So I made a #GamerGate video...

[Ken_J]

You know what is probably the saddest thing I've seen in all of this? Pro-GamerGate is now about defending GamerGate and attacking anti-GGers, and anti-GG is about attacking GGers. Case in point, we've all probably seen Extra Credits. Dan made a post to his twitter which was a calm, rational, non-insulting question to pro-GGers concerned about journalistic ethics[footnote]http://t.co/dY3TG6B3yU[/footnote], essentially saying what I've been trying to say for about seven weeks now, but better. He appealed to the good-intentioned, intelligent people who do exist in abundance within GG, and what was the very first response to that I saw? "Fuck you" Just... don't even care anymore. He's about as offensive as 2% milk, and the immediate response somebody had was "fuck you" to somebody who they probably very much liked a lot the day before...

Yeah that is sad. Recently I saw a crossover with EC and PBS idea channel and many people in the comments refesed to watch that episode because Dan came out against #GamerGate.

...but a person says a very rational, practical thing about GamerGate, saying that despite the admirable aims, the well is poisoned and its both impractical and counter-productive, and that these people, who he stresses are good people, should try something other than Twitter

Thing about that is that yeah, twitter is one of the worst places to have that discussion, it is one of the few places having it. The Escapist is one of the few sites that actually is having a discussion about it. When #GamerGate was in it's infancy many sites shut down the discussion, only fanning the flames.

One of the main reasons I reasons I respect the hell out of this sight is because they are having a dialogue about it rather than just shooing it off their sight. And to Dan's "What has #GamerGate accomplished?" question I'd have to say spotlight problems that The Escapist, Destructoid and GameFront has fixed. (as I said in the video)

But to reiterate my point about this whole Damn thing. Both 'sides' don't want to win, they want the other side to loose.

 

[Ken_J]

I just got a Copyright notice on this video. All I need is some porn made of me and I'll be a real YouTube channel

 

[Skatologist]

snip snip

My thoughts exactly. It isn't that there is nothing to talk about here, it's that we aren't having actual discussions, or at the very least, thoughtfully countering the better points made by the opposition.

Yeah, when everything was going down, I was contemplating supporting GG, but their methods seemed poor and harsh, their targets looked innocent and agreeable, and their goals seemed either heinous or unattainable, which ultimately led to me not liking it and seeing it in a negative light.

I'm not sure what we can do about this, but the closest thing I can consider is maybe getting representatives of both camps in the same space without the hostility being present.

This is just to big of a mess to sift through, and I would be a hypocrite if I said "this is no time to talk about journalism ethics and integrity" when it easily could be and should be. But it's not.

OP, constructing the fight between SJW and this new GG is harsh and is exactly why I may never support. Many gamers on this site and others have had that label chucked at us many times as a pejorative, so when GG uses it as their nemesis and enemy, we can't help but think "Wait...you're fighting me/people who you think like me/people I find agreeable.". GG should have never had an enemies if it wanted to have answers and discussions, but no, what I saw was multiple attacks on people like Jim Sterling and Tito for trying to shift through this mess, just like these guys, but not quite being of the same opinion of them.

 

[Ken_J]

It has a dislike. My first dislike. I am become a real YT channel.

Yeah I started this two months ago. Running a channel is still new to me.

 

[Ken_J]

I am occasionally looking at the anylitics and I notice that the vid has about equal likes and dislikes. I personally am fascinated by the reasoning for the dislikes. Not in a 'somebody doesn't like me wah.' sort of way. But more of a 'do they think I'm am on the other side' or am I just too moderate for their taste. Or they just think my video production is god awful, which is something I constantly worry about.

 

[Evonisia]

It has a dislike. My first dislike. I am become a real YT channel.

Yeah I started this two months ago. Running a channel is still new to me.

Two dislikes now, I gasp at the exponential growth of the channel as a result. I remember being subscribed to somebody a few years ago who at one point liked that he had two to four dedicated people who would dislike every single video regardless of the subject matter. One day that can be you too!

As for the video itself, well I'll watch it when I have slept, some deity knows why I'm still online when Britain's clocks have decided to revert for placebo effects.

 

[Ken_J]

snip.

Nah, video quality is fine. They're just mad cuz reasons amirite? Some people just cannot leave it be when somebody disagrees with them on something of a non-essential nature. For example, a few weeks ago somebody was bothering Jim Sterling, trying to get him to publically condemn a person because reasons, and they were nasty when he refused.

Speaking of that beautiful bastard. I sent him a message to let him know that I used him to illustrate a point in the video. Hopefully he likes it.

 

[Cooperblack]

I just got a Copyright notice on this video. All I need is some porn made of me and I'll be a real YouTube channel

Well you used Pink Floyd music.. that's just asking for a Copyright notice.

