So, now that the honeymoon period is over... (Skyrim thread)

[Krantos]

I also felt like the game was IMPOSSIBLE to roleplay in, the skill system kept me in a state of mind that I was ALWAYS playing a game. Need higher Blacksmithing? Better craft Iron Daggers for 2 hours. Need higher Barter? Better sell all those Iron Daggers I made ONE AT A TIME.

I think this right here was your problem. Typically, the people who love the games (for it applies to all TES games) most are those of us who are able to just focus on doing what we want and, more or less, let our skills take care of themselves. I literally just stopped playing before posting, and I honestly don't know what any of my skill levels are. I know my sneak is at 100, and my archery and one handed are somewhere between 65 and 75, but aside from that, no idea.

The problem is, a lot of people aren't able to just let go like that, or they don't want to. They're constantly trying to maximize profit from dungeon diving (i.e. loading up, going back to sell, going to another city to sell once the merchants in the first city run out, going back to pick up more gear, repeat), or planning their characters out from level 1 to 50. And that's fine. I've always said TES games aren't for everyone.

But if you are interested in seeing how those of us who love it play, you need to let go of a lot of habits.

Here are a couple tips:

1. Never plan your character's skills/perks beyond the next couple of levels. If you plan too far ahead you're just going to get bored because you resort to grinding to get to the perks/levels you want.

2. Fast travel sparingly. The game world is beautiful and expansive, give yourself the chance to enjoy it.

3. Don't over-optimize your equipment. Swapping out weapons and armor is fine and a good idea, but don't be afraid to use sub par gear if you think it looks better or fits the character better.

4. Adjust the difficulty anytime you want. I typically play all my characters on Adept (default) when they first start, but then bump it up to Expert when they get strong enough. This helps the game have some challenge without forcing me to cheat the system at all.

5. Pick a personality for your character. This could also include a backstory, aspirations, etc. Stick to this as much as possible. I find I have more fun with characters if I'm not afraid to turn down some quests they wouldn't take because of their personality. For example, the character I was playing earlier is Master of the Thieves guild and slightly vain, so she doesn't take delivery quests or other menial tasks. She thinks its beneath her.



Again, Skyrim, and TES games in general, aren't for everyone. If you're not able to, or simply have no interest in, simply letting go and playing the character you won't really like it. Simple as that.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

For me it was the lack of choices within the quests.

In New Vegas nearly every quest could end in several different ways, but in Skyrim your choices are limited to either "do it" or "don't do it".

The whole world of Skyrim itself also felt like a beautifully constructed maquette; It was highly detailed, but it lacked any sense of live. This was again a result of the game not allowing much choice in how you interacted with the world.

Very much this. I felt like the game wanted me to look and appreciate it rather that play it. I was told the very world rested on my shoulders and my ability to slay dragons. But the world seemed to ignore me entirely and that I had no real influence at all. The game had a very "look but don't touch" attitude towards me, like a museum. Unfortunately, it was a very boring museum.

 

[Casual Shinji]

For me it was the lack of choices within the quests.

In New Vegas nearly every quest could end in several different ways, but in Skyrim your choices are limited to either "do it" or "don't do it".

The whole world of Skyrim itself also felt like a beautifully constructed maquette; It was highly detailed, but it lacked any sense of live. This was again a result of the game not allowing much choice in how you interacted with the world.

Very much this. I felt like the game wanted me to look and appreciate it rather that play it. I was told the very world rested on my shoulders and my ability to slay dragons. But the world seemed to ignore me entirely and that I had no real influence at all. The game had a very "look but don't touch" attitude towards me, like a museum. Unfortunately, it was a very boring museum.

Also, after a certain time leveling up falls dead in it's track.

Seeing as the game only levels when you use a skill and not when you defeat an enemy or finish a quest, once the main skills you've been using reach 100 leveling literally stops. You can ofcourse try and use other skills, but why would I use my weak one-handed attacks for the sake of leveling when I can kill a giant with 3 shots of my bow?

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Here are a couple tips:

1. Never plan your character's skills/perks beyond the next couple of levels. If you plan too far ahead you're just going to get bored because you resort to grinding to get to the perks/levels you want.

2. Fast travel sparingly. The game world is beautiful and expansive, give yourself the chance to enjoy it.

3. Don't over-optimize your equipment. Swapping out weapons and armor is fine and a good idea, but don't be afraid to use sub par gear if you think it looks better or fits the character better.

4. Adjust the difficulty anytime you want. I typically play all my characters on Adept (default) when they first start, but then bump it up to Expert when they get strong enough. This helps the game have some challenge without forcing me to cheat the system at all.

