So what are the problems with male characters in games?

[white_wolf]

For me an issue for male leads anyway is they're too clone really the trend of dark haired, bad attitude, and dark past really need some variety. We can have dark haired guys but for crying out loud stop with the ani-soical, brick, homicidal full stop personality! Maybe its a guy thing I don't know but really I can't stand it sometimes to me the way the bulk of the male leads are now adays they could lose an arm, lose all their friends and family in a massacre, and not have a city to go back to and he'd not really care he'd just look at it shrug and go on with the mission that's ridiculous!

The dark past is just as cliche as amnesia. Dark pasts are like blankets that may or maynot get removed as the game goes on it just drapes the character in an excuse to make him a brick,anti-social, and give him the reason why he's allegedly a bloodthirsty maniac who will respond to order given.

We need more character development across the board for all leads and their party you can't go through all the crap they go through and be like just another day at the office IRL you just can't maybe its me wanting to have more realism in games but that could add a freaking lot to the game having your hero show his doubts, fears, likes, or approval for things he unfolds as a person throughout the game rather then is an unmoving stone the whole way through.

The anti-hero troupe anti means not or against so if you're against being a hero you're a villain or a jerk that wouldn't take on the challenge. If I'm an anti hero and I'm suppose to save my crummy town from destruction I'm against being a hero so I'm packing up my things I might tell a few people I like about the impending doom but otherwise I'm gone suckas!. I really hate how an anti-hero will play along with the plot to do whatever cuz he's an anti-hero no if he's going along with it willingly he's a hero which means he'd be there because he wants to ie he's not against it even if he's taking money he wants the money so he's undertaking the game.

Feeling and inflection men need to show these two traits when speaking I hate monotone and thats usually what I get or screaming to be fallowed by more monotone. The later just makes him look bi-polar.

 

[Shymer]

If I am playing a story that has a narrative, then I need a protagonist. Regardless of gender, that protagonist needs several features to appeal to me.

1. Agency. The character needs an objective formed by their values and must be active in trying to achieve that objective.
2. In conflict. The character must meet resistance to meeting their objective from themselves, others and the world.
3. That escalates. The character must be forced out of the obvious solutions into new behaviour or risk
4. Change. The character must fundamentally change as a result of the conflict.
5. With a twist. The values, conflicts or change should be novel - new to me
6. Without breaking my suspension of disbelief.
7. But with a sense of wit. Wit is a combination of the absurd, but with a deep truth behind it.

You might call this a "satisfying character arc". I would expect the antagonists to have a similar arc - and the people the protagonist meets to also have arcs. I would expect, for good conflict, for their values to be different on some level with dilemma, debate and disagreement fuelling the story.

I think, from this perspective, that many characters in games, like many characters in novels, or on film, don't meet these criteria. It's really hard - and cannot be a tick box exercise as a writer. Many writers in the games industry are not skilled or experienced. I have friends who have started in level design and Q&A who have been drafted in to write scripts for (very well-known) games. Many are not highly educated, or trained in writing, they just have a long history in games. They work under intense time pressure, with entire debating societies of "betters" who cannot help but tinker with the story. It's no surprise that some of the common pitfalls that experienced writers fall into trap these people as well.

Visually I don't care. What a protagonist looks like does not bother me. Perhaps that's a sign of my age. I think there are visual stereotypes and cliches, that could be used as a part of a character's story, but it would need careful handling.

My favourite male protagonist is Garrett from Thief. We learn about his values by what he does. He has pride in his work and avoids killing. He is greedy and selfish. He has a problem with authority. He meets the world with a cynical, snide exterior, but he is a romantic at heart. He is clever and thoughtful, but a risk-taker. Even if I don't agree with his line of work - I can really empathise with him. Am I bothered that he isn't built like a brick privy - and doesn't overtly romance anyone (although he fancies his mate's sister and has a bit of a thing with a nymph)? No.

 

[NoeL]

I don't play enough "story" games to have an opinion, really. I generally have no interest in the personality and motivations of the character I'm playing as - they're just a tool to experience the game through (my gaming habits can almost be summed up as Nintendo, Minecraft and Skyrim). But of the modern games I've played that have male protagonists with "personalities", all Western examples seem to be the unironic badass (e.g. Master Chief, the leads from Darksiders), while Eastern examples are the stoic supermen (e.g. Wander, Aeron. Solid Snake is the exception, though the Metal Gear Solid games are heavily inspired by the West so it's no surprise they made him the unironic badass instead).

Oh, but if we're looking at retro titles too, around the turn of the 90's practically every male video game (and cartoon) character was too cool for school, ala Sonic the Hedgehog. The Simpson's even parodied it with Poochie the Dog. So that was a thing.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to give credit to the writers of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time for creating a character with flaws that isn't a lame-ass anti-hero. Someone that actually grows out of those flaws over the progression of the game. I sound like Yahtzee, but damn that's a good game. We need more characters like that.

