mar 29, 2010
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Fable IV shouldn't happen. They do people keep buying it? It's a disappointment literally every time.
 

Berserker119

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Dec 31, 2009
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Judgement101 said:
Fable IV shouldn't happen. They do people keep buying it? It's a disappointment literally every time.
Not every time. Fable 2 was pretty good. (Although it was the first Fable game I played.)
 

theonlyblaze2

New member
Aug 20, 2010
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I would rather have a modern Fable than a shitty knock-off of Ass Creed's dumb one.
More OT: You should probably check out a different game. Fable wasn't really a RPG, more of an Action-Adventure. The series should just go back to what made Fable:Lost Chapters so much better than the new ones.
 

dogmachines

New member
Mar 24, 2009
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Get rid of the fucking retarded interactions. Everyone sounds castrated, and don't seem to produce any words. Is this a mature game or a kid game? If not for the wife murder and condoms it would be rated T at most. I'd like to have gender specific interactions as well. How about instead of dancing with EVERYONE I only dance with the females? and morality actually matters? and actually makes sense? Why am I evil when I tell everyone to tighten their belts cause you will all die in a year if you don't? But I'll stop the rant there.
 

Lazy Kitty

Evil
May 1, 2009
20,142
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Paragon Fury said:
Step 2: Get rid of Theresa. Permanently. Forever.
Theresa is the single biggest (and most annoying) obstacle to telling a good story in future Fable games. She's annoying, no one cares about her, she should've died after the first Fable game, and having and omniscient figure in the game kind of hampers of any the fun to be had. We need no more hand-holding from her; we should find our own way through the game; succeed or fail by our own hand, not by hers.
Actually, she should have died during the first game, since I killed her to get the Sword of Aeons...
Well, if she's still alive, her brother might be too somewhere...
Now he'd make a good boss fight...
 

bak00777

New member
Oct 3, 2009
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i agree with the gettting rid of Theresea, and make them actually choose a hero path(the strength, skill, will) and boss fights. Oh and going to the Anti-Hero rebellion would be cool.
 

dogmachines

New member
Mar 24, 2009
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Since Theresea hate is all the rage, yeah, she should go. Narration that explains everything is as bad as text screens that explain everything. Maybe if the game world could more intelligently respond to us, and Molyneux would realise that even 10 year olds have a sense of good and evil(don't tell me that keeping the children workers is the evil choice, I already know that) then there would be a chance for the game.
 

guntotingtomcat

New member
Jun 29, 2010
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Um, no fast travel?

That sounds like the most boring possible experience ever. Having to traipse slowly to every single mission from you're house?
You just lost a customer.

Mind you, setting it a bit earlier might be fun, with a new story.

Can we lose the stupid, diametric black and white moral choice system though!! Please!

What's the point of a 'moral choice' if you know which one is the evil one?!

Want some tips? Factions! Personality bars! Attributes distinct from Morality!

Echo Bazaar does moral choice better than Fable ever has, and probably ever will!
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Paragon Fury said:
I was thinking about what the next Fable game should be like, if it ever comes to be. I actually got quite far into the process, and here is what I came up with.

Step 1: Go back in Time
In order for the game to keep any sense of fun, the game must stop going forward in time. Any farther, and the point of a Strength or Will-based Hero will quickly become obsolete in the face of technological progress. Which wouldn't be very fun at all. Obviously, to keep the timeline intact, we don't completely abandon the future; the game could still be seen from the point of view of a Mother/Father/Grandparent telling their children a story of Heroes of old during the "modern" Albion. But the gameplay itself would take place in the past.

Step 2: Get rid of Theresa. Permanently. Forever.
Theresa is the single biggest (and most annoying) obstacle to telling a good story in future Fable games. She's annoying, no one cares about her, she should've died after the first Fable game, and having and omniscient figure in the game kind of hampers of any the fun to be had. We need no more hand-holding from her; we should find our own way through the game; succeed or fail by our own hand, not by hers.

Step 3: Set the game during a turbulent Time
In order for there to be some really hard, morally difficult choices, the game needs to be set during a time of upheaval or turmoil. The War of Guilds, the Anti-Hero Rebellion, or from a time before Fable I would be the best.

Step 4: Make Morality Hurt
This time, the decision need to be actual, hard choices, not black/white like the older games. Not every decision should be a gut-buster, but the majority of them should leave any player with twangs of self-doubt and moral confusion. And make them count; being good feels nice, but often hurts and makes things harder. Being evil makes many things easier, but also makes other things increasingly difficult or outright impossible. And depending on when the game is set, being evil should actually hinder your overall goal.

That being said, some should still be harmless, IE: Picking what breed your dog is at the start of the game, etc.

Step 5: Have actual Boss Fights Again
This crap of "bosses" just being moderately harder enemies needs to stop. Bosses need to be real bosses; IE: Be unique, have patterns and attacks that need to be known/learned, and a mastery of the techniques presented so far in order to beat them. "Spam Sword/Shoot/Magic" should not be an acceptable strategy to beat a boss, even in SP, much less Co-Op.

Step 6: Make Combat Harder
Combat needs to be drastically harder. Spamming an attack should not work past the initial few areas. Knowing how to dodge, when to strike, remove enemy shields etc. should be the key to winning, not "Press X Repeatedly to Win Fight". This ties into the next point.....

