So Valve is not your friend, according to Polygon.

[darkrage6]

Posting clickbait racist games themed BS to try and bring in audience for ads instead of providing news on games?

If you're trying to insinuate here that advocating diversity is somehow racist, then at least I know I can safely ignore the original post, safe in the knowledge that there wasn't a valid point to be made in it.

Anyone thinks that making games more diverse is "racist" is incredibly ignorant.

 

[darkrage6]

Oh Polygon, you self righteous SOBs, when will you learn? Basically, it's them having a ***** fit over Valve's policies on Steam, but the way they write it, you would think Valve brutally murdered their entire families. To Polygon, I have to say, where was this attitude with companies like Apple or EA's digital service. If anything they come off as a jilted lover. Why do people subscribe to you again? You and Kotaku are the gaming equivalent of Fox News.

Jeez dude, the way you say it, you would think Polygon brutally murdered your entire family.

It's not a particularly well written article and the language is needlessly melodramatic but it presents some solid points and you haven't put forward a fucking thing to refute any of them.

My point is this, while they are not wrong (Steam Greenlight, lack of a refund policy before 2015), Polygon act like Steam is the only guilty of this, or Valve is the worst of the worst. My biggest problem with Polygon is that they pretend be good people, who are nothing more than a bunch of self-serving assholes who only do things to benefit their own agenda. Steam has many problems, but once again, they are not the worse of the worst. Valve ain't my friend, but they are not my enemy either. And Polygon seems really happy in painting them as mustache-twirly villains.

I notice you don't actually reply to their points and then overreact, much like they did.

Not really, I am just giving my perspective. I have overreacted to some things in my life, but I put my foot down when crap like this posted on the net like it's something "new", "groundbreaking", or "controversial".

You know, there's a subforum for topics like these here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/index/663-Game-Industry-Discussion

That said, of course Steam is not my "friend". But unlike Polygon, at least it's not my enemy.

I thought about it, but barely anyone talks on that sub-forum anymore, and most of the time it's some guys talking about tired topics of GamerGate/SJW/Anti-SJW nobody cares about anymore.

I think Polygon are good people and one could argue Valve themselves are "self serving assholes"(which else would they let CS:GO gambling go on for so long?)

 

[darkrage6]

A corporation isn't my friend? Say it ain't so!

Also, it's weird how some people like really hate some pretty harmless and bland websites like Polygon and Kotaku, or is this like an "ethics" thing that I'm just not getting? I dunno. I tend not to get angry about things like that.

I would not categorize polygon as harmless given they had something to do with those sites pushing the "you'll take what you've given" and being generally anti-consumer hacks.
whether people want to dwell on the ME3 controversy or not the gamers are entitled mythos arguably has not helped the fact that a fair bit of corporate games come to us peacemeil and mildly broken on day one.(not a big deal for me because, yah know Monkey island rule, and i mostly play indie anyway)
in fact if I'm not mistaken Colin Moriarty came from polygon and they were the folks that published this nonsense in the first place.

But if you disagree that then they are simply a bunch of corporate centrifuges, people being say "too old" to enjoy destiny, entitlement and the like doesn't really do anything but shit on their consumer base with sophist tripe.
The fact that they remain alive worries me greatly

They are not "anti-consumer" at all, and I find it hilarious that people are worried about them.

 

[Silvanus]

Anyone thinks that making games more diverse is "racist" is incredibly ignorant.

Would have to agree.

I enjoy seeing characters like myself, and don't get to see that terribly often. Sure, that's one reason I like to see greater diversity in games. But diversity-- in its very broadest sense, applying not only to characters but game modes, environments, everything-- is beneficial from an artistic point of view, as well. The wider the pool of experiences available, the more people will find something enjoyable, and that's unarguably good. That's why game types, modes, environments, etc should be diverse.

And, since games have narratives (well, almost all of them do) and people frequently enjoy them for narrative reasons, the same applies to characterisation. Diversify the character pool and you have less homogeneity, a wider net, more people with something enjoyable to experience (and occasionally relate to).

It's not a political argument (well, not mainly, anyway; that's only a small part of it). It's an artistic one.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think Polygon are good people and one could argue Valve themselves are "self serving assholes"(which else would they let CS:GO gambling go on for so long?)

I completely forgot about the CS:GO problem, thanks for reminding me. I said this before though, I don't see Valve as the good guys at all. They've got huge problems, but at least they attempt to fix some mistake. Yet, they still need do more and act on it fast. But between that and whatever Polygon going on about it's case of pick your poison. The self-serving asshole part still rings true on Polygon; the whole GamerGate thing. Then again, a lot of people on both sides on the fence look like equal assholes.

Comparing them to Faux is laughable.

Also keep in mind Polygon's opinion pieces do not represent the site as as a whole.

I think the article makes some good points, I blame Valve for how crazy DRM in PC games has gotten, as after Steam got popular publishers knew they could get away with putting DRM in their games on PC.

