So I'm kind of confused about what an "Ableist" exactly means.

[Creator002]

Excellent. I just learned a new word.

To be honest, it just sounds like he's found a term he likes to give to people that don't agree with him.
Probably not even worth talking to (and this is coming from someone who argues with homoeopathic and alt. medicine people).

 

[Politrukk]

Even if it was a proper term before it's been abused into something silly.

just don't mind it.

 

[Silvanus]

Oh hey look the crime statistics for 2014 in which Hate crime make up less than 1% of... Actually less than .1%
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2014-crime-statistics

I really should not have to point out the absurdity of measuring hate crime as a percentage of all crime to provide a metric of its severity. I really shouldn't. It should be stunningly obvious.

 

[Politrukk]

If you go by the actual definition of the word rather than the the made up definitions those throwing the accusations of it use they would be that rare

The incidences of hate [https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hate-crime-statistics] crime [https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=131845], assault [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1540-4560.00257/abstract], vandalism [https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available]-- it's all just mostly made up, you reckon?

What utter, utter drivel. There's no compelling reason whatsoever to take such a ludicrous claim seriously.

Oh hey look the crime statistics for 2014 in which Hate crime make up less than 1% of... Actually less than .1%
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2014-crime-statistics

Well according to this hate crimes make up 119% of crimes committed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyp5CrzLMwY

WHat, are we not just posting links that don't in any way support our claims? Nowhere does that say hate crimes are .1% of crimes. All it does is list violent crimes and property crimes and we have no idea how many of those might have been hate crimes.

Its called math, take the number of reported hate crimes on the fbi database and subtract that from the total number of crimes on the fbi database whn you do this you find out that the total number of reported hate crimes is less than .1%, when you throw an arbitrary statistic to "prove" hate crime is rampant maybe dont forget to count every other crime for the year into your numbers, this is the same problem i have with feminists unable to do simple math and telling everyone that a wage gap exists

Except that page doesn't mention hate crimes

he did the math himself whilst cross checking statistics I believe.

the practice in itself may be a bit shaky but it's a rough estimate.

 

[Lady Larunai]

If you go by the actual definition of the word rather than the the made up definitions those throwing the accusations of it use they would be that rare

The incidences of hate [https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hate-crime-statistics] crime [https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=131845], assault [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1540-4560.00257/abstract], vandalism [https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available]-- it's all just mostly made up, you reckon?

What utter, utter drivel. There's no compelling reason whatsoever to take such a ludicrous claim seriously.

Oh hey look the crime statistics for 2014 in which Hate crime make up less than 1% of... Actually less than .1%
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2014-crime-statistics

Well according to this hate crimes make up 119% of crimes committed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyp5CrzLMwY

WHat, are we not just posting links that don't in any way support our claims? Nowhere does that say hate crimes are .1% of crimes. All it does is list violent crimes and property crimes and we have no idea how many of those might have been hate crimes.

Its called math, take the number of reported hate crimes on the fbi database and subtract that from the total number of crimes on the fbi database whn you do this you find out that the total number of reported hate crimes is less than .1%, when you throw an arbitrary statistic to "prove" hate crime is rampant maybe dont forget to count every other crime for the year into your numbers, this is the same problem i have with feminists unable to do simple math and telling everyone that a wage gap exists

Except that page doesn't mention hate crimes

he did the math himself whilst cross checking statistics I believe.

the practice in itself may be a bit shaky but it's a rough estimate.

there was a link https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available

 

[Lady Larunai]

Oh hey look the crime statistics for 2014 in which Hate crime make up less than 1% of... Actually less than .1%
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2014-crime-statistics

I really should not have to point out the absurdity of measuring hate crime as a percentage of all crime to provide a metric of its severity. I really shouldn't. It should be stunningly obvious.

Thats generally how percentages work, you tried and failed to prove that it was more than one percent given the statistics you showed, thats really how the game works, you wanted to make it look much more rampant than it actually is when someone threw out a random number, turns out that number was accurate

this has nothing to do with severity of the situation rather than simple numbers based of a random quote that 99% of things called isms are generally not, and while not 100% on the original topic it does show the abserdity of calling everything sexist/racist ect like some people are known to do

 

[Silvanus]

Thats generally how percentages work, you tried and failed to prove that it was more than one percent given the statistics you showed, thats really how the game works, you wanted to make it look much more rampant than it actually is when someone threw out a random number, turns out that number was accurate

It's how percentages work, yes. Congratulations. The percentage you've calculated is meaningless, since we're not discussing the percentage hate crimes make up of all crimes.

I should not have to point out how useless that metric would be; you may as well argue that since murder makes up only a small percentage of all crime, it's therefore not a significant problem. Incredible.

That is to say nothing of how you've overlooked the other links, of course. The first, you'll notice, records not only hate crime, but "racially or religiously motivated offences", which should give a much wider net when we're discussing racism as a whole. There, it records between 2,000 and 3,500 per month between April '13 and March '15. Don't be selective.