5. Pick a personality for your character. This could also include a backstory, aspirations, etc. Stick to this as much as possible. I find I have more fun with characters if I'm not afraid to turn down some quests they wouldn't take because of their personality. For example, the character I was playing earlier is Master of the Thieves guild and slightly vain, so she doesn't take delivery quests or other menial tasks. She thinks its beneath her.



Again, Skyrim, and TES games in general, aren't for everyone. If you're not able to, or simply have no interest in, simply letting go and playing the character you won't really like it. Simple as that.

1. I can plan out my character in a Fallout game from 1 to 60 and still have fun because of how easy it is to roleplay a character. I can choose an aesthetic and play that way. I can choose the weapons I want, the clothes I cant, and even the dialogue options I want that would fit the character I want to play. In Skyrim, all I'm doing is looking for the next best weapons and armor.

2. I already fast-travel sparsely. In the Hardcore mode in New Vegas, fast-traveling too far would leave you deathly dehydrated, starving, and dying from exhaustion. Not something you want to be hit with if you pop up with a Legionaire Assassin squad staring you down.

3. Over-Optimizing was the only thing I could find that felt like any king of progress.

4. I moved the difficulty around quite a bit. Mostly when a dragon would show up, because I knew fighting the scaley bastard on Expert would be like 15 minutes of watching him circle me in the sky because I had the audacity to play a melee character.

5. Making a backstory for a character in Skyrim felt incredibly pointless to me because of how unimmersive the game was. I don't even get to TALK to the people I'm supposedly fighting a war with despite being the only thing keeping a horde from slaughtering the inhabitants withing the city.

A big issue I have is how little the game seems to care about the Player or the characters they're supposed to interact with. They're just people shaped speakers waiting for the protagonist to stumble by on their next loot-selling romp so they can speak their few lines of dialogue, give out their fetch quest, or shout some ambient sounds to fake a living world that's really just a sterile lab full of pretty pictures.

 

[Candidus]

Uninstalled. Reported. Called the cops. Etc.

It's empty. The greatest character in the game is the landscape, and it's not a warm companion. The NPCs are as barren as those endless, brown, craggy steppes in Morrowind. The most fun that can be had in Skyrim is using the console to fill Whiterun with cabbages. Once you've done that, there's really nothing else left.

I doubt I'll ever play it again. I'm still sinking a few months annually into Baldur's Gate. I just wish there'd been a lot more of THIS in THAT.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

For me it was the lack of choices within the quests.

In New Vegas nearly every quest could end in several different ways, but in Skyrim your choices are limited to either "do it" or "don't do it".

The whole world of Skyrim itself also felt like a beautifully constructed maquette; It was highly detailed, but it lacked any sense of live. This was again a result of the game not allowing much choice in how you interacted with the world.

Very much this. I felt like the game wanted me to look and appreciate it rather that play it. I was told the very world rested on my shoulders and my ability to slay dragons. But the world seemed to ignore me entirely and that I had no real influence at all. The game had a very "look but don't touch" attitude towards me, like a museum. Unfortunately, it was a very boring museum.

Also, after a certain time leveling up falls dead in it's track.

Seeing as the game only levels when you use a skill and not when you defeat an enemy or finish a quest, once the main skills you've been using reach 100 leveling literally stops. You can ofcourse try and use other skills, but why would I use my weak one-handed attacks for the sake of leveling when I can kill a giant with 3 shots of my bow?

The skill system was far too "grindy" for me. Need higher Heavy Armor? "Better find a bandit or a wolf to kick the shit out of me for a while I through back health potions like a freshman on nickel beer night." If i need a higher skill in a Fallout game? Dump some points in it on your next level up and move on.

 

[hazabaza1]

I got a sort of burnout in the first week or so, but I'd still say it's great. While features like to combat or story don't excel over any games, it's probably still the best Elder Scrolls game I've played. Great game, not fantastic, but I'd rather play it over many others.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

I got a sort of burnout in the first week or so, but I'd still say it's great. While features like to combat or story don't excel over any games, it's probably still the best Elder Scrolls game I've played. Great game, not fantastic, but I'd rather play it over many others.

I can respect that. But you'll always find me in wandering the Wasteland LONG before you'll see me step foot in Tamriel again.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I honestly haven't touched it for about a month.

Though as a disclaimer to that, the Honeymoon period was one of the best I've had with any game I've gotten. The world was incredibly beautiful, and it was pretty crazy to see the different merging of various winter biomes.

The only reason I really couldn't stay invested in it is because I pretty much did everything, or at least the basics of everything. That, and the cities. They really weren't that engaging. I think making a few of the smaller ones a bit bigger would have been nifty.

Still think it is one if not the best example for hype can make money and will buy your game the Game of the Year award. Reasons below.

Spoiler

Boring Combat - Worse then Minecraft's, only with the addition of duel-wielding which isn't anything special.

