So I have been playing MGSS now and...

[Kopikatsu]

But games have evolved beyond what methods MGS used, and it's storytelling methods don't compare to games like Half Life, which actually tell stories through the game itself.

I've heard this said about Half-Life a lot, and I still don't understand it. Half-Life has a ton of cutscenes, the only difference is that they let you run around in circles in a 8x8' area until the exposition is over and the door to the next area gets unlocked.

I prefer MGS's style of cutscenes simply because you actually see what the game wants you to see. I missed a lot of key moments in games like Nightmare House and Half-Life 2 because I'm busy staring out of the window instead of at a wall like the game expects me to.

 

[DioWallachia]

Maybe this will help you understand why?
http://metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs1.html

 

[DEAD34345]

I finished the first Metal Gear Solid just a couple of months ago, and found it great, personally. Admittedly it was a pretty short game, but that was the only major flaw I experienced.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

The Metal Gear series is a very odd creature. Every game seems to take one step forward and two back, with MGS4 being so heavily bogged down with exposition it got a little slow even for a fanboy like myself. Which is really odd considering the gentle balance between cinematics and gameplay that Snake Eater struck. Portable Ops and Peace Walker seemed to follow suit, with most of Peace Walker's exposition and detail being dumped in optional briefing tapes.

 

[daveman247]

And just as an aside, I've only made it to the Fatman fight in MGS2, but I dont see why the internet has a big hate-hard-on for Raiden, aside from his voice being kind of obnoxiously high-pitched.

i dont have a problem with him either, i thought he was a good character. I think most were just mad you didnt get to play as snake for most of the game.

 

[josemlopes]

Hell, if anything, like most of those PS1 classics, it's underrated now because of all the people who look back and go "Ehhhh, by today's standards that game is a piece of crap." Especially since people are always calling Metal Gear Solid (the franchise) 'overrated', and it's always because of the excessive cut-scenes and exposition, which by now should be the one most notorious thing about the entire franchise in the first place.

But at that time there was already Grim Fandango, Thief, GoldenEye, System Shock 2, Hidden & Dangerous, etc (games that had a lot of depth). I get it that the game treats its presentation in a very polished way but still I dont see how everyone seemed to ignore its flaws over the fact that it was just a good story focused game on a console. Not everygame was Doom before that.

Metal Gear for me is kind of like Shenmue, yeah its good and somewhat fresh (by having an original take on something), but that doesnt instantly make it a masterpiece that has to be praised like hell.

I just dont see it has the revolutionary game that people called it to be, just the game that took the next step in the usual evolution of gaming, like GTA III being in 3D, or Halo with the 2 weapon limit and regenerating health, or Heavy Rain/LA Noir for the more dialog focused games, etc.

 

[saintdane05]

I actually prefer the Twin Snakes for Gamecube. It has many of the improvements in both AI and Story telling (Skippable cut-scenes.! YES!). Unfortuantely, it also has some... problems with realism. Many of the movie action sequences are flat out stupid (Bullet time? Really?) and there is more heavy handed talk about the EVILS of nuclear weapons.

 

[shogunblade]

I played it when I was younger but at the time I didnt managed to advance much, my father beated the game so I still remember some things, and because of the trailer for the new MGS I thought of playing the first one again. I know that before that game there werent many games that tried the cinematic storytelling but still, the game just feels like an anime.

It does have one of its characters say that he wanted to make bipedal robots because of "Japanese Animation". In every respect, it is an anime, and why is that a problem?

Sure, there are some cool parts about it but they are somewhere in the middle of long scenes of EXPOSITIOOOOOOOONNNNnnnn because that is what occupies most of the cutscenes, they talk about something and a character mentions something new, Snake repeats the name of that thing and the guy starts a lecture on what that thing is (even on why the doors automaticly open when Snake holds a keycard).

I will grant you that one. Replaying it on PS3 a few weeks ago, I find its writing is considerably poorer than Metal Gear Solid's 2 & 3 (I wager there are some people who disagree with me, but in some ways, the others have more poor writing than the first to some degree).

The games are more Kojima's soapbox than actual story, but again, it comes with the times. The fact that anybody cared to bring Nuclear proliferation to a video game is pretty ballsy in it of itself, but that the game tried to feel like a Michael Bay production on top of that is pretty heavy. I think most video games today (Gears of War, The Metal Gear Solid sequels, even Halo) owe a modicum of respect towards MGS for trying to be Blockbuster Motion Pictures to some degree.
Kojima at least tries to make the story feel like its covered its tracks instead of letting you just call "Bullshit" on anything within its story.

And it seems that I am advancing incredibly fast since what I actually do is so small compared to the cutscenes, if I skipped all of them the game would be really short.