 

[Lady Larunai]

Thats generally how percentages work, you tried and failed to prove that it was more than one percent given the statistics you showed, thats really how the game works, you wanted to make it look much more rampant than it actually is when someone threw out a random number, turns out that number was accurate

It's how percentages work, yes. Congratulations. The percentage you've calculated is meaningless, since we're not discussing the percentage hate crimes make up of all crimes.

I should not have to point out how useless that metric would be; you may as well argue that since murder makes up only a small percentage of all crime, it's therefore not a significant problem. Incredible.

That is to say nothing of how you've overlooked the other links, of course. The first, you'll notice, records not only hate crime, but "racially or religiously motivated offences", which should give a much wider net when we're discussing racism as a whole. There, it records between 2,000 and 3,500 per month between April '13 and March '15. Don't be selective.

one is from the uk, one from 2002 and one from the 1990's all rather useless to to query against 2014 vs 2014 statistics, you cant take data from the UK or 1990 saying X and cross reference it with USA data from 2014 to find an accurate gauge of the problem, that is just disingenuous and akin to falsifying results about the issue as its a different culture with different statistics

regardless of severity or action needed to be taken, given numbers that can actually be used side by side its under 1%

as for a number on what % of accusations actually qualify as racist its probably about the same

 

[Silvanus]

one is from the uk, one from 2002 and one from the 1990's all rather useless to to query against 2014 vs 2014 statistics, you cant take data from the UK or 1990 saying X and cross reference it with USA data from 2014 to find an accurate gauge of the problem, that is just disingenuous and akin to falsifying results about the issue as its a different culture with different statistics

I... was not cross-referencing, and nor was I trying to get a single gauge that works cross-culturally. I'm not sure where you pulled that assumption from. Each data set is supposed to be taken independently. The UK (being where I live) is just as relevant as anywhere else.

regardless of severity or action needed to be taken, given numbers that can actually be used side by side its under 1%

...Of overall crimes, which is an utterly useless metric. Once again: you may as well argue that since murder constitutes a small percentage of overall crimes, it's not a big problem. Any thinking person should be able to say how fatally flawed that is, surely.

 

[K12]

Somebody used a word (with political and emotional implications) wrongly on the internet. Shock!

I don't really understand the intent of the original article and how your response relates to it so I don't know whether he called you an ableist justifiably or not (though I'm leaning towards not because your reply sems pretty inoccuous). To me the idea that people with mental ilnesses or personality disorders shouldn't be paired up is a dumb thing to say (and also pretty ableist).

It's a Ad Hominem argument tactic used by people who are shit at arguing (and usually prone to getting very worked up for very little reason). Well you're just a racist/ SJW/ Feminazi/ Socialist/ ableist/ Reptillian etc.

Don't let it bother you, some people are stupid.

 

[SecondPrize]

There are two main things, the first is that they like to spout crazy shit but want it accepted at face value, rather than argued against. The second is they want everyone to know how great they are, and exposing you as ableist scum lets them do so.

 

[DoPo]

If you go by the actual definition of the word rather than the the made up definitions those throwing the accusations of it use they would be that rare

The incidences of hate [https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hate-crime-statistics] crime [https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=131845], assault [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1540-4560.00257/abstract], vandalism [https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available]-- it's all just mostly made up, you reckon?

What utter, utter drivel. There's no compelling reason whatsoever to take such a ludicrous claim seriously.

Oh hey look the crime statistics for 2014 in which Hate crime make up less than 1% of... Actually less than .1%
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2014-crime-statistics

Hate crimes =/= all of racism.

 

[JoJo]

The nature of discrimination means that it is hard to see if you don't experience it yourself. While it's thankfully no-longer kosher in polite society, ableism is very much still there, even common insults refer to mental disabilities.

 

[CeeBod]

Personally I'm always far more confused by use of the term shipping in a context other than maritime or package delivery, let alone how heated the debates on it get. If someone gets heated about shipping and they're not talking UPS or Maersk, then I back slowly away, trying not to make any sudden moves - whilst also mentally making loud beeping noises of course, which is always what you should do when backing up slowly.

 

[shrekfan246]

A year and a half, two years ago, a thread like this would've had a small amount of whinging but otherwise would've mostly been reasonable people having actual discussions.

Now, though?

Glad to see it's already "SJWS!" and "PC POLICE GONE MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!" (hint: that's casual ableism right there).

It's been answered, OP, but ableism is basically anything that conflates someone's most-likely-totally-conscious actions with a mental disorder and usually uses it to excuse their actions, which are generally horrible (e.g. rape, murder, etc.) It's something that says they can't be normal, because normal people wouldn't do horrible things like that (except they would and do on a daily basis), and it also builds people with mental disorders up as being dangerous and subhuman.

From what I've seen, people with actual mental disorders who actually care about this kind of stuff don't tend to use it as a shield to defend themselves against arguing with others. I'm sure there are exceptions, there always are, but in this case the person crying "ableism!" does in fact seem to be the one acting ableist themselves.