Colors Blended Together in a Gray and Brown Mix - Go anywhere, I mean fricking anywhere, and it will look very similar or identical if you go from cave to cave. The colors are either brown, shades of gray or white, with very little in between.

Looked to Real Worldy - And this is my biggest hatred with how it looks. It looks like a freaking boring hike in the woods. It would have been nice if it looked actually good but it doesn't.

Sound - Theres so little of it and what is there is replayed every thirty seconds.

RPG is missing the RP parts - It isn't a Role Playing Game when the games main two actions is kill thing or talk to thing, with zero middle ground.

Leveling System Makes Game Harder - If your using something like Stealth then be prepared to be killed thousands of times by everything.

Leveling Forces You Into a Certain Skill - If you play a archer then get used to using bows.

Bad Writing - This can be seen everywhere. Why did I have to X thing when I could have just done Y and save 50 minutes. Or those very bad accents that you hear throughout the game.

Overall, its still the horrid gaming experience I knew was coming.
[I swear to zombie baby jesus that if someone quotes me to combat my opinion on this by saying that this is not true, I will rip out your internet spinal column.]

Prepare for some spine ripping. Would it make you angry if I said that I disagree with almost everything you said here?

Combat was fun, provided you mix it up and don't shoehorn yourself into one class. I played a bit of everything, and had a good time.

Colors? That "different shades of gray" argument is getting weak. The land is based off of a Tundra. As in, there's gonna be snow everywhere, being set in a very mountain heavy world. And to that, I still think it's one of the most beautiful games out there. The caves being a little samey? Sure, I'd give you that one.

Real Wordly? I really don't know what to make with this one. I guess look above to the colors argument. It tried to convey a gritty and harsh world. Not everything can be World of Warcraft.

I'm not much of a Role Player, but from the sounds of it you're the only one who had this problem. The amount of Role Playing threads would contest to that.

Wasn't stealth the easiest thing to use? I think that goes hand in hand with not shoehorning yourself into one class role.

And once again, I played a hybrid of just about everything. I flat out just disagree with that. In fact, that was the whole point of the leveling system for this game, in order to get people to try and not just play as a pure mage, or a pure archer.

Bad writing? Sure, I guess. To the point of where I cared for very few characters, I absolutely agree with that. It wasn't horrendous, and got the job done. But the Accents? The accents were fucking awesome. I will fight you to the death for that. I think they're what saved the shitty writing.

And finally, good for you. It's not impressive to say a games gonna suck before it even comes out. In fact, it's obnoxious. And you shouldn't be bragging about that.

 

[DanielBrown]

Got my platinum, and had been in a vast majority of the dungeons, since two weeks after it was released and haven't played it since. Itching a bit to start it up again, but I got lots of other games to play.
The framerate issues kind of keep me from diving into it another time. Not sure if they've fixed it now or not.

 

[hazabaza1]

I got a sort of burnout in the first week or so, but I'd still say it's great. While features like to combat or story don't excel over any games, it's probably still the best Elder Scrolls game I've played. Great game, not fantastic, but I'd rather play it over many others.

I can respect that. But you'll always find me in wandering the Wasteland LONG before you'll see me step foot in Tamriel again.

To be honest, I really want to get back into New Vegas, but I got it fully on steam, and it's big bloody download, so I've just been putting it off.
WHOOPS.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Got my platinum, and had been in a vast majority of the dungeons, since two weeks after it was released and haven't played it since. Itching a bit to start it up again, but I got lots of other games to play.
The framerate issues kind of keep me from diving into it another time. Not sure if they've fixed it now or not.

Do you play on PS3? Because the issues are directly cause by the architecture of the console. It literally CAN'T be fixed. The way the game is SUPPOSED to work is that the game stops rendering something when you get far enough away, but on the PS3, it NEVER STOPS RENDERING THINGS. So after you walk far enough, the game is rendering SO MUCH that you'll be playing a powerpoint in about an hour and a half.

 

[Krantos]

*snip

It all comes down to how much that stuff bothers you. If those things are enough to ruin the game for you then there's nothing really for me to say. They didn't bother me. And yes, I acknowledge the characters are (mostly) forgettable, and most of your other points.

The difference might be partially attributed to looking for different core engagements (see the last three Extra Credits episodes on Western and JRPGs), but I largely think it just comes down to taste.

The only thing I will comment on is your statement that it is "unimmersive." Immersion, I think is a term that is bandied about too much. Immersion is really a personal experience. What makes a game immersive to one person might be the very thing that makes it unimmersive to another. Saying "I was immersed" is fine, but calling the game itself immersive, I think, is misleading. The reason is probably tied to the fact that most people have different things that pull them out of the experience. For you it was the skill system and wooden nature of the NPCs. For me it's a game's HUD. There's no one formula.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

I got a sort of burnout in the first week or so, but I'd still say it's great. While features like to combat or story don't excel over any games, it's probably still the best Elder Scrolls game I've played. Great game, not fantastic, but I'd rather play it over many others.

