so the earth is F***ed aparently..

Icehearted

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Certain aspects of his point are valid. The pace of technological progress in the last few centuries has far outpaced humanities capacity to actually cope. Hell, you don't need to look far to see some vestige of our tribal heritage rearing it's ugly head and some inopportune time.
You remind me of those multiple studies on the affects of social networking. Mostly the consensus was that people have crossed the threshold from using tech as a tool to being enslaved by it and needing it more than they do not. Our exponential growth in certain areas and "quick fix" methods of communication have lead to all sorts of psychological disorders.
 

kenadian

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Vault101 said:
5ilver said:
People were happier, less stressed and better fed a few thousand years ago. I see nothing wrong with wanting to go back.
HAHAHAHAHAHA *gasp* hahaha ha

what?

what evidence do you have of this? ESPECIALLY the better fed part...
It's actually true, but far more than a few thousand years. It's farther back, before we invented farming and sedentary life. Hunter-gatherer societies were typically better-fed than later human societies and didn't struggle every hour of every day toiling away for food. They actually had a fairly large amount of leisure time.

Due to being extremely lazy, wiki provides.

Due to a lack of written records from this time period, nearly all of our knowledge of Paleolithic human culture and way of life comes from archaeology and ethnographic comparisons to modern hunter-gatherer cultures such as the !Kung San who live similarly to their Paleolithic predecessors.[16] The economy of a typical Paleolithic society was a hunter-gatherer economy.[17] Humans hunted wild animals for meat and gathered food, firewood, and materials for their tools, clothes, or shelters.[17] Human population density was very low, around only one person per square mile.[2] This was most likely due to low body fat, infanticide, women regularly engaging in intense endurance exercise,[18] late weaning of infants and a nomadic lifestyle.[2] Like contemporary hunter-gatherers, Paleolithic humans enjoyed an abundance of leisure time unparalleled in both Neolithic farming societies and modern industrial societies.[17][19] At the end of the Paleolithic, specifically the Middle and or Upper Paleolithic, humans began to produce works of art such as cave paintings, rock art and jewellery and began to engage in religious behavior such as burial and ritual.[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic#Human_way_of_life

Follow the citation links for the sources, I guess.
 

Blaster395

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ClockworkPenguin said:
That said, whilst I imagine humanity will certainly survive, the next couple of centuries could be very bumpy, especially when the oil runs out
Commodities don't just run out. They become increasingly scarce, causing price to increase, causing people to look for alternatives. Right now, getting power from fossil fuel is cheaper than from renewable sources. This is why people use fossil fuel energy sources. As oil becomes more scarce the price will rise high enough for renewable power to be financially worthwhile and it will see much more widespread adoption.

kenadian said:
It's actually true, but far more than a few thousand years. It's farther back, before we invented farming and sedentary life. Hunter-gatherer societies were typically better-fed than later human societies and didn't struggle every hour of every day toiling away for food. They actually had a fairly large amount of leisure time.
You know, there is little to stop you from running out into the wilderness and trying out this supposedly better way of life?
 

MammothBlade

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Oct 12, 2011
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Eclectic Dreck said:
Certain aspects of his point are valid. The pace of technological progress in the last few centuries has far outpaced humanities capacity to actually cope. Hell, you don't need to look far to see some vestige of our tribal heritage rearing it's ugly head and some inopportune time.
This is partly what I'm trying to get at. Humans are still fumbling in the dark, not entirely sure of what they're doing. And then get depressed when the sheer irrationality and unfairness of modern life overwhelms them.
 

Moagim

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Not G. Ivingname said:
Yes, let's go back to the good old days, before all the horrid technology, where 20 miles was a hard days trip, you never left your home town, filth and rats where everywhere, surgery was done with hacksaws, all but the nobility was eternally poor, you had to work 365 days a year to make sure the crops didn't go bad, and the most stimulating form of entertainment was getting into a bar fight.

Truly, this is the great world humans need to regain!
Well when you put it that way... it sounds like we haven't made even a days worth of progress in the past 1000 years.
 

kenadian

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Blaster395 said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
That said, whilst I imagine humanity will certainly survive, the next couple of centuries could be very bumpy, especially when the oil runs out
Commodities don't just run out. They become increasingly scarce, causing price to increase, causing people to look for alternatives. Right now, getting power from fossil fuel is cheaper than from renewable sources. This is why people use fossil fuel energy sources. As oil becomes more scarce the price will rise high enough for renewable power to be financially worthwhile and it will see much more widespread adoption.

kenadian said:
It's actually true, but far more than a few thousand years. It's farther back, before we invented farming and sedentary life. Hunter-gatherer societies were typically better-fed than later human societies and didn't struggle every hour of every day toiling away for food. They actually had a fairly large amount of leisure time.
You know, there is little to stop you from running out into the wilderness and trying out this supposedly better way of life?
My lazy ass is stopping me. I never said better than NOW. They lived better than people 10,000 years ago. Remember, they didn't have any diseases associated with sedentary populations that domesticated animals, among other things.

