So...Other M wasn't a terrible game.

[Johnny Novgorod]

Why have there been so many threads trying to defend Other M lately?

Because apparently Nintendo just "Other M'd" Star Fox, as far as worthless sequels go.

I mean, sure, I've seen some of the defensiveness over Star Fox, but why come back to Other M now? At least wait until Federation Force comes out.

I guess the wait for a new Star Fox game was about as hyped as for a new Metroid game back then?

 

[Sean Renaud]

I thought we collectively agreed to pretend that Hunters didn't exist.

I actually quite enjoyed Other M from a gameplay perspective and I'm less offended by the story than most. As for Star Fox Zero, haven't played it, probably won't as I don't have a Wii U but really a third remake of the same game? Has any series ever done that?

 

[renegade7]

Other M is an okay game, but that's really what my biggest complaint was with it in the first place: for such a respected series, I expected better than just "okay". Especially because it was trying to add character depth and backstory to some of the most important figures in the Metroid universe (Mother Brain, Adam Malkovich, the Federation government, Samus herself) but just did it in really kind of a sloppy way. It was okay purely on its own merits, but it was frustrating because it represented a lot of missed opportunity.

The game wanted to be an opportunity to explore Samus's personal and military background, to expand on the characterization that the Federation was given in Fusion, and to maybe add some new characters to the Metroid canon. And it really just did that so clumsily.

First, looking at the Federation. We know from Fusion that the Federation is not always completely above board. They were cloning Metroids in a secret laboratory and were ready to attempt to weaponize the X parasite. In Metroid Prime 2, it was subtly indicated the Federation military, or at least portions of it, operates without much oversight: why was a single lone patrol operating in a derelict sector of space with no one knowing where they were or what they were doing? Either there's a weak chain of command, or it is common practice to give individual units a great deal of discretion in how they carry out their duties. In Metroid Prime 3, the Federation demonstrates a complete willingness to experiment on human soldiers with the Phazon technology despite being fully aware of what it was doing to Space Pirate soldiers.

Then there's Hunters, in which not one but two of the major antagonists of the game are the results of Federation experiments gone awry.

At the end of Fusion, Samus goes on the run, indicating that she would be likely tried and punished as a traitor or terrorist for her actions. This would seem to be unusual. Sure, she destroyed the BSL, but supposedly extensive data existed supporting the conclusion that it was necessary. And bear in mind, this is someone who had by that point gotten away with destroying entire planets.

Which brings us around to the "authorization" scheme by which Samus acquires new powers in Other M. It seems clear that the intention of that was to show Samus's intense loyalty to the Federation. This has been demonstrated in the past. For instance, in MP3 she is not bothered in the slightest at being used as a guinea pig for the experimental Phazon Enhancement Device. And the words of the surgeon who woke her up in the game made it clear that it was a completely opportunistic decision: the Federation would reward Samus's loyalty by turning her into a weapon without even asking her, despite knowing fully well that it would be a risk to her own life. If you read the lore acquired from scans in the game, you'll notice that this is exactly what the Space Pirates are doing. And she doesn't even seem to mind this. After Metroid II and before Super Metroid, she delivers the Metroid larva to a Federation laboratory based on findings that it could be used "for the good of the universe". At no point does she ask one very basic question: were the Space Pirates who stole the Metroids in the first place perhaps thinking literally the exact same thing?. It was in Fusion where she fully realized the depth of the Federation's wrongdoing, and Other M was supposed to be the point in the story where her loyalty starts to break down.

So the problem isn't that a mediocre story interfered with the gameplay. First and foremost, the problem was that the story was mediocre, because of all of the opportunity that was lost to explore those things.

I don't think it's really an issue of sexism, as some other critics pointed out. It's just sloppy writing. The writers tried, unsuccessfully, to basically mix Samus's character of loyalty, stoicism, and determination with what was supposed to be a hugely emotional reveal about her backstory. It just wasn't done well, and one consequence was that it did come across as a bit sexist.

 

[Hawki]

I thought we collectively agreed to pretend that Hunters didn't exist.

I actually quite enjoyed Other M from a gameplay perspective and I'm less offended by the story than most. As for Star Fox Zero, haven't played it, probably won't as I don't have a Wii U but really a third remake of the same game? Has any series ever done that?

I'd like to pretend Hunters doesn't exist, but I think in any series, you have to take the bad with the good (looking at you Blokamp). Hunters is bad, but its badness is confined to the game by itself.

As for Star Fox Zero, it's the third version, second remake. And to answer your question, Doom.

At the end of Fusion, Samus goes on the run, indicating that she would be likely tried and punished as a traitor or terrorist for her actions. This would seem to be unusual. Sure, she destroyed the BSL, but supposedly extensive data existed supporting the conclusion that it was necessary. And bear in mind, this is someone who had by that point gotten away with destroying entire planets.