 

[aliengmr]

snip snip

My thoughts exactly. It isn't that there is nothing to talk about here, it's that we aren't having actual discussions, or at the very least, thoughtfully countering the better points made by the opposition.

Yeah, when everything was going down, I was contemplating supporting GG, but their methods seemed poor and harsh, their targets looked innocent and agreeable, and their goals seemed either heinous or unattainable, which ultimately led to me not liking it and seeing it in a negative light.

I'm not sure what we can do about this, but the closest thing I can consider is maybe getting representatives of both camps in the same space without the hostility being present.

This is just to big of a mess to sift through, and I would be a hypocrite if I said "this is no time to talk about journalism ethics and integrity" when it easily could be and should be. But it's not.

OP, constructing the fight between SJW and this new GG is harsh and is exactly why I may never support. Many gamers on this site and others have had that label chucked at us many times as a pejorative, so when GG uses it as their nemesis and enemy, we can't help but think "Wait...you're fighting me/people who you think like me/people I find agreeable.". GG should have never had an enemies if it wanted to have answers and discussions, but no, what I saw was multiple attacks on people like Jim Sterling and Tito for trying to shift through this mess, just like these guys, but not quite being of the same opinion of them.

I felt the same way about the "SJW" thing. What, to me, started out as some label for a unicorn-esque internet denzien that I personally never really saw came to include even moderate views. Views that I either didn't oppose or agreed with. And I think I spent considerable time trying convince them to not go that route. I never expected to convince anyone really and of course I didn't.

As it stands now, what else is to be discussed? I get that its been largely a shit flinging contest, but even genuine discussion, what little there was, ended in circular debates. Feels like I spent most of my time trying to correct false information only for it to be repeated again and again.

The censorship stuff is an example of this. No matter how much, or how many ways, you try to say that isn't anyone's actual goal, they turn around and say it again. What is the point of a reasoned debate if nothing is taken away from that? I understand how GG feels, and at one point tried to be sympathetic to that, but the problem is those emotions aren't debateable. The entire movement is build on a foundation of emotion that can't be reasoned with, at all.

I would have loved to believe there are GGers not emotionally invested in GG and want "ethics", but these websites have answered those accusations and it was hardly ever discussed.

Honestly, GG "might" have had a positive effect. Kotaku has improved considerably, in my view. Whether that was due to GG, or a larger shift in tone, I don't know. But their Reviews have improved a lot. I hate to say it, but they been the best I've read since this started. Again, this may or may not have been a result of GG, but if it was, thanks GG.

At this point I'm seriously done trying to debate GG. They are not going to consider anything those outside the movement have to say. It's literally been like that from day one. I know there is a hope that reasonable debate could have the slightest impact on the movement, but it honestly couldn't. The structure (or the complete lack there of) and the foundation (based on emotions) prevent that from ever happening. How do you convince someone they shouldn't be offended at contrary opinions? When you trace it back that is what this is all about, not getting these "journalists" to clean up their act, but getting rid of certain opinions that offend them. It ranges from opinions in a review and the effects there of, to trying to stop the vast SJW horde coming to take our games. Moderate or extreme, you still can't really debate it.

Its a myth that if there could be some reasoned debate that things could be worked out. Better to let it just burn itself out.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Just as a heads up, linking to your own YouTube channel or blog or what have you is against the code of conduct.

Our forums are a place to talk with like-minded people, not a place to advertise your blog, webpage, YouTube channel or commercial enterprise. Your profile has a place for such things, and that is where it should stay. If you fail to do this, you will automatically get a 1 month suspension.

It'll result in a warning/thread lock, and warnings take a long ass time to go away. You can drop the link, put it in your profile, and just mention that it's in there. That is not against the CoC, I believe. A moderator could probably elucidate on that further.

 

[Ken_J]

Just as a heads up, linking to your own YouTube channel or blog or what have you is against the code of conduct.

Our forums are a place to talk with like-minded people, not a place to advertise your blog, webpage, YouTube channel or commercial enterprise. Your profile has a place for such things, and that is where it should stay. If you fail to do this, you will automatically get a 1 month suspension.

It'll result in a warning/thread lock, and warnings take a long ass time to go away. You can drop the link, put it in your profile, and just mention that it's in there. That is not against the CoC, I believe. A moderator could probably elucidate on that further.

I completely understand that. Got in trouble for it once. While I can see how this could be construed as advertising my own channel, I see this more as a talk with like-minded people. As while yes the video is mine, it is more of a discussion peace than an ad for my work.

I felt comfortable posting the video here on the Escapist because they are one of the few places I frequent that is actually discussing GamerGate, and some of the posts I've seen have gone into the massive USE VURS DEM mentality that I feel needs to stop.

But thank you for bringing it up.