Also, one source.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=9H6oqN3Q-GoC&pg=PA55&dq=Paleolithic+egalitarianism&sig=KKhsZp57uhfR9WMQRYvdrSF3rOk&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Paleolithic%20egalitarianism&f=false

Or scroll down to The Decline in Quality of Diet

http://www.primitivism.com/sedentism.htm

Mind you, the primitivism site can go fuck itself as far as its stated mission is concerned. I can find something else if desired.
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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TizzytheTormentor said:
*looks at article* Best headline ever!

OT: Seriously, people make these predictions all the time, once the 21st December doomsday thing passes, they will move onto the next date (Most likely 2016) Bring on the new doomsday predictions! My body is ready! (to debunk more doomsday theories)
Your body debunks doomsday theories? Not your brain?

Wow. Your gall bladder is pretty fucking smart. :)

I kid, I kid.

Seriously, I hate pseudo-scientists of that stripe. I have people in the family who work in Environmental Education, and even they would agree that we've reached a certain point of no return. Fucking everything more advanced than flintstones to Hell would be better for the Earth on the long run, sure, but what about those of us who depend on cutting-edge medical technologies to survive? Slaying the one percent on the altar of responsible environmental policies would doom a lot of us to a pretty ignominious end.

What really needs to change is "Savage" Capitalism. The system largely works, it's just being abused by asshats who want to line up their bloated pension funds and take off to Dubai before anyone notices. That and banks are being run by greedy fucks who gamed the American stock market for their own gains.

Speculation is what needs to stop. More responsible economic habits will give rise to more responsible environmental habits.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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My first thought when I read the title for this thread? "So what else is new?" in a rather sarcastic manner.

However...
Capitalist society moves too quickly,
I do agree with that wholeheartedly. Capitalist society DOES move too damn quickly!
 

Ravinoff

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I'm really getting sick of these anti-technology hippie shitheads. "Blah blah blah technology bad, nature good!" No, piss off, science isn't your enemy, and nature in fact hates us. The answer isn't regressing to a hypothetical non-industrial civilization, it's pushing even harder forward and ignoring twits like this. We should be proud of our superiority over all other life on the planet, not ashamed of it.
 

sebashepin

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Dec 25, 2009
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We grow our resource consumption at a superlineal rate. We have finite resources. Resources will eventually run out.

I seriously cannot disagree with his reasoning.

My issues come with his proposed alternatives, but then again its not like there are a lot to choose from.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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You're right - it doesn't sound too scientific. Why? Well, because it isn't. It's ideology thinly wrapped in pseudo-scientific babble. It's mainly Marx, rolled in eco-pop eco-science, which is mostly a somewhat roundabout way of manipulating society into forced transformation.

I call BS.
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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The earth is fucked, in a few billion years, the sun WILL expand and swallow it.

In the lower timescale, and with an emphasis on humanity, it's probably fucked, unless we can find some brilliant new clean technology to fix the damage we've done by digging up things dead millions of years and reincorporating their carbon back into the atmosphere. That's pretty messed up.

Then we have more then enough nukes, even with modern disarmament, to kill all higher life on earth a few times over, So if somehow some thing either misfires with our technology or we get the wrong nutbags in charge of running us that they decide to take everyone out, then we're fucked.

Basically, the earth is terminal. Hopefully, all of us living alive today won't have to deal with its inevitable downfall.
 

sebashepin

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Ravinoff said:
Totally agree with you, technology in all its flavors is our greatest achievement. However, his thesis goes more along:

"Technology must keep up with capitalism, otherwise capitalism will go through resources faster than we can procure them. Therefore, enforcing a hard cap on resource consumption via technology reduction would be better on the long run"

Basically, he's lost confidence on the 'teching' rate of our species being fast enough
 

Azure Knight-Zeo

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I'm sick by these "we need to go back to a simpler time" stroies. The fact is, we can't. You can't convince everyone to go back to the older way of living, and even if you could you wouldn't be able to replicate it. Also was it really that good in the past? Where we really better off before capitalism?

All we can do is move forward, learning from our successful times and our failures, and if all you do is look back at what happened you'll never see what can be happening.
 
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Calling bullshit on this one. Any damage we do to the Earth, short of all-out nuclear warfare for a sustained period (and probably even accounting for that), will be recovered over the vast timescales that arise when you don't talk about human development. I mean, if we all died, it wouldn't take very long at all for nature to take over again. And even a few million years is really a small amount of time in the Earth's life -- it's just we don't think like that. So the planet will be fine, it's humans he should be worried about.
 

Not Matt

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everyone i know believes in the Mayan theory. I have a lot of smug laughing to do on December 22th. I mean come on. The calendar is 4000 years old, my guess is that they got sick of making the damn calendar
 

Arrogancy

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TopazFusion said:
> "That's a hard proposition to gather evidence for scientifically"

Yeah, his proposed 'solutions' are pretty extreme. Not to mention, not exactly very scientific.
Welcome to the Doom-Predicting Industry. Please deposit any logical reasoning you may still retain in our readily available receptacles.
 

Esotera

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Global warming has the potential to destroy human civilization depending on how bad we make it, and eventually the sun and universe will die, which means the earth is inevitably fucked at some point.

As for the rate of technological advances, I don't think it'll be that bad unless DIY biotech becomes really affordable & idiot-proof.