I think Fusion does leave it open to Samus being hunted (lord knows I've dabbled with that idea in Metroid fanfics), but in reality, I think it's 50/50. Fusion does end on a somewhat optimistic note. Honestly, I'm fine with Fusion being the finale of the series (as in, the last game chronologically). It probably doesn't help Nintendo that Samus's look is now completely different at the end (heck, even the start) of Fusion from what we're used to, and with every game since having had Samus in her usual power suit...yeah.

 

[Yoshi178]

people shit on Other M too much. Hunters was the real turd of the Metroid series.

Ok...but come on dude, that was a handheld spinoff. That's like saying that "Mario is Missing" was the worst Mario game.

Other M was a direct Metroid game on their flagship console. As such, it's held to a much higher standard.

They decided to hand it to a team that immediately infantilized and emasculated the protagonist, because...you know..."woman emotions". It was insulting, to say the least. A panic attack? Seriously? How often do other mainstream, male, protagonists have acute anxiety when facing their primary antagonist...for the third or fourth time?

You can't simply justify a bifurcation of a game into it's gameplay and "everything else" elements, particularly for a game series so heavily dependent on atmosphere and environment. The storyline and characterization are so unbelievably bad, they suck everything else about the game, like a black hole, into an infinitely dense turd singularity.

no it's not. Metroid Prime Hunters wasn't a spin off. it's an Interquel in the Metroid Prime timeline set between Metroid Prime 1 and Metroid Prime 2 Echoes.

and being a handheld game doesn't excuse it from being the massive turd that it is. Metroid Fusion and Metroid II Return of Samus were also handheld games and neither of those were anywhere near as shit as Metroid Prime Hunters was.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

...I enjoyed Hunters. Certainly wasn't the cream of the crop but nothing to decry 'fanon discontinuity!' over.

And Other M... I dunno man. Story was garbage, characters were garbage, VA was garbage, plot was... alright. Gameplay was very weirdly controlled an had a number of bugs to it, but wasn't offensive to play. The biggest problem was it was just so hard to care about the game, since everyone and everything involved in the story was Objectively Terrible.

It was adequate gameplay with awful plot - so neither saved the other. The gameplay wasn't good enough to play through the plot, and the plot wasn't good enough to justify the sub-par gameplay. If the controls had been tighter or the plot better written odds are Metroid Other M would be seen in a more favourable light, but as it stands it's a disappointing point for the series after the excellence that was the Prime series.

...Hell, that's what's probably made everyone decry Other M as the Literal Worst as well - it followed on after Prime 3: Corruption, which was fucking awesome. It's pretty jarring to go from a game that's a 9/10 (literally 90/100 on Metacritic) to a game that is arguably a 4/10 in quality.

 

[Myria]

I have never seen a game partake in character-assassination to the degree that Other M does.

Third Birthday was worse, IMHO.

Then again, as a huge Parasite Eve 1/2 fan I'm biased.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

If you took out all the story, speaking characters and related IP...then it's not bad. I vaguely remember completing it before i cared much about games. The only distinct memory is of the monotone voice actor. Perhaps it's better to forget the details. Have to wonder though, why would Nintendo pass on the responsibility of their strongest female protagonist to a developer very well known for objectifying women? Were they intending to sabotage Samus or did they never really care?

 

[Pseudonym]

I haven't played much of it, and I haven't played much of other metroids. I only played fusion to completion though I did play metroid fusion multiple times.

Now, I'm not going to gloss over or deny the flaws. The voice-acting is terrible. The writing is beyond terrible, demonstrating an astounding lack of narrative structure and pacing while presenting the theme of "motherhood" with a ham-fisted lack of tact.

I think these are the games' major problems. I agree at least in sofar as that beyond this, the game is certainly not awful.

As for the linear structure? It felt a lot like Metroid Fusion, which, in my mind, was a good game. If one didn't like Fusion, I can understand why they didn't like Other M.

Well, I'd like to point out something in common and some differences between those two games. What they have in common is that metroid fusion also had some story bits that are the same kind of awful as metroid other m. I mean, those elevator monologues in particular. Those were bad and whiny and silly and out of charactar. A major difference however is that there isn't as much story and more importantly that the story is slightly less intrusive in the gameplay.

Metroid fusion takes you through it's space station linearly, but it is less 'linear' in one respect that, at least to me, instantly elevates the game above all of the 3D metroids I've (briefly) played. I control Samus until I choose not to anymore. There is no auto-aim which decides for me where to look and shoot and I cannot in the middle of gameplay be interrupted by a cutscene. None of the dialogues scenes can be started without me consciously standing on a dialogue pad in a navigation room or an elevator. Even when the game forces me to go into one of those dialogue scenes it doesn't just start the scene because I opened a door or because it feels like it. It just closes the doors and then waits for me to continue playing. It feels like I am playing the game until I relinquish control, whereas other m feels like I am playing the game until the director decides he wants a cutscene now which he unfortunately wants, way too often.