I will not judge the gameplay since its outdated (just avoid the guards cones or finished the puzzle-ish boss fight) and the series have moved on (although its still playable, just a bit simple due to the narrow sights of the guards) and because the game was praised for its storytelling and not gameplay (the game came out the same year as Thief, I think)

For all means it isnt bad, but it isnt necessaly good either, it just seems different, I dont know how much the recents games change the pace and style of the storytelling (I know that MGS2 is somewhat of a mess and that MGS4 has some interactive cutscenes in the mix) but overall I am just not that impressed for the MASTERPIECE.

Well, give the other ones a try and let us know what you think about those games. You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[shrekfan246]

Hell, if anything, like most of those PS1 classics, it's underrated now because of all the people who look back and go "Ehhhh, by today's standards that game is a piece of crap." Especially since people are always calling Metal Gear Solid (the franchise) 'overrated', and it's always because of the excessive cut-scenes and exposition, which by now should be the one most notorious thing about the entire franchise in the first place.

But at that time there was already Grim Fandango, Thief, GoldenEye, System Shock 2, Hidden & Dangerous, etc (games that had a lot of depth). I get it that the game treats its presentation in a very polished way but still I dont see how everyone seemed to ignore its flaws over the fact that it was just a good story focused game on a console. Not everygame was Doom before that.

Metal Gear for me is kind of like Shenmue, yeah its good and somewhat fresh (by having an original take on something), but that doesnt instantly make it a masterpiece that has to be praised like hell.

I just dont see it has the revolutionary game that people called it to be, just the game that took the next step in the usual evolution of gaming, like GTA III being in 3D, or Halo with the 2 weapon limit and regenerating health, or Heavy Rain/LA Noir for the more dialog focused games, etc.

Grim Fandango - Adventure game on the PC with a heavy emphasis on dark comedy.
System Shock 2 - First-person Shooter/RPG Survival-Horror PC game (also, released a year later than MGS).
Thief - First-person Stealth PC game (also, released a month later than MGS).
Hidden & Dangerous (I'd just like to point out that I've never heard of this one) - Tactical First/Third-Person Shooter PC game, received rather poorly on consoles (also, released a year later than MGS).
GoldenEye - First-person Shooter with stealth elements that popularized console multi-player, on the N64. This is the closest comparable one to MGS, I think. But even then, it's remembered more for the multi-player than anything else.
Now
Metal Gear Solid - Stealth-Action Shooter Playstation game.

One of these things is not like the others.

People herald Metal Gear Solid because it ushered in the new era. It's easy to look back now and think "Well yeah, it's pretty obvious they would do that." but back then, the sky was the limit, especially for consoles. PCs had all of the insane depth in games, PCs were where the multi-player was at, PCs were where a lot of the more unique games were thriving because consoles were stuck with mostly platformers and a few racing/sports games or JRPGs. That's why GoldenEye is remembered even though it's aged so horribly, that's why Final Fantasy VII is so dearly beloved by a lot of people who aren't on this website, that's why Metal Gear Solid was so revolutionary. AI that dynamically responds to what you do? Unheard of. Fully voiced cinematics and exposition? Never done before (outside of FMVs). Beautiful environments (for the time)? Just the icing on the cake. Completely fourth-wall breaking moments like needing to look at the game case to get a codec number, or needing to switch your controller port so you can hit a boss? By far different than what had been seen up to that point. EDIT: And all of it on a console, and all on one disc. Previous story-heavy games like the Final Fantasy series spanned multiple discs.

Now it's no more revolutionary than, say, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. But at the time there was no game like it.

Look, I'm not talking about it through nostalgia goggles either. I only first played it a year and a half ago. The mechanics are clunky and unintuitive, especially compared to Metal Gear Solid 3, the writing (as with every main-series MGS game) could seriously use an editor, and the actual game itself is certainly short, taking place in a very small area that only feels larger than it is because of how open the terrain is. But it did a huge amount of things for gaming as a whole, and that it's a good game itself just adds to the impact.

 

[josemlopes]

snip

I guess I see your point, its just seems that while it was a leap it wasnt that amazing leap that everyone makes it out to be, maybe its because we were younger and there was barely any internet to show us regular glimpses of the future (tech demos and the hunger for new and fresh content), maybe since because on the PS1 there was really nothing like it (it still wasnt that far ahead compared to other games from other systems) it caused a bigger impression, etc.

I dont know. I overall consider it to still be a very good game, just not the legend that it was supposed to be (I guess I also have to blame some of my friends that if I ever mentioned Splinter Cell they would start to compare it immediatly and praise the shit out of everything of MGS. They are not even similar, its like comparing Gears of War to Counter Strike).

PS: I am very positive that there were 2 CD's.

