So... the Nazis.

[toobie]

Hitler was democratically elected. A surprising number of history classes tend to gloss over that fact. Not because it would give the impression that he was a good guy, but because we don't want to think democracy is flawed in any way by giving the masses the power to put the evil *cough* Mitt Romney! *cough* or the incompetent *cough* Dubya! *cough* into office.

Captcha is "mum's the word". Cute.

He was elected as Reichskanselier. He shouldn't have got the power he did.

 

[Ziame]

Panzerkampfwagon IV was vastly superior to T-34, despite what World of Tanks may indicate.

Ehh, depends what you are considering as 'vastly superior'. The Panzer IV ausf E and F, with the short barreled 7.5cm Kwk37 L/24 gun were only marginally successful, whereas the T-34-76 armed with the F34 76mm gun could penetrate the Panzer IV at all ranges. However, the T-34 was hampered by the 2 man turret, meaning the commander had to both command the tank and act as gunner, whereas the 3 man turret on the Panzer IV allowed the commander to concentrate solely on commanding his tank, making for more efficient operations. T-34's were also hampered by a shortage of radios, but that's more of a problem that was indicative of the Russian army at the time.

The Germans, after the nasty surprise the T-34-76 and the KV-1 presented, hurried out the ausf G with a 7.5cm KwK40 L/43 gun, and retroactively fitted it to ausf F. The G also addressed the armour deficiencies with applique armour on the front plate. This ultimately lead to the ausf H an J, with the thicker armour incorporated and armed with a more powerful 7.5cm KwK40 L/48 gun, making for a much tougher tank against the T-34-76, and there still was the crew advantage.

However, the Soviets responded by increasing the armour on the model 43, and new ammunition types that were becoming available that were able to effectively penetrate the thicker armour. The thicker armour did not do much to offset the 75mm guns though. Of course then there is the T-34-85, which had a three man turret and the 85mm ZiS-S-53 gun which was designed for the Panther and Tiger, which makes a mockery of the Panzer IVs armour.

The Panzer IV and the T-34-76 were pretty much on par with each other. In their final forms both had pretty much extended the life of their respective chassis as much as they could. Now, if you are talking about the Panther, that tank outclassed the T-34 on almost all levels. the 7.5cm KwK43 L/70 gun could rip through a T-34 at all ranges, whereas the T-34-76's needed to get a side of rear shot for their F-34 guns to even stand a chance.

Edit: Just a note on the Tiger II, it did have problems of its own. Aside from being a gas guzzler and mechanically complex, the drive train that was installed was designed for a much lighter tank. So it was rather weak and in the hands of an inexperienced driver (of which there were many when it entered service) it tended to break. As far as I know they never really solved that problem. But otherwise it really was a monster.

You are right, I meant the V(Panther is V iirc) not IV

 

[Ziame]

Another fun fact: Germany treated various occupied regions differently. While helping a Jew in France/Benelux was met with slap on the wrist, on occupied Polish territories helping a Jew resulted in the helper being killed. Immediately. Along with his closest family and everyone remotely tied to the helper. Poles helped them regardless.

That's totally untrue. I know for a fact people were shot for hiding Jews in the Netherlands. The best one could expect if caught was prison, the most common result of resistance work was execution, or a sentence to a concentration camp.

The February Strike of 1941 for instance was met with brutal force that killed 9, gravely injured 24, and before the coordinated putting down, there'd been days of open fighting in the streets during which several members of the Dutch nazi party found death and several German soldiers were injured. Quite impressive if you consider that was just with bare hands, and mostly spawned by spontaneous outrage over bad treatment of Jews. The village of Putten had its entire male population executed after resistance fighters shot at a German army car on a road near the village. In the Blood Night of Sneek in 1944, four random civilians were dragged from their homes and murdered in retaliation for the killing of a member of the Nationalsozialistisches Kraftfahrkorps. I can probably name a few hundred examples more if I look for them.


I think that whatever source you got that from was just Polish propaganda. There's a whole lot of that around which tries to deny the horrors of the occupation elsewhere, in order to dramaqueen Poland's occupation, ussually from nationalistic motives.

You, sir, are correct. I applaud you for awareness and apologise for the trololol.

 

[Ziame]

Adolf Hitler's favorite boxer, Max Schmeling(German) was beaten by Max Baer(US.) Max Baer(who you may know as the villain from Cinderella Man,) wore a Star of David during the match in honor of his Jewish grandfather, and of the Jewish community as a whole.

Max Schmelling was also beaten by Joe Louis (the second time they fought), which was a very big deal at the time.

Also, contrary to popular belief, Nazis were Germans. Even though propaganda would have it that every single German opposed Hitler, you can't deny Nazis were Germans. Now, you can and should deny that Germans ARE Nazis, but, well, most of them were. Thus the war.