 

[Hawki]

Well, I'd like to point out something in common and some differences between those two games. What they have in common is that metroid fusion also had some story bits that are the same kind of awful as metroid other m. I mean, those elevator monologues in particular. Those were bad and whiny and silly and out of charactar. A major difference however is that there isn't as much story and more importantly that the story is slightly less intrusive in the gameplay.

Metroid fusion takes you through it's space station linearly, but it is less 'linear' in one respect that, at least to me, instantly elevates the game above all of the 3D metroids I've (briefly) played. I control Samus until I choose not to anymore. There is no auto-aim which decides for me where to look and shoot and I cannot in the middle of gameplay be interrupted by a cutscene. None of the dialogues scenes can be started without me consciously standing on a dialogue pad in a navigation room or an elevator. Even when the game forces me to go into one of those dialogue scenes it doesn't just start the scene because I opened a door or because it feels like it. It just closes the doors and then waits for me to continue playing. It feels like I am playing the game until I relinquish control, whereas other m feels like I am playing the game until the director decides he wants a cutscene now which he unfortunately wants, way too often.

I...really can't agree with your assertion about Fusion being "awful" in terms of plot. Fusion is my favorite Metroid game, and while that may have something to do with it being the first Metroid game I played, it has strengths to me that that every other Metroid game I've played has failed to replicate, with the possible exception of Zero Mission, and even then, on a minimal level.

For starters, Fusion has story, and the dialogue/monologue scenes are part of the reason why. I think the use of monologues were a great way to flesh out Samus's character (who, outside the manga, barely had any character prior to Fusion bar some inference you could take from Super Metroid), and were done so at logical points - between sections of the station. Likewise, Adam briefing you - it gave a sense of impetus, of the sense of things spiraling out of control, even as Samus grows stronger. Compare this to Zero Mission or Super Metroid, where the games' premise are "here's Zebes, go find Mother Brain/the infant metroid, have fun." Everything from the point of Samus arriving on Zebes to the point of her facing Mother Brain (or in Super Metroid, defeating Ridley), is essentially filler. Fun filler to be sure, but nonetheless. Fusion arguably has filler too, but it's filler with key moments within the plot. In Fusion, stuff like the SA-X, Nightmare, Serris, security robot, the core meltdown, system shutdown, etc. and the security robot are elaborated on, and feel like part of a story. In the other two games, it's academic. In contrast, Samus defeating enemies in SM, whose names I wouldn't even know if not for the wiki (e.g. Phantoon), don't have any plot relevance. So by the time Samus is truly left on her own towards the game's end, as she opens level 4 locks and stumbles into the metroid section of BSL, feels 'earnt,' because she's overcome everything BSL has thrown at her, and is at the point of the plot where she can do her own thing. Not to mention that even before Adam's conversation with the Federation contact, there's subtle hints in his dialogue that not everything is on the level.

I'm well aware of people disliking Fusion because of its focus on plot, but to me, that was a boon. I can still enjoy Super Metroid and Zero Mission, but what people list as Fusion's cons are, to me, its strengths.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

"But the story was terrible!" Okay, yes, the storytelling was terrible, but the broad strokes of the story were fine. The scripted words and presentation of said story was a mess (see above about the writing). The authorization thing and the Ridley "freak out" are examples of that terrible writing/direction, but they really didn't come across to me as the irredeemable mortal sins against the Most High that they were lambasted as.

The biggest, most broadest strokes possible. Evil aliens on space station. Samus turns up and shoots evil aliens. That's about the only way that the story broadly works.

I didn't even mind the "working with her former unit and CO" angle, or the "one of the members of the unit is a traitor" angle, or "one of the experiments is an android replicant of Mother Brain" angle... it's just that NONE of these were competently written.

Hell, even the authorization thing could have worked if it had been better written. Soldiers requiring certain clearance before being allowed to use certain kinds of firepower, especially in certain, sensitive environments, is common military protocol. And Adam being all like, "This station is under martial law, and you are non-military personnel. Follow my orders, including what kinds of weapons you can deploy and when, or leave" actually makes perfect sense, but only for weapons. For Space Jump and Varia Suit? Nonsense. And the whole Varia Suit scenario? Makes Samus and Adam look like incompetent idiots.

That's what I'm talking about. The broader ideas at work aren't bad, but the details were a mess.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I haven't played much of it, and I haven't played much of other metroids. I only played fusion to completion though I did play metroid fusion multiple times.

Now, I'm not going to gloss over or deny the flaws. The voice-acting is terrible. The writing is beyond terrible, demonstrating an astounding lack of narrative structure and pacing while presenting the theme of "motherhood" with a ham-fisted lack of tact.