I can respect that. But you'll always find me in wandering the Wasteland LONG before you'll see me step foot in Tamriel again.

To be honest, I really want to get back into New Vegas, but I got it fully on steam, and it's big bloody download, so I've just been putting it off.
WHOOPS.

Did you get the DLC? New Vegas has some of THE best DLC you'll find for a game. Period. Every single on of them adds hours of content and a slew of interesting, dynamic characters. Not to mention TONS of new perks, weapons, and armors to play around with.

 

[Zeema]

The big gripe for me is that there is only 2 ways a mission ends

 

[hazabaza1]

I got a sort of burnout in the first week or so, but I'd still say it's great. While features like to combat or story don't excel over any games, it's probably still the best Elder Scrolls game I've played. Great game, not fantastic, but I'd rather play it over many others.

I can respect that. But you'll always find me in wandering the Wasteland LONG before you'll see me step foot in Tamriel again.

To be honest, I really want to get back into New Vegas, but I got it fully on steam, and it's big bloody download, so I've just been putting it off.
WHOOPS.

Did you get the DLC? New Vegas has some of THE best DLC you'll find for a game. Period. Every single on of them adds hours of content and a slew of interesting, dynamic characters. Not to mention TONS of new perks, weapons, and armors to play around with.

I got what people have called the good ones. Avoided Dead Money and... another one I forgot the name of.
But still, I should try it out soon. Should be enjoyable.

 

[3quency]

5. Pick a personality for your character. This could also include a backstory, aspirations, etc. Stick to this as much as possible. I find I have more fun with characters if I'm not afraid to turn down some quests they wouldn't take because of their personality. For example, the character I was playing earlier is Master of the Thieves guild and slightly vain, so she doesn't take delivery quests or other menial tasks. She thinks its beneath her.

Pretty much this.
It actually took a horribly immersion-breaking OOC moment to make me realise I was actually putting more into the game than there actually is. I enjoy it because I'm thinking more as my character than anything else. The voice-acting isn't too horrible so most of the time I read between the lines in conversations to actually feel like my character.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

*snip

It all comes down to how much that stuff bothers you. If those things are enough to ruin the game for you then there's nothing really for me to say. They didn't bother me. And yes, I acknowledge the characters are (mostly) forgettable, and most of your other points.

The difference might be partially attributed to looking for different core engagements (see the last three Extra Credits episodes on Western and JRPGs), but I largely think it just comes down to taste.

The only thing I will comment on is your statement that it is "unimmersive." Immersion, I think is a term that is bandied about too much. Immersion is really a personal experience. What makes a game immersive to one person might be the very thing that makes it unimmersive to another. Saying "I was immersed" is fine, but calling the game itself immersive, I think, is misleading. The reason is probably tied to the fact that most people have different things that pull them out of the experience. For you it was the skill system and wooden nature of the NPCs. For me it's a game's HUD. There's no one formula.

You're very correct. Those two things are my biggest irks about the game. Like I said originally though, I wouldn't say the game is "bad" but my experience with the game was one of tedium and boredom. All of these things are subjective, true. But that's kind of how discussions work. There are really not "factual" arguments that can be made for either side. Since what I hate about the game can be something that absolutely MADE the game for someone else. But I think whether or not a game is labeled as immersive is a very valid point for or against a game. Especially one like this. It's meant to drop you into a world and play a character any way you want. I couldn't do that because the game stonewalled me from doing so with it's skill system and boring NPCs.

 

[WaReloaded]

Need higher Blacksmithing? Better craft Iron Daggers for 2 hours. Need higher Barter? Better sell all those Iron Daggers I made ONE AT A TIME.

I don't know why, but that made me laugh so hard. Don't worry, it's a good thing.

OT: I haven't played the game in around 3 weeks? But, that's only because my CPU overheated and I've been working towards repairing my PC, etc. Anyway, I still find Skyrim to be incredibly fun, however, I think Oblivion had a bigger impact on me as I just didn't put it down for the the entire time I had a 360 whereas with Skyrim, it's only been two months and I've already put it down...

 

[Scrustle]

I've been taking the game at a rather leisurely pace because I wanted it to last, and I'm still having as much fun with it as always. Although I'm not playing it as much as I did on release it's still one of my main go to games at the moment. I still think it's as great as when I first got it, but I am really ready for an expansion now. I've explored most of Skyrim and am pretty familiar with everything in it, it's time to change things up a bit.