Not true. Firstly, the majority of the German populace weren't members of the Nazi party.

Secondly, many, many people outside Germany supported the Nazis until they found themselves at war with them. You could argue that anti-semitism only really became unpopular because the Nazis lost the war, many people were very much in favour of removing the lesser races.

You know why I insist on "German"? Because when someone not schooled in history comes to Poland and sees sign in front of Auschwitz saying "Nazi Death Camp", his immediate reaction will be "Those murderous Nazi Poles!". I hope you can understand what I mean. No disrespect for Germany, just respect for facts. Word manipulation leads to such faux pa as "Polish Death Camps" by Barack Obama.

 

[hutchy27]

I have my History GCSE exam on Tuesday, and it's on Germany from 1918-1945. I'd like to sneak in some interesting facts that we haven't been taught in class, just to be a smartass. So, has anyone got any interesting facts about the Nazis (as you may be able to guess, they feature rather prominently under that heading). In fact, anything interesting about the topic at all would do for me. I'll soon see how quirky I can make my essay...

It's that the exam about World War One and Two, talking about the Bosnia Crisis and stuff like that? Because I'm doing a GCSE history one tomorrow.

 

[Mournful Crow]

Well, they didn't like Jewish people.... In fact, I believe for a fact, based on documents and recorded events, that they actually despised the Jewish people, and sent them to their deaths in specialized containment facilities hidden from the eyes of civilization...

Actually, these facilities were sometimes right under people's noses, where a whole town had a great view them.

Well, space was running short, so they had to make productive use of the bakeries. Can you blame em?

 

[toobie]

Adolf Hitler's favorite boxer, Max Schmeling(German) was beaten by Max Baer(US.) Max Baer(who you may know as the villain from Cinderella Man,) wore a Star of David during the match in honor of his Jewish grandfather, and of the Jewish community as a whole.

Max Schmelling was also beaten by Joe Louis (the second time they fought), which was a very big deal at the time.

Also, contrary to popular belief, Nazis were Germans. Even though propaganda would have it that every single German opposed Hitler, you can't deny Nazis were Germans. Now, you can and should deny that Germans ARE Nazis, but, well, most of them were. Thus the war.

Not true. Firstly, the majority of the German populace weren't members of the Nazi party.

Secondly, many, many people outside Germany supported the Nazis until they found themselves at war with them. You could argue that anti-semitism only really became unpopular because the Nazis lost the war, many people were very much in favour of removing the lesser races.

You know why I insist on "German"? Because when someone not schooled in history comes to Poland and sees sign in front of Auschwitz saying "Nazi Death Camp", his immediate reaction will be "Those murderous Nazi Poles!". I hope you can understand what I mean. No disrespect for Germany, just respect for facts. Word manipulation leads to such faux pa as "Polish Death Camps" by Barack Obama.

Yes, the German Nazi's made Auswichtz. No, not every Nazi is German. We here in Holland had Nazi's, which welcomed the German Nazi's once we were invaded.

 

[Private Custard]

Germany was defeated by the Soviets not the USA (although the USA did liberate West Europe)

Off topic, but I really wish people would stop this Hollywood bullshit!

 

[Wintermoot]

Germany was defeated by the Soviets not the USA (although the USA did liberate West Europe)

Off topic, but I really wish people would stop this Hollywood bullshit!

maybe I should have added Canada and the UK altough I do admit that the UK started the liberations and overall the UK,Canadian and US armies are considered heroes here in Holland.

 

[OneCatch]

Germany was defeated by the Soviets not the USA (although the USA did liberate West Europe)

*Winces*

That's a flamewar waiting to happen. In spirit of the thread; "PUT THAT LIGHT OUT! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_%28wartime%29#World_War_II]"

OT: Operation Sealion, the planned German invasion of the UK in 1940-41 would likely have been a complete disaster for the Germans. Most historians agree that with Hitler basically letting the BEF get back from Dunkirk, a German invasion simply couldn't have happened - even with limited German air superiority. More specific info about preparations and evaluations at the wiki article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion#Chances_of_success]

 

[bauke67]

Well, they didn't like Jewish people.... In fact, I believe for a fact, based on documents and recorded events, that they actually despised the Jewish people, and sent them to their deaths in specialized containment facilities hidden from the eyes of civilization...

Actually, these facilities were sometimes right under people's noses, where a whole town had a great view them.

Well, space was running short, so they had to make productive use of the bakeries. Can you blame em?

Haha, not for that anyway, I think.

 

[Thaluikhain]

OT: Operation Sealion, the planned German invasion of the UK in 1940-41 would likely have been a complete disaster for the Germans. Most historians agree that with Hitler basically letting the BEF get back from Dunkirk, a German invasion simply couldn't have happened - even with limited German air superiority. More specific info about preparations and evaluations at the wiki article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion#Chances_of_success]

According to some, it was much worse than that:
http://www.philm.demon.co.uk/Miscellaneous/Sealion.htm

So, instead of that, the Germans tried invading the USSR, which was a much better idea.