I think these are the games' major problems. I agree at least in sofar as that beyond this, the game is certainly not awful.

As for the linear structure? It felt a lot like Metroid Fusion, which, in my mind, was a good game. If one didn't like Fusion, I can understand why they didn't like Other M.

Well, I'd like to point out something in common and some differences between those two games. What they have in common is that metroid fusion also had some story bits that are the same kind of awful as metroid other m. I mean, those elevator monologues in particular. Those were bad and whiny and silly and out of charactar. A major difference however is that there isn't as much story and more importantly that the story is slightly less intrusive in the gameplay.

Metroid fusion takes you through it's space station linearly, but it is less 'linear' in one respect that, at least to me, instantly elevates the game above all of the 3D metroids I've (briefly) played. I control Samus until I choose not to anymore. There is no auto-aim which decides for me where to look and shoot and I cannot in the middle of gameplay be interrupted by a cutscene. None of the dialogues scenes can be started without me consciously standing on a dialogue pad in a navigation room or an elevator. Even when the game forces me to go into one of those dialogue scenes it doesn't just start the scene because I opened a door or because it feels like it. It just closes the doors and then waits for me to continue playing. It feels like I am playing the game until I relinquish control, whereas other m feels like I am playing the game until the director decides he wants a cutscene now which he unfortunately wants, way too often.

Yeah, I get that.

I sympathize with the position that the aiming and sensemove were overpowered the point of making the game to easy or making the player feel robbed of control. I didn't have that experience, but I understand how others could feel that way.

And yes, the cutscenes could be pretty intrusive, especially at the end when they did a big story-dump to try to wrap up the whole MB plot.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

...I enjoyed Hunters. Certainly wasn't the cream of the crop but nothing to decry 'fanon discontinuity!' over.

And Other M... I dunno man. Story was garbage, characters were garbage, VA was garbage, plot was... alright. Gameplay was very weirdly controlled an had a number of bugs to it, but wasn't offensive to play. The biggest problem was it was just so hard to care about the game, since everyone and everything involved in the story was Objectively Terrible.

It was adequate gameplay with awful plot - so neither saved the other. The gameplay wasn't good enough to play through the plot, and the plot wasn't good enough to justify the sub-par gameplay. If the controls had been tighter or the plot better written odds are Metroid Other M would be seen in a more favourable light, but as it stands it's a disappointing point for the series after the excellence that was the Prime series.

...Hell, that's what's probably made everyone decry Other M as the Literal Worst as well - it followed on after Prime 3: Corruption, which was fucking awesome. It's pretty jarring to go from a game that's a 9/10 (literally 90/100 on Metacritic) to a game that is arguably a 4/10 in quality.

It's weird. I actually really liked the gameplay. Any time the story went to garbage town (which was over 75% of the time for me) I was able to do a quick eye-roll and hand-wave it away to get back to the playing because I was enjoying it so much.

It seems the gameplay is very polarizing. Many, like myself, will say that it feels tight, intuitive, and fun. Others will say that the game is awkward. I guess it's just one of those cases where it just "works" for some people and doesn't for others without a clear explanation.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I can *almost* buy that Samus won't activate certain functions of her suit out of respect for Adam even if he has no real jurisdiction over her, the "no Power-Bombs" thing, totally get it; what I can't buy is her willingness to walk through a volcano without her Varia suits temperature-proof effects, especially with the idea that Adam can see all that. He's just watching her walk through dangerously high temperatures which will kill her after long enough exposure but will not tell her to activate her Varia suit until... he realizes she's not gonna do it on her own. I don't know there's no part of that that makes sense.

I think it was a clear example of carelessness in the writing and gameplay intruding on story.

Running from save point to save point, essentially on a death timer because health is constantly depleting, was a fun and interesting challenge, and I can see what they were going for...from a GAMEPLAY perspective. From a story perspective, they should have realized how it didn't make any sense and come up with some other way to create that scenario, such as "her Varia Suit is damaged and she has to run through the firey zones to get to a tech lab where she can repair it" or something. They created the authorization thing and they created the gameplay challenge scenario of getting through the heat areas without the Varia Suit and they (seemingly) gave little to know thought about how it would come across from a story angle when these two things were combined.

People wanted to get all up on Tomb Raider 2013, but THIS RIGHT HERE is what we call ludonarrative dissonance.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

How can you even tolerate the control? You have to play a 3D game with a D-pad for absolutely no reason, you can go in only 8 direction when you need to be able to go in infinite number. And those damn missile control, why do I have to become immobile when I want to shoot missile?(something which would not be problem if the game control with a analogue stick, seriously why no analogue stick?!) And just switching between 1st and 3rd is uselessly complicated since you have to orient the wii mote.