EDIT AGAIN: Oh, and since we're talking about characters and not necessarily protagonists, I like antagonists to have purpose behind their actions beyond lust for power. Less OoT Ganondorf and more tWW Ganondorf.

 

[Erttheking]

What does bother me though, is the ludacris amount of attention female "problems" are getting, whereas the male "problems" are being dismissed as non-existent.

You might want to take another look at the OP

To start off with a little preamble, keep the comparisons to female issues and problems out of this thread, this isn't for pointing out what you perceive as double standards, or trying to make one sides problems look worse or better. This isn't the oppression Olympics, this topic has nothing to do with who has it worse, this topic is for exactly what it says on the tin.

OT: I'm gonna have to chime in with the complaint that we still seem to be stuck in the mindset that we have to have male leads with permanent sticks up their asses and an inability to lighten the Hell up. Though like with female protagonists, we actually have been getting better with this as of late. I'm really looking forward to Infamous Second Son because the main character doesn't pull this crap.. "I have super powers? AWESOME!" He has a freaking personality and in the first trailer when he was blasting off into the sky so he could slam down into enemy forces, he just had the biggest smile on his face. So yeah, more of that please.

 

[The_Scrivener]

My biggest issue, personally, with male gaming characters is that a lot of them assume I'm a dumbass. I started Binary Domain yesterday and quit 15 minutes in because a wisecracking black character asked me if I liked women and vacations. When I said, "No" to make sure he understood his mission partner wasn't a 13 year old acne-infested hard-on farm he reassured me I might have a chance to score before the game was over.

Seriously? THIS is what SEGA thinks of me?

If you want a reason to dislike Binary Domain, that is a poor example. You have your own preconceptions, fair enough, but in the story the guy you're playing is a literal "dudebro" and that scene is a dudebro exchanging quips with his fellow bro+ setting up a plot threads for later, not that you'd know it if you quit 15 mins in xD
Its nothing to do with how sega views you but serves to establish the personality of those 2 characters and their friendship, even if its a personality/behavioral norm you despise.
And other characters who are not your dudebro actually respond to the protagonist really negatively when he acts like a "dumbass". Heck you can troll the british guy you recruit later by having him being with you and your dudebro 24/7 and tormenting him with constant dudebroeness.

So what you're saying is that even 15 minutes was too long.

 

[Zhukov]

Levity, and a balance thereof.

Why yes, I would like to elaborate on that.

Whenever the subject of emotions and male characters comes up, there always seems to be this assumption that the only emotions are "Grrr" and "Waah". People say there's too much "Grrr" and we need more "Waah". But not too much "Waah" obviously, because that's for JRPGs and it wouldn't make my balls feel big.

Now I agree with that, but what about "Haha"? Seriously, what about some fucking levity from time to time? It seems to me that too many male characters are somehow above cracking a damn smile once in a while. Characters like Batman and, yes, Marcus Fenix. Too busy being manly and grim I suppose.

Obviously they shouldn't be laughing their heads off all the time. Then you get something like Nathan Drake, who seems like a prick at best and psychotic at worst. But they should be able to express some amusement when the situation permits. It can be used to add to characterization too. Do they sit back and chuckle quietly? Do they have a deep booming laugh? Do they make people groan with bad puns?

This is part of reason why I liked Lee, Joel and Booker DeWitt. While they weren't all particularly happy men, hell, some of them were downright grim, they were still capable of expressing something other than grimness in non-grim situations. Y'know, like an actual person.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

By far the most pressing problem would seem to be that at least the protagonists are always all the same: 30-something (or 40-ish if you're really adventurous), short brown-haired, handsome white american (or at least american accented) heterosexuals with varying levels ruggedness. Some might be bald (Kratos) or have a beard (Joel), but that's about all the variety you get in terms of appearance.

Wouldn't it be nice for a change if we had a slightly overweight, cockney-accented, ponytail-wearing bespectacled asexual 53-year old as a protagonist? Would break up the tedium for sure. Or *gasp* someone who doesn't speak english at all??? I know, terrifying.

This is probably an extension of most games being poorly written and most people playing them being too close to illiteracy to demand better (there's no incentive for devs to strive for quality when most of their audience thinks 'quality' means 'Game of Thrones' or 'shounen manga').

I'd be really interested to hear why you put Game of Thrones in this context.

 

[Fox12]

Well, I'm sick to the stomach of the grizzled white guy with a chip on his shoulder. Honestly, we need to get a support group together for these people. For the most part I think this is a result of bad writing. Lee, from walking dead, was a breath of fresh air. Not just because there aren't enough African American protagonists in gaming, but also because he wasn't just some muscly action hero. He was awesome when he needed to be, but he was as vulnerable as everyone else. Also, I'm a history major, so playing as a history professor is an automatic win.

Also, the God of War games. Crazy guy murders everything, and then he proceeds to bone everything. I'm more insulted that the creators just assumed that that's precisely what I wanted. Sex mini games. I'll take character development instead.

The problem with male characters in games is that they're mostly uninteresting and poorly written. This is probably an extension of most games being poorly written and most people playing them being too close to illiteracy to demand better (there's no incentive for devs to strive for quality when most of their audience thinks 'quality' means 'Game of Thrones' or 'shounen manga').