Step 7: Remove the Jack of All Trades
Heroes should no longer be able to be a "Jack-Of-All-Trades" character. Either through gameplay or a conscious decision at the start of the game, Heroes must be forced to be a Hero of Strength, Skill or Will; choosing one precludes you from gaining any amount of serious ability in either of the other two areas. That being said, each "tree" must go farther, and give you a far greater different style of play than the other two areas.

In addition, what kind of Hero you are should make an impact on the world; a Hero of Skill cannot do the same things a Hero of Strength can, likewise a Hero of Will. Depending on what you are, different things happen; dungeons change slightly, or become unavailable because you can't handle them etc.

Step 8: Make Character Development be more like an RPG
Within each Hero area, make it so that there is the ability to uniquely shape your character. Go back to the "Enemies give EXP system" and let us decide how we move forward, rather than making it linear. For example, Heroes of Strength could choose to improve their Sword+Shield skills, or to become a mad beserker. Heroes of Skill could work on their Arrow/Crossbow abilities, or work on their Rogue-ish Dual-Dagger and Stealth abilities. Heroes of Will could become the noble Holy mage lighting the way for the world, or the bitter Frost mage for whom the very ground shudders and freezes in his presence, etc.

Step 9: Item Variety
More of it. Thats it. Lots more.

Step 10: Property
Make there be a point to owning property, besides making obscene amounts of money. Also, make property more customizable; IE You can add rooms, change more decor, etc.

Step 11: Length
The main questline should take 15-20 hours to complete, ignoring any sidequests. One should'nt be able to complete the whole game in one afternoon sit-down.

Step 12: Bring back the Menu
All of our items, stats etc. should go in a centralized one-button pause menu, like any other game out there. Make it so that we can add on to our house or something a trophy/treasure room where we can go gawk at our awesomeness, but for out in-the world exploring, a simple menu is all we need or want.

Step 13: No More Fast Travel
No more fast travel. Unless its to warp back to our house, we're walking there. With as few loading screens as possible; and make the transitions believable please; Albion is a big place. There is more than enough room to space out towns and such in the world.
your changing a butt load...its hardly even fable anymore. but still

sounds good to me! i'm on board for something like that.
 

Penguinness

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May 25, 2010
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I completely agree with the OP, and Rusman pretty much. Fable 2 wasn't great but was playable and still a bit enjoyable (despite same screen co-op being terrible). When my girlfriend bought me Fable 3, I fell asleep playing it, twice. I also get bored and quit not long after starting, though by the sounds of it I'm probably already a third way through the game, unless the predictable story progress plot points are actually tricking me into thinking it's the same as Fable 2.

They need to get rid of that yellow trail too, but that would require them to make quests that I could actually get in to so I don't zone out.

I'd like to add a step 14 but people would probably disagree: Get rid of the famous voice-actors. Sure it might be nice to hear people like Johnathon Ross and Stephen Fry, but it's just covering up bad narrative.
 

Becoming Insane

New member
Jun 18, 2008
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As awesome as the points the OP is making are, they seem like they'd be impossible to make if Molyneux wanted to keep a reasonable budget and time frame.

That said, here are my takes on the points laid out here:

1: Go back in time - ehh, I dunno. Maybe Pete will think of some way to create an future where
melee weapons are still relevant.

2:Lose Theresa - I kinda liked her in Fable 2, but I disliked her reuse in 3. So yeah, I'd say she needs to go.

3: Turbulent time period - Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how it would effect towns and such.

4:Make morality hurt - YES. For gods' sakes, the only reason we have the stupid system it to make it seem like our choices matter, when all they do is produce slightly different outcomes with different aesthetics.

5:Boss fights - Flip a coin. I actually kinda like the lack of boss fights, though a real boss at the end of the game would be nice. However, if point 6 were to be implemented, then this would be a given (I hope).

6:Harder combat - OH DEAR SWEET GODS YES. I mean, yes sometimes I just want to mow down waves of Hollow Men like there's no tomorrow, but I don't want that in Fable.

7:Don't allow the Hero to use all Abilities - More than anything else here, YES. Not only would this make the game more challenging, but it would make playing more interesting as well.

8: More RPG-like character development - Ehh... just stop giving up XP for eating pies and I'll be fine.

9:Item variety - Would be appreciated, especially in the weapons. And no, I'm not counting Fable 3's weapon morphing as "different"

10:property - Never got into it much, other than it being an easy way to make craploads of cash. I'd like to add one thing, though: ix-nay on the property degradation! Games in which my stuff breaks over time really annoy me.

11:Length - Considering that there was a lot to do in 3, I wouldn't say this is really an issue. However, please no more flower-picking. That was just ridiculous.

12:Menu - WHO ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE SANCTUARY WAS A GOOD IDEA!? There's a reason menus are so prevalent, Pete. They work.

13:No more fast travel - Only if they use dynamic loading.

14 (as posted by Penguinness): ditch the golden trail - PLEASE!

I'd like to propose #15: Either improve on my stupid dog's pathfinding, or remove him completely. Seriously.

/walloftext