(shrugs) The controls felt fine to me. The levels are designed with a 8-direction movement scheme in mind, so controlling Samus with a d-pad felt as fine as playing Street Fighter II on the SNES (which also featured 8-directional movement controlled with a d-pad). There were a small handful of instances where full-360 movement would have been helpful, but not enough that using 8-directions and the d-pad bothered me in the least.

It does seem a bit arbitrary that missiles can't be shot in first-person, but that limitation was used to create some tense and interesting boss scenarios, so I don't mind.

And the switching between 1st and 3rd person never bothered me, so...yeah, I don't know what else to say about that.

 

[Pseudonym]

I...really can't agree with your assertion about Fusion being "awful" in terms of plot. Fusion is my favorite Metroid game, and while that may have something to do with it being the first Metroid game I played, it has strengths to me that that every other Metroid game I've played has failed to replicate, with the possible exception of Zero Mission, and even then, on a minimal level.

I think you are somewhat misinterpreting me. What I said was:

metroid fusion also had some story bits that are the same kind of awful as metroid other m. I mean, those elevator monologues in particular. Those were bad and whiny and silly and out of character.

Which I don't think is anywhere near as damning as it being awful in terms of plot. In fact, the plot, as in the sequence of events and how that is portrayed, was good if fairly standard in my opinion.

I liked most of the story of metroid fusion, but the elevator scenes and the complaining about how this soulless computer wasn't as sensitive to her as Adam was, I thought those bits weren't very good. Those bits also reminded me of other m when I replayed fusion a while back. They have the same problem of making Samus very whiny and dependend on validation of Adam or her CO which makes very little sense for a ruthless mercenary who works alone most of the time. Even if you want to show her as having certain unexpected soft spots, making her insecure and grumbly about not being trusted by her CO is just weird.

I'm well aware of people disliking Fusion because of its focus on plot, but to me, that was a boon. I can still enjoy Super Metroid and Zero Mission, but what people list as Fusion's cons are, to me, its strengths.

While I know people who feel that way, I personally do like the plot and I don't mind the focus on plot. I dislike, specifically the elevator scenes. I brought those up, like I said, because I thought they were similar to other m and were bad for several of the same reasons. (though mercifully they weren't awfully voice-acted and were far briefer)

I think the use of monologues were a great way to flesh out Samus's character (who, outside the manga, barely had any character prior to Fusion bar some inference you could take from Super Metroid)

This is where we split. The quality of narrative elements of a game don't always have a relation to the quantity and in some cases an inverse one. (brevity is the soul of wit) I don't really mind that samus barely has any character. She stars in a video game. Not a movie, or a book, or anything like that but a game. Games can work perfectly well with far less narrative and far less character development than movies or books. When I watch the Mona Lisa I don't think it would be greatly improved if there was an elaberote story about who that lady is and where she comes from. On the contrary. Similarly, I don't want to know how master chief or samus or rayman are feeling about stuff. Not because halo, metroid or rayman should have no narrative but because the narrative isn't about the main character. The narrative gives context and atmosphere for the gameplay which is what I'm really there for. For a lot of games I'd rank, in decreasing order of importance, gameplay, atmosphere, plot and only then characters. Also, in the gameplay, I already have the power to make the protagonist do all kinds of weird things, so giving a protagonist to much characterisation just seems like a risk of contradicting the gameplay to me.

I'm not saying that characterisation is neccesarily a bad thing but if it isn't good it gets in the way even if it isn't actively bad. And even if I was really waiting to learn about the character traits of samus, I still wouldn't have liked those elevator scenes because her monologues are insipid and out of character.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I think people forget the odd paradox that Other M's existence has made within the Metroid canon.

In Metroid Fusion, Samus stated that her working for the Federation was her second time doing so. However, Other M's place in Metroid's timeline is before Fusion's. Therefore, it should have been Fusion then Other M and not the other way around. As it stands now, not only is Other M creating a canonical paradox...but it also created one of the SHITTIEST Metroid stories I ever witnessed. Not to mention the utter desecration of the character that Samus Aran has been up to that point. The gameplay, the graphics, anything else - these are moot in lieu of the matter I bring forth.

So, for me, I pretend in my own world that Other M is non-canon, despite whatever the Other M writer wants to claim.

 

[Nazulu]

The game is worthy of it. I found it far too bland for it to make up for the atrocious voice acting, dialogue and story, which can even be the most important aspects to other people. Either way, it's extremely important to take care when you finally give a voiceless character a voice, but this just felt like fanboy rubbish.

Nah, actually, there is another problem that personally bothers me a lot about it, and that is that it doesn't feel like a Metroid game. And what I mean by this is that her movements and how the game is laid out just feels off. I was blown away by Super Metroid and Metroid Prime too, and that is because they made the games feel like a wonderland of unique area's. Also, they treated the characters and players with dignity so it felt smart too.