And exactly what kind of problem do you have with Game of Thrones, apart from being It's popular, now it sucks?
Frankly, I would agree with your post if it wasn't for how utterly neckbearded you made that sound.

Game of Thrones is pretty shallow. The story isn't going anywhere, and Martin has basically said he has no idea how he's going to get the books to the ending he imagined. He makes most of it up as he goes. It's entertaining, don't get me wrong, but when you can skip entire chapters or character arcs in a book, and miss nothing, there's a pretty serious issue with pacing and character development.

 

[Frankster]

So what you're saying is that even 15 minutes was too long.

In your case yup, which is fair enough and its regrettable you wasted your money

But just so long as we are clear you kinda reached incorrect conclusions and jumped the gun a bit due to over saturation of particular tropes that had nothing to do with the game itself. Like I said there are plenty of reasons to dislike Binary Domain (though personally it's one of my guilty pleasures, hence why i'm sticking up a bit for it now) but that really wasn't one of them.

 

[rcs619]

Let's see, a lot of stuff has already been mentioned (I just skimmed so sorry if I repeat somebody), but how about this one...

- Variety: Nearly every main character in a mainstream game these days is white and straight, with short brown hair (usually gruff, but occasionally snarky). Actually, when is the last time anyone even remembers seeing a black, hispanic, or asian character in a videogame that wasn't a supporting character (usually one-note, stereotype, or dies to give the white main character some motivation), or one of the guys that the main character mows down in droves? Has there even been a middle-eastern character in recent videogame memory that wasn't a badguy? Homosexual characters have it pretty bad too. Besides the shuttle pilot from Mass Effect 3, I can't remember a single homosexual character in a recent videogame that was actually portrayed as a real, normal person, instead of an effeminate, exaggerated stereotype.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with white, brown-haired males (I am one, afterall ), but it would really be nice to have some variety. Show that other kinds of people can be heroes sometimes.

And to be fair, this issue actually affects female characters in much the same way. There's just a general lack of variety in main characters in general, really.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

A greater emotional spectrum. I don't mind grizzled angry space marines, but it would be nice to actually learn why they act the way they do.

They should also be more flawed and human. Perfect characters who never evolve are pretty boring, at least if the developers intention is for the audience to connect with them emotionally.

I'm not saying that there aren't room for Marcus Fenix and Kratos. I would just like some more variety.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Emotion is a big problem when writing male characters... so they parody it by making them average in every way. And that never works.

Because most writers in games are men, and thus spend a lot of time with male friends, probably characterise their friends accordingly, but it can become hard to write a character that you feel like you should probably know but you don't, and you'll probably never meet anyone like them.

And thus, we get

a) The anti-hero

b) The idiotic savior

c) The token fanservice character

And gaming has never gotten out of this ditch, ever. That, and a lot of their designs look begrudgingly similiar to each other. VERY.

 

[Uhura]

Yeah, as others have already mentioned, I think we need more visual variation in the character designs and the characters need a wider emotional range. I personally tend to gravitate towards more realistically proportioned characters whose verbal skills aren't limited to grunting. Essentially, I wish there were more Alistairs, Alan Wakes, Lees and Francis York Morgans in video games. There are plenty of popular TV/movie characters which avoid the Broody McStoneface thing entirely and audiences still enjoy them.

Spoiler

It's not impossible.

 

[Skull Bearer]

I am so sick of men being the default mooks who get mowed down by the protagonist. It desensitises people to male on male violence and reinforces the idea that women have no place in combat. Gender equal mooks!

 

[MrSir231]

One series I feel does male characters well is the Kingdom Hearts series. Love it or hate it, they don't have all their male characters fitting the typical archetype. They show emotion and aren't afraid to break down and cry when it's appropriate. The only ones who don't really show emotion are the ones who literally can't, due to not having a heart and all. However, even those can sometimes show emotion, although whether it's real or not is debatable.

 

[Yuuki]

I am so sick of men being the default mooks who get mowed down by the protagonist. It desensitises people to male on male violence and reinforces the idea that women have no place in combat. Gender equal mooks!

As soon as we see all combat/infantry roles with 50/50 gender equality.

Yeah I know games are all fantasy and therefore can be about anything, but a lot of fantasy tends to remain at least somewhat grounded in reality. Especially in games that are going for "realistic" depictions (e.g. military shooters).
What you see in videogames reflects maybe 1% of the huge picture and cultural mentality that women have no place in combat. It's unfair to expect videogames to change quickly, as cool as that would be. Women having no place in combat is something some women themselves say...yes, women who have been in such roles and realized the kind of toll it takes on their bodies. Quite a lot of medical data collected over the decades has also shown that it's just a bad idea to send women into roles/places where things get physically demanding, and the scary thing is that there is still a lot to learn about the long-term repercussions on the female body.

I guess Skyrim stands as proof that we can at least kill women in games without feeling bad for them