Also considering a judge admonished Valve for their actions, I think there is reason to be wary of Steam.

What would you compare Polygon to? Just out of curiosity. I know one of the user compared them to Buzfeed.

Anyone thinks that making games more diverse is "racist" is incredibly ignorant.

Agreed. While I usually prefer gameplay over story, that should not excuse the lack of diversity.

 

[darkrage6]

I think Polygon are good people and one could argue Valve themselves are "self serving assholes"(which else would they let CS:GO gambling go on for so long?)

I completely forgot about the CS:GO problem, thanks for reminding me. I said this before though, I don't see Valve as the good guys at all. They've got huge problems, but at least they attempt to fix some mistake. Yet, they still need do more and act on it fast. But between that and whatever Polygon going on about it's case of pick your poison. The self-serving asshole part still rings true on Polygon; the whole GamerGate thing. Then again, a lot of people on both sides on the fence look like equal assholes.

Comparing them to Faux is laughable.

Also keep in mind Polygon's opinion pieces do not represent the site as as a whole.

I think the article makes some good points, I blame Valve for how crazy DRM in PC games has gotten, as after Steam got popular publishers knew they could get away with putting DRM in their games on PC.

Also considering a judge admonished Valve for their actions, I think there is reason to be wary of Steam.

What would you compare Polygon to? Just out of curiosity. I know one of the user compared them to Buzfeed.

Anyone thinks that making games more diverse is "racist" is incredibly ignorant.

Agreed. While I usually prefer gameplay over story, that should not excuse the lack of diversity.

I don't have a problem with Buzzfeed for the most part, so that's not a comparison that really means anything to me. Some of the stories i've heard about Valve are disturbing, especially with how poorly they treated a trans-gendered employee(something which i've never heard of Polygon doing).

I agree with most of what Polygon said about GG.

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't have a problem with Buzzfeed for the most part, so that's not a comparison that really means anything to me. Some of the stories i've heard about Valve are disturbing, especially with how poorly they treated a trans-gendered employee(something which i've never heard of Polygon doing).

I agree with most of what Polygon said about GG.

Kinda like how the original Blue Ranger was harassed on and off the set for being gay. Do you have a link or news source about that story on Valve. If it's true, then that is another corporation on the asshole list.

 

[Frezzato]

I don't have a problem with Buzzfeed for the most part, so that's not a comparison that really means anything to me. Some of the stories i've heard about Valve are disturbing, especially with how poorly they treated a trans-gendered employee(something which i've never heard of Polygon doing).

I agree with most of what Polygon said about GG.

Kinda like how the original Blue Ranger was harassed on and off the set for being gay. Do you have a link or news source about that story on Valve. If it's true, then that is another corporation on the asshole list.

It's in the original link:

Much like the ones on their famously mobile desks, the wheels on that particularly romanticized notion appear to have fallen off. Former Valve employees have come out to slam the internal culture as being a high-school like mix of cliques and backstabbing, with another engineer saying it was "the worst experience of my life" and with desk setups similar to a "panopticon prison". Valve was even slapped with a court case after one transgender employee alleged that her supervisor constantly referred to her as 'it.'

 

[BrawlMan]

Much like the ones on their famously mobile desks, the wheels on that particularly romanticized notion appear to have fallen off. Former Valve employees have come out to slam the internal culture as being a high-school like mix of cliques and backstabbing, with another engineer saying it was "the worst experience of my life" and with desk setups similar to a "panopticon prison". Valve was even slapped with a court case after one transgender employee alleged that her supervisor constantly referred to her as 'it.'

Huh? How did I miss that? I'll give the guy on Polygon where credit is due on that one.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Wow, people are actually defending Polyg-

*reads usernames*

Hm.

Regardless, it's just some article on Polygon. Who cares, really? They want the attention. Why give it to 'em, OP? "Don't feed the trolls!" applies to these sorts of "news" organizations too, ya know.

Traffic is traffic.

Rage clicks are just as valuable to them as the self-righteous ones.

Ya really don't need that kind of negativity in your life, m8.

 

[Redryhno]

I'm just going to try and keep this short, but if you're seriously going to consider anything Polygon has to say of any real significance, then I'll try to remind you that this is the site that has financial ties to Microsoft(hint, hint), and routinely put out videos approaching their "First 30 minutes of Doom" vid that came out last year in terms of incompetence.

And if you continue to defend them, then I really don't see any real reason to really respond, far too much of a waste of my time.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

Valve's reputation has fallen so much over the last 10 years, this isn't really anything surprising. Valve has betrayed the trust of its fan base since like, every game after the Orange Box.

Most of the positive opinions of Valve came from when they released 5 god-tier games for only $50, summer sales, and free updates for tf2. All this without charging like Xbox Live. Oh, and you could also point to the number of concurrent steam users and CS1.6/CS:S players and say that PC gaming wasn't dead yet.