In Other M, I couldn't ignore her bloody animations a lot of the time. When she runs, it looks like she needs to go to the bathroom, and then when that animation breaks from stopping, it looks like she stumbles, even the footsteps sound made it seem like it.

Then the games puts you in 3D rooms with enemy's from a side perspective, and you have no choice but to clumsily fire until you hit all of them eventually. I hated it the whole way, even when just watching people. A game should never feel like that.

And the developers obviously didn't give a shit what made the 2 best Metroid games so great, because they just blatantly throw up instructions for you to pass a certain obstacle, and I felt like I was reading a text document. It's so pathetic! I expect this from lesser developers or fucking lazy people. It has no elegance, and it lacks imagination.

And of course, the biggest sin of all. Constant, Forced, Cinematics! If there is anything that can stop a Metroid game feel like a Metroid game, it's this rubbish. Well, to me anyway. I played Nintendo games to escape this crap originally.

I...really can't agree with your assertion about Fusion being "awful" in terms of plot. Fusion is my favorite Metroid game, and while that may have something to do with it being the first Metroid game I played, it has strengths to me that that every other Metroid game I've played has failed to replicate, with the possible exception of Zero Mission, and even then, on a minimal level.

For starters, Fusion has story, and the dialogue/monologue scenes are part of the reason why. I think the use of monologues were a great way to flesh out Samus's character (who, outside the manga, barely had any character prior to Fusion bar some inference you could take from Super Metroid), and were done so at logical points - between sections of the station. Likewise, Adam briefing you - it gave a sense of impetus, of the sense of things spiraling out of control, even as Samus grows stronger. Compare this to Zero Mission or Super Metroid, where the games' premise are "here's Zebes, go find Mother Brain/the infant metroid, have fun." Everything from the point of Samus arriving on Zebes to the point of her facing Mother Brain (or in Super Metroid, defeating Ridley), is essentially filler. Fun filler to be sure, but nonetheless. Fusion arguably has filler too, but it's filler with key moments within the plot. In Fusion, stuff like the SA-X, Nightmare, Serris, security robot, the core meltdown, system shutdown, etc. and the security robot are elaborated on, and feel like part of a story. In the other two games, it's academic. In contrast, Samus defeating enemies in SM, whose names I wouldn't even know if not for the wiki (e.g. Phantoon), don't have any plot relevance. So by the time Samus is truly left on her own towards the game's end, as she opens level 4 locks and stumbles into the metroid section of BSL, feels 'earnt,' because she's overcome everything BSL has thrown at her, and is at the point of the plot where she can do her own thing. Not to mention that even before Adam's conversation with the Federation contact, there's subtle hints in his dialogue that not everything is on the level.

I'm well aware of people disliking Fusion because of its focus on plot, but to me, that was a boon. I can still enjoy Super Metroid and Zero Mission, but what people list as Fusion's cons are, to me, its strengths.

And I have to disagree with your defense of Fusion and how you perceive Super Metroid.

Spoiler: Allow me to try and explain

First off, Nothing is filler in Super Metroid! Some games can say more and do more without flaccid text telling you what is what. That is how I see Fusion's story in a nutshell. It's bland, it's been done a million times, and it comes out corny. Yes, corny. I had to shake my head every now and again, and I can't skip it either. Every time they had Samus say something as childish as "How Dare You!?", I just wanted it to end!

I always say certain aspects should be left out of a game/movie/whatever if they harm the experience more, so that's why Fusions story is not a welcome change to me (unlike Metroid Primes scan system). Seriously. The way they describe the X is like so many other evil virus's or aliens that can end it all, and it's just so predicable. Not to mention it becomes very thin when you've seen certain movies and read books that have taken the same idea in a more interesting direction. I don't even like the original story for Samus because of how bloody dull and samey it is.

Super Metroid however, stands out in this way though. It was the first game I ever played where I received no comfort from friendly AI, nothing telling me where to go or what to do, and nothing was interrupting me from playing. It felt a lot more interactive in that way, and the map layout and hidden paths only added to it.

Now Super Metroid does have an interesting story, or set of events to be exact, and it would only be hampered with text. Again, not spewing endless dialogue was a smart decision here. Not only did we not want to see a cartoony style of story and character progress, but we could remain focused on the different paths and hints the game continuously fed us. And sometimes some things are just better left unsaid, unless there is an interesting way to introduce it.

Straight from the get go, we're constantly placed in dark foreboding environments, the enemy's are within the walls and ambushes can be around any corner. The visuals play a large part and can say a lot too, and in a lot more elegant way (especially in games I find). So when you survive your first serious encounters, you have to fill in the pieces yourself, and because of this, it can become very harrowing not knowing how you will end up. Some classic games could create this special feeling that you may not be able to come back. This can not be achieved with the typical mission objectives.