 

[shrekfan246]

snipI guess I see your point, its just seems that while it was a leap it wasnt that amazing leap that everyone makes it out to be, maybe its because we were younger and there was barely any internet to show us regular glimpses of the future (tech demos and the hunger for new and fresh content), maybe since because on the PS1 there was really nothing like it (it still wasnt that far ahead compared to other games from other systems) it caused a bigger impression, etc.

I dont know. I overall consider it to still be a very good game, just not the legend that it was supposed to be (I guess I also have to blame some of my friends that if I ever mentioned Splinter Cell they would start to compare it immediatly and praise the shit out of everything of MGS. They are not even similar, its like comparing Gears of War to Counter Strike).

PS: I am very positive that there were 2 CD's.

The re-release Integral or something had 2 CD's, because it included VR training maps and a bunch of other things.

And I could understand why you'd feel that way if you spent years being told how great it was by your friends, that kind of thing tends to happen. The hype effect, you know. Something gets built up as a monumental accomplishment of mankind, and when you finally experience it, especially if it's years after the fact, you're left underwhelmed.

 

[Waaghpowa]

snip

What the fuck is MGSS?

Metal Gear Solid Snake, the first one, I guess I should have said the number since some people arent that familiar with the full name of it

You mean Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. The first game was simply Metal Gear.

 

[drummond13]

You're playing it YEARS too late. You really have to have played the other games produced at that time and compare them.





.

 

[nefrone]

The re-release Integral or something had 2 CD's, because it included VR training maps and a bunch of other things.

And I could understand why you'd feel that way if you spent years being told how great it was by your friends, that kind of thing tends to happen. The hype effect, you know. Something gets built up as a monumental accomplishment of mankind, and when you finally experience it, especially if it's years after the fact, you're left underwhelmed.

Metal Gear Solid always came on two CD:s, even MGS4 refers to this at one point.

 

[GiantRaven]

And just as an aside, I've only made it to the Fatman fight in MGS2, but I dont see why the internet has a big hate-hard-on for Raiden, aside from his voice being kind of obnoxiously high-pitched.

Players couldn't take being mocked by Kojima via the existence of Raiden.

A character who worships the idea of Snake and trained via virtual simulation, including a sim of the Shadow Moses incedent? Players moaning and whining about having to play as Raiden was hilarious irony to a completely ridiculous degree.

Hidden & Dangerous (I'd just like to point out that I've never heard of this one) - Tactical First/Third-Person Shooter PC game, received rather poorly on consoles (also, released a year later than MGS).

The console version of Hidden & Dangerous was literally a different game. It played and looked completely different to it's PC counterpart. The PC game was completely awesome and I'd definitely recommend giving it a blast if you like strategic squad-based gameplay.

Hmm...might have to go find a copy of it somewhere. This wave of nostalgia is killing me.

 

[josemlopes]

Hmm...might have to go find a copy of it somewhere. This wave of nostalgia is killing me.

The first one is free now

 

[Casual Shinji]

I love it.

And if it wasn't for that second sniper battle with Wolf and the fist fight with Liquid, which are frustrating as hell now, it would still be in my top 3 favourite games.

This was a game filled with wonderful little easter eggs, and there was a sense that more was going on behind the scenes beyond your initial mission. Certain codec characters, which throughout most of the game seemed only there to give you a tutorial or hints, suddenly became an integral part of the story. At the time I had never seen anything like this before. Add to that the Boss fight with Psycho Mantis, and you have game experience which was rivaled by none at the time.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

I played it once or twice and really liked it but to me Tenchu was the better stealth game. Good presentation and gimmicks are nothing compared to a ninja simulator.

To be fair i`m not sure if i could play the original with same joy again since there`s much nostalgia behind these words. At least i know that i liked Tenchu way more than MGS.

 

[Avalanche91]

I actually really enjoy the Metal Gear games so far.

It's disjointed, it's shizophrenic, it's mostly cutscenes, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but every game within the series stays loyal to established lore, continuously takes the piss out of itself and keeps you guessing as to what crazy thing Hideo Kojima thought of for the next encounter.
The final conversation with the Patriot AI at the end of MSG2 was actually pretty interesting, kinda doing a Bioshock twist before Bioshock, and not as smoothly executed.

That being said, MSG2 also abandoned what ties to realism MSG1 had round the second act of the game. Vampires, bullet repellant technology etc.

 

[xplosive59]

I treat the MGS series as visual novels instead of games, as the cutscenes and deep story are what drew me to it in the first place. The only two games in the mgs series that I really enjoy the gameplay in are MGS1 and MGS3 (playing MGS3 the other day and my god the gameplay is amazing, it is the only one other than 1 where stealth is the only option if you want to do well). I also love the exposition as well, it gives you a better understanding of the entire story if you follow it.