So. Torture.

[RhombusHatesYou]

Well, I'll preface this with torture doesn't actually work, because I feel the need to make that clear.

Thats not exactly true.

Torture is extremely unreliable for extracting information, especially if the information is time critical.

For other things, most falling under the category of 'evil shit', torture works all to well.


edit: just in case someone needs it spelled out for them, I do not condone torture.

 

[Hoplon]

EDIT 2: This thread is meant for a discussion about whether you'd choose torture in this unrealistic fantasy scenario; not about whether torture works in the real world.

Congratulations then you created a scenario where torture might be useful. they fact you have to bend so far over backwards to do it doesn't tell you more than anyone answers ever could?

 

[aliengmr]

No.

It just further validates a practice that should not happen. Its really easy to give in to fear, we (the US) did, and what we got out of it was even less moral standing than we had, which wasn't much post 2003. We lost so much more than we gained.

The problem with this fake scenario is it completely justifies torture when that clearly isn't the case. What's to stop us the next time we think we are guaranteed a positive result? Its never just the "one" time, its all the scenarios that follow.

So, no, not even if I am guaranteed the information would I torture.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

In such a ludicrous hypothetical I vote in favour of "teaching Al'Qaeda to love".

 

[Whispering Cynic]

Torture him. In a situation where you are choosing between one primitive's suffering and letting many innocent people die there can be only one answer.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I honestly don't see the big deal about water-boarding, it's pretty much the mildest form of torture out there especially when you have a doctor making sure the recipient is ok.

So you'd volunteer to let trainee interrogators practice on you?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Yep. That is not even a question for me. If I knew that that was the only way to get the info and that it would work, I would do it. Too many civilians would die otherwise.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Well sure, why not? Since this is a magic fantasy world we're talking about here, my unicorn pal will just heal the bad guy right up once I'm done so he'll feel even better than he did before! Then we'll ride on his back and get frosty chocolate milkshakes!

I say we use your unicorn to travel back in time and stop his parents from hooking up. Also, we could 'invent' rock'n'roll.

 

[Queen Michael]

EDIT 2: This thread is meant for a discussion about whether you'd choose torture in this unrealistic fantasy scenario; not about whether torture works in the real world.

Congratulations then you created a scenario where torture might be useful. they fact you have to bend so far over backwards to do it doesn't tell you more than anyone answers ever could?

The point of the question wasn't to justify real-lie torture. I'm against real-life torture. I just wanted to see how people would react if the effectiveness wasn't an issue.

 

[blackrave]

I have nothing against torture when it is necessary
But problem is more often that not it is pointless
People either do not crack or say lies
So why go so low?

 

[Fonejackerjon]

Torture him. In a situation where you are choosing between one primitive's suffering and letting many innocent people die there can be only one answer.

Agreed, I also believe in the death penalty for certain crimes, how can anyone tell me a child raping murderer should be kept alive is beyond me.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

So you'd volunteer to let trainee interrogators practice on you?

Well I'm not a terrorist so it would be somewhat pointless.

Are you not familiar with the term 'practice'?

 

[Kaymish]

in that scenario hell yeah but only because it appears to be more effective than the alternatives. though do i really want to stop the attack? if im a security agency the cost to my political capital will probably be about the same and i get to justify an increase to my budget and i can get a directive from the government to torture people in future making me potentially immune to prosecution and spending their political capital rather than mine and reap the rewards for stopping future attacks using it and also will i even have time to stop the attack if its happening tomorrow? will i even have enough time to torture the guy get the info and put my forces on alert to stop this attack? i doubt it.
so on second thoughts no i wouldn't torture the poor fellow even if he is religious and therefore not really human in the first place

however in the real world i do not support torture for the same reasons its simply not effective, actually its less than ineffective you will often just get out right lies as the victim says anything to get you to stop you will then have to waste time checking this info against other leads or going out and hunting out the wild goose chases you are lead on and on top of that you will have so many hippies crawling up your arse that id rather thats how i took my food and there is the whole moral questionablity of it which is what the op was after i think

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Well sure, why not? Since this is a magic fantasy world we're talking about here, my unicorn pal will just heal the bad guy right up once I'm done so he'll feel even better than he did before! Then we'll ride on his back and get frosty chocolate milkshakes!

I say we use your unicorn to travel back in time and stop his parents from hooking up. Also, we could 'invent' rock'n'roll.

I like it. Saves some time and allows me to meet Elvis. Everybody wins!

Don't forget to bring a sports almanac for your parents/grandparents (whichever is relevent to the time period).

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

So you'd volunteer to let trainee interrogators practice on you?

Well I'm not a terrorist so it would be somewhat pointless.

Are you not familiar with the term 'practice'?

I don't really see the point why I should go through it other than to see how it feels.

So trainee interrogators can do it properly when theyre doing it on a prisoner. Come on, be patriotic and take one for the team.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

What's the point of the question?

To see if you understand how dangerous and traumatic even the most 'minor' or 'mild' forms of torture are. People used to say the same sort of thing about Stress Positions despite the fact that certain stress positions can kill in a matter of hours.

If you're aware of all that then consider the matter at an end.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

1. In this hypothetical scenario, the torture is guaranteed to produce accurate information only.

2. There is no other way to acquire the information.

3. You know for sure that the attack will take place.

In this magic scenario where I know it will work, that the attack will occur and that this is the only way to find out then yeah, I would. Seeing as the torture is guaranteed to work no matter what I could torture them in any way I want, like making them play Sonic 2006. Might just do that.

Of course this kind of hypothetical scenario doesn't exist...

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

In this magic scenario where I know it will work, that the attack will occur and that this is the only way to find out then yeah, I would. Seeing as the torture is guaranteed to work no matter what I could torture them in any way I want, like making them play Sonic 2006. Might just do that.

How about making them attend an under 5s violin class recital? They can break even the strongest man (a former SASR trooper begged me for my soundgated ear plugs in order to attend his daughter's violin recital).

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

In this magic scenario where I know it will work, that the attack will occur and that this is the only way to find out then yeah, I would. Seeing as the torture is guaranteed to work no matter what I could torture them in any way I want, like making them play Sonic 2006. Might just do that.

How about making them attend an under 5s violin class recital?

Both. And I take their shoes and socks and cover the floor in loose Lego bricks.

My god, I've become a monster.

 

[MHR]

In this situation? Absolutely, without any hesitation. Kill nobody in order to save hundreds of people? Yes.