When you enter new area's, the rules change slightly, and once again, are overwhelmed by the amount of new doors to go through. You are constantly introduced to new obstacles as well, some even could be difficult to figure out, and this is where SM really shines (where Nintendo used to shine), because it feels like the game is a real test, so you have to earn it.

The journey sticks out a lot with it's clever design. Even the bosses stick out more because they're represented in a unique way (and can look real fucking mean too), with well-thought-out intense attack patterns that don't feel like something generic, unlike most of Fusions bosses. Seriously can't remember their moves, or much else about them. What I mainly remember is how I got sick of attacking the same stupid X virus ball after every boss fight.

I half like Fusion though, being possibly my 3rd favourite in the series, if not Echoes. I don't believe it's impossible at all to include a story and lots of dialogue into each game, but it's very rare to see that level of writing that can be taken seriously with a set up like Metroid.

Edit: Ignore most of this post, I wrote it while I was drunk. Plus, Pseudonym clearly said what I wanted to say.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Why have there been so many threads trying to defend Other M lately?

Anyway, yeah, generally speaking people aren't too upset about the gameplay of Other M. What was upsetting was that a character who was by and large previously characterized as a stolid lone wolf who could handle any situation suddenly had been turned into a blubbering baby who couldn't use her missiles or power armor before someone she literally had no reason to listen to gave her permission.

You say that the story itself wasn't abjectly terrible, OP, but the problem with making an assertion like that is that it has no practical meaning. There are a lot of stories that sound amazing on paper, but then their execution completely ruins any chance of them actually being enjoyable. A story is made by its writing, and I honestly don't believe that any game has ever had writing that offended me both as a writer and as a player of video games as much as Other M did. Beyond: Two Souls got pretty close.

The thing about Other M's story is that it manages to not only insult the character it's supposed to be starring, but it also manages to insult the player at every turn. I do believe that it's the only game I've ever seen where a friendly NPC literally comes out of nowhere and stuns you so that he can run off with one of the final levels of the game, and then

Spoiler: does anyone really care?

another friendly NPC steals the killshot on the final boss; this being after the whole big Ridley/Samus rivalry is resolved in a massive anti-climax by Ridley running away from your boss fight and then being killed off-screen by something else entirely.

Some people don't care as much about what a narrative does as others do, and hey, that's fine. You do you, there are plenty of games that have stories I don't really care about one way or the other. Other M happens to be a particular thorn because it was the first game (with maybe the exception of Fusion? I dunno, I never played it) in quite a long and established franchise that tried to shake up the story presentation. It implemented actual characters and dialog rather than just having everything transmitted to the player through environmental storytelling or scan logs. It tried to give a hard, defined personality to the central character, and have said character directly interact with other characters through more than just their actions. Those aren't inherently bad things. The bad part is that none of it was done well, and, well, Other M is what we got from it. A game in which a hardened space bounty hunter became a submissive bootlicker with an inexplicable mommy complex who had a panic attack at the sight of something she's beaten down many, many times in the past.

I'm not really trying to defend the game. I'm trying to understand why the negative reaction was so huge.

The authorization thing was dumb for everything that wasn't a weapon. For weapons though? Limiting specific kinds of firepower, especially in sensitive situations to those specifically authorized to use is pretty standard military procedure. Samus is non-military personnel. So, "this station is under martial law; civilian, follow my orders--including not using certain weapons until I authorize them--or leave" actually makes perfect sense, again, for WEAPONS. And we even see this when Adam tells Samus "I don't know what your powerbombs will do to the structural integrity of the station." But for things like Space Jump and Varia Suit that couldn't possibly cause a threatening situation? Dumb, dumb, and dumb.

I am a lover of games and writer as well. And I am all about video games as a narrative form. If you remember my thoughts on FFXIII, you should know that already. I don't know why Other M's story failures rolled off of me as easily as they did. Maybe because I knew they were coming and had already steeled myself against them? Probably. I also approach Metroid in a "gameplay-first" mentality. I love games as a storytelling medium, but some games I play solely to enjoy as games, such as Geometry Wars. And some I primarily play to enjoy as games, and any storytelling that is there is great if it's great, but not difficult to ignore if it's not, and Metroid has long been one of those kinds of games.

Was Samus's "freak out" scene written as if by someone who had no understanding of the series as a whole? Yep. Even though I don't think the scene was as terrible as some say. The fact we see Samus turn into a toddler briefly tells us that everything we're seeing isn't literal; much of it is a representation of how it feels to Samus: she had peace-of-mind at the beginning of the game that Ridley was gone for good, she's surprised and confused and caught off guard when he pops up, she has a flashback "moment" to what was probably the most traumatic event of her life, but then she shakes it off, readies her gun, and blasts the bastard away. The "moment" just went on way too long and was awfully written and awfully directed. They could've used this as way to make her look vulnerably human, but still strong. Instead she comes off as pathetic. And yes, Ridley being finished off-screen, depriving Samus and the player of the satisfaction of literally conquering Samus's demon? Bullshit.