 

[Stuntcrab]

They created neurotoxin and the first assault rifle

Im assuming i'm the first to say that

 

[Dethenger]

Not necessarily about the Nazis, and I imagine rather hard to slip in, but interesting trivia. Hitler's family had a Jewish doctor when he was around 18 who, knowing the poor economic situation of the family, work for reduced prices, sometimes for free. At that point Hitler granted him his everlasting gratitude, and inquired about his well-being even as late as 1937, dubbing him "Edeljude," or Noble Jew. Hitler even went as far as to put him under Gestapo protection when asked for help. Wiki. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Bloch]

EDIT: If this has already been mentioned, it's early in the morning, I'm not reading the entire thread just to make sure.

 

[OneCatch]

OT: Operation Sealion, the planned German invasion of the UK in 1940-41 would likely have been a complete disaster for the Germans. Most historians agree that with Hitler basically letting the BEF get back from Dunkirk, a German invasion simply couldn't have happened - even with limited German air superiority. More specific info about preparations and evaluations at the wiki article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion#Chances_of_success]

According to some, it was much worse than that:
http://www.philm.demon.co.uk/Miscellaneous/Sealion.htm

So, instead of that, the Germans tried invading the USSR, which was a much better idea.

Hitler really was a proper fuckup of a military leader wasn't he? He was behind nearly ever major German failure during the war.

Germany not ready for war in 1939? Attack Poland!

BEF trapped, leaving UK without defence forces? Let them get back to UK and consolidate!

Nearly destroyed RAF? Attack London instead and give them chance to rebuild!

Belief in defeat because of two front war last time round? Open second front. Against Russia. With winter on the way.

D-day on the way? Refuse to allow Panzer units to be stationed near beaches.

D-Day happens? Send Panzers to Calais!

The list goes on... OP, feel free to use any of those!

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hitler really was a proper fuckup of a military leader wasn't he? He was behind nearly ever major German failure during the war.

Germany not ready for war in 1939? Attack Poland!

BEF trapped, leaving UK without defence forces? Let them get back to UK and consolidate!

Nearly destroyed RAF? Attack London instead and give them chance to rebuild!

Belief in defeat because of two front war last time round? Open second front. Against Russia. With winter on the way.

D-day on the way? Refuse to allow Panzer units to be stationed near beaches.

D-Day happens? Send Panzers to Calais!

The list goes on... OP, feel free to use any of those!

Well, he also did play a big part in the unprecedented victories against French and British troops at the beginning of the war.

And it's not really fair to blame D-Day on him, the Allies went to great lengths to deceive the Nazis about their true intentions. Patton was given command of an army which didn't actually exist (and he was not best pleased) so that the Nazis would keep some forces in reserve to deal with his attack, for example.

 

[Kiardras]

In 1940, seeing the way the war was going, a group of them established a secret base on the moon.....

 

[OneCatch]

Well, he also did play a big part in the unprecedented victories against French and British troops at the beginning of the war.

And it's not really fair to blame D-Day on him, the Allies went to great lengths to deceive the Nazis about their true intentions. Patton was given command of an army which didn't actually exist (and he was not best pleased) so that the Nazis would keep some forces in reserve to deal with his attack, for example.

Oh, admittedly! Though tbf, the Battle of France was more inspired by the Schlieffen Plan, and previously decided doctrine than Hitler's personal direction. The fact that Hitler's plans to invade Belgium coincided with prior plans (made by more astute tacticians) to avoid the Maginot Line was more coincidence than cleverness on Hitler's part.

About D-Day, the counter intelligence operations were frankly astounding in depth and breadth - though again, Hitler's personal bullishness led to a further delay in reaction to the landings.
You're right though, Hitler didn't so much cause that one as compound an already critical crisis!

 

[Captain Anon]

ok let's see Hitler was intrigued by alien tech and mythical artifacts and want alien based weapons known as Wunder Weapons to name a few: V1 and V2 rockets were greatly feared for being able to blow up a street block and V1s made a noise just before it chose it's target and started diving to it, V2 however didn't the noise and there for they were more feared than V1s they both had a proper name which was Douchebug or something like that

 

[Captain Anon]

ok let's see Hitler was intrigued by alien tech and mythical artifacts and want alien based weapons known as Wunder Weapons to name a few: V1 and V2 rockets were greatly feared for being able to blow up a street block and V1s made a noise just before it chose it's target and started diving to it, V2 however didn't the noise and there for they were more feared than V1s they both had a proper name which was Douchebug or something like that

I think your advice is 2 months late.

oh well