Then it was all downhill from there. If this was supposed to be a slap in the face to Valve fanboys, let's just say if you haven't changed your mind after the last 10 years, you probably will never do so.

 

[cleric of the order]

They are not "anti-consumer" at all,

>gamers are too old to enjoy destiny
>mass effect 3 is consumer entitlement
and i assume quite a bit more but i dropped that site pretty fast after this.
this sentiment that they produce is anti-consumer, it's trying to spin mediocre product into the consumers fault.
it's not that the game is bad and over-hyped, it's that YOU are wrong.

and I find it hilarious that people are worried about them.

I disagree.
the fact that the site is still up shows the there is a great lack of taste

 

[cleric of the order]

I'm sure there's probably reasons to legitimately dislike them but I was mostly surprised by the hostility.

I don't think there is a lot of actual hostility towards it, I like a tongue and cheek approach myself but there are friends of mine who are actually angry over it.

I generally just stop going to websites I don't like.

Same, reason why I'm not reading the article until i see an archive link of it, no clicks from me.

Also maybe it's just me but it seems like loads of things get labelled "anti-consumer" when it comes to gaming.

I mean that's because they are.
-selling the game piecemeal
-micro transactions
-dlc
-central servers and always online drm
-lack of optimization
-apologia for bad products. (see polygon)
-PAID MODS (now that i'm mad, that thing had to die, value why)
-fanboyisms and consol wars
-square enix and the consolidation of middle market titles into AAA tripe.
all of this strangles a dying industry

Personally I do think the customer base can be a bit sensitive like that.

rightly so, games have the highest price of any form of media and generally the worst time/money ratio.
and a great deal of people ain't rich, you could by almost 7 books for the cost of a new release and unless it's a multiplayer hog I'll get more time out of those books
The marginal utility of games is fucking weird, and having hucksters around doesn't help

 

[cleric of the order]

A bit sensitive if you read only the complains and not the profit figures from those things. Numbers talk: the consumers like those things. Personally I think the customer base has grown unsensitive to such practices because they are the norm in the industry (even if they didn't use to be before).

not sure if i agree.
From what i remember we were seeing a drop off in hardware and software sales overall.
squeeenix and capcom for instance were counting a bunch of losses even despite the major sales of some of their titles
Konami was mostly doing poorly bare the metal gear game
but it does annoy me that this hasn't happened faster
this shit should be unbearable for any gamer and yet the banal fields and codrones keep marching foward

 

[Rangaman]

I have no love for Polygon, but Valve isn't your friend. They'll tell you they are, but only as long as they keep getting access to your wallet. Next you'll be telling me that "Blizzard is perfect and is in no way related to those bumfucks at Activision!"

Also, for someone calling out melodrama you seem to be pretty melodramatic. After the DOOM saga and the complaints that WW2 shooter wasn't "diverse enough", I don't think any of us need reminding that Polygon is basically a professional baiting organization.

 

[Qoajo]

I've never loved Valve. Haven't hated it really either. As numerous others have stated, despite the rather melodramatic overtones, the article raises a few key points.

My real beef with Valve is the DRM shitstorm it throws at you. Unfortunately, GOG has a much smaller library, and I care more about video games than DRM, so thus, I use Steam.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

...I mean, it's not like they're wrong about Valve, they are a bit of a bullshit organization.

I'm just going to try and keep this short, but if you're seriously going to consider anything Polygon has to say of any real significance, then I'll try to remind you that this is the site that has financial ties to Microsoft(hint, hint), and routinely put out videos approaching their "First 30 minutes of Doom" vid that came out last year in terms of incompetence.

And if you continue to defend them, then I really don't see any real reason to really respond, far too much of a waste of my time.

...who's defending them? Outside one guy the running theme of the thread seems to be 'Polygon is bad but they do have a point about Valve being awful too'. If anything the 'defense' is just people having a go at OP for reacting to the article's tone rather than engaging with the points it was trying to make about Valve being god-awful.

Unless this was directed at the one guy, in which case, ignore me.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Whaaat, a multi-billion dollar company doesn't treat me like their friend?

They still beat most if not all digital distribution platforms, they might not be the best company in the world but I've never had real grudges against them.

But if they could release games instead of focusing on selling skins for their 5 to 10 year old games, that'd be great.

 

[darkrage6]

I don't have a problem with Buzzfeed for the most part, so that's not a comparison that really means anything to me. Some of the stories i've heard about Valve are disturbing, especially with how poorly they treated a trans-gendered employee(something which i've never heard of Polygon doing).

I agree with most of what Polygon said about GG.

Kinda like how the original Blue Ranger was harassed on and off the set for being gay. Do you have a link or news source about that story on Valve. If it's true, then that is another corporation on the asshole list.

Yes like that, she was also stiffed on payment for her work on translations:https://www.polygon.com/2016/5/24/11761242/valve-former-employee-lawsuit-transgender-discrimination