That's my deal in the big picture: the story, even in the big offenders like the authorization thing and the Ridley panic, could have worked if it'd been better written. The broad strokes are good and even open up some interesting possibilities; the details are a mess. And in the end, I'm willing to give it a pass because I can see what (good thing) they may have been going for and I enjoy the gameplay so much.

I guess those are the the keys then:

1) Though I am a long-time fan of Metroid, I've always been more interested in it from the gameplay side of the coin, and I enjoyed Other M's gameplay (except for the stupid, forced-first-person segments).

2) My response to the story was a more measured, distanced, "I can see what they were going for there; it just REALLY didn't work".

Other the other side, a lot of people didn't like the gameplay and/or had a much more personal investment in the narrative. Hmm.

I will say that I LOVED the environmental storytelling of Metroid Prime. Storywise, I'd say the first Prime is the best game in the series by far. Hmm... Maybe I should go back and replay Metroid Prime. It's been YEARS, and playing it so soon after Other M could give some interesting insight.

 

[shrekfan246]

That's my deal in the big picture: the story, even in the big offenders like the authorization thing and the Ridley panic, could have worked if it'd been better written. The broad strokes are good and even open up some interesting possibilities; the details are a mess. And in the end, I'm willing to give it a pass because I can see what (good thing) they may have been going for and I enjoy the gameplay so much.

I don't give passes to something based on what could have been. It doesn't need any excuses made for it, it was an incredibly poorly-written story attached to a slightly-above-average game with some poor design decisions. Like I said, when you start reducing stories to their "broad strokes" rather than actually holding them to account for the quality of their writing, pretty much anything can be said to be "good". In the right hands, almost anything can be a "good story". Metroid: Other M was not in the right hands.

I guess those are the the keys then:

1) Though I am a long-time fan of Metroid, I've always been more interested in it from the gameplay side of the coin, and I enjoyed Other M's gameplay (except for the stupid, forced-first-person segments).

And that's fair enough. As I've mentioned, I do that as well sometimes. I absolutely adore Diablo III, and have played it for over 200 hours (which for me is rather a lot of time to spend on a single game). I couldn't really tell you much specific about the story anymore if you were curious, though, because it really isn't all that amazing. A woman turns her daughter(?) into the devil at some point, I think? Maybe? Who even knows anymore. I enjoyed the story, but it's not that good.

2) My response to the story was a more measured, distanced, "I can see what they were going for there; it just REALLY didn't work".

That's not a reason to excuse it, in my mind. Just because I can acknowledge that something had some decent roots doesn't mean I have to extrapolate from there myself and thus give the writer a convenient out. It was a poorly-written story, and it should be recognized for that. Many people, myself included, thought that the quality of said writing was so poor, in fact, that it actively detracted from the quality of the game (and also some people just really didn't like the design flow of the gameplay or the controls). Case in point, your own words:

Other the other side, a lot of people didn't like the gameplay and/or had a much more personal investment in the narrative. Hmm.

If you're trying to figure out why it's been so reviled, then those are your primary explanations right there. Different people have different expectations and experiences. In fact, let's use Final Fantasy XIII as an example. I don't, for the record, explicitly recall your feelings on the game, though I feel we've gone over this before between the two of us.

I went into Final Fantasy XIII having basically grown up on Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, X, and XII. I loved all of those games, for their complex characters (that I didn't always understand because small child), for their addictively grindy gameplay, for the worlds they built and presented to the player. I had what I believe to be a reasonable expectation of what I should find within XIII; deep(ish) characters with their own goals and motivations, a sprawling world with many secondary areas and side-quests that aren't always telegraphed for you, and a combat system that didn't try to restrict your control at every opportunity. On every level, XIII managed to disappoint me.

Following after games like Super Metroid and Metroid Prime, which set the standards for how Metroid games should be presented, I don't think it's terribly unfair to say that Other M is the Final Fantasy XIII of the franchise. In and of itself, it's not an awful game. If you can get behind the controls, then it has decent-to-enjoyable gameplay and a remarkably bland story that's only even remarkable because of the new ways it finds to take things away from the player. But it's elevated (or lowered, depending on how you want to look at it) beyond the level of just being an okay game by the fact that it's been slapped with the Metroid banner, and it has the pedigree of the rest of that franchise to live up to.

I will say that I LOVED the environmental storytelling of Metroid Prime. Storywise, I'd say the first Prime is the best game in the series by far. Hmm... Maybe I should go back and replay Metroid Prime. It's been YEARS, and playing it so soon after Other M could give some interesting insight.

Replaying Metroid Prime is never a bad idea.