So what's your take on this "Forest Boy of Germany" crap?

[Westaway]

"Let's have sex"
"Alright!"

~20 minutes later~

"The condom broke"
"Well, shit"
"You're probably pregnant, you should get an abortion"
"No. I'm keeping it and yoi're going to have to pay for it for the rest of your life"
"I don't want you to keep it"
"Doesn't matter, I made the choice even though it was both our mistake."

That doesn't sound fair at all.

Everything sounds unfair when you strawman it hard enough, suggesting that she isn't going to pay for it the rest of her life as well, whether she has an abortion or not. Who cares that her life is completely and forever changed, he should just fuck and run.

I have no idea what strawmaning is, you're going to have to explain that to me. The point I was trying to make is not that only the man will suffer or some stupid shit like that. What I'm saying is that although it was both of their mistake, only one has the choice. I personally find that stupid, but I guess I could be persuaded otherwise.
Obviousky you meant to type "shouldn't" at the end there. Funny typo.

 

[Rastien]

If he's not ready to be a father, but she is ready to be a mother, they shouldn't be together. A child shouldn't be brought up in an unstable environment where the parent's resent each other. Otherwise, they end up running off into the woods and claiming they lived there. Or to put it another way, a guy with serious father issues doesn't want to be a father.

I agree it sucks for the girl, she never asked to get pregnant (we assume?), but given his history would perhaps a shred of empathy for the idiot father go amiss?

And now we move onto discussing Tarzan in Berlin

I don't think anybody is arguing that they should be together. Just that he should be responsible for the kid he helped create. She didn't sperm-jack him.

I think what Blah is trying to say is that there should be some sort of opt-out of fatherhood if the dude wanted her to get an abortion. Honestly, I'm not completely against this idea, but I don't see it as something that could actually be practically implemented.
Sadly, he has to be responsible. She didn't sperm-jack him, he chose to have sex. It is sad that he didn't get a say in whether or not she terminated the pregnancy but by that point it was her body and so her decision. I know some people will hate me for that but until they invent some sort of mechanical man-womb I dont see any other way around it.

Sperm Jack... this is a new word to me and one i am finding terrfying :S

 

[Phasmal]

Sperm Jack... this is a new word to me and one i am finding terrfying :S

Its like hijacking only spermier.
Edit to avoid low-content: I just thought people should remember girls don't get themselves pregnant. Yeah, guys dont have a lot of choice in the abortion matter cause it's not their body - and I really can't see that changing.

 

[Rastien]

Sperm Jack... this is a new word to me and one i am finding terrfying :S

Its like hijacking only spermier.
Edit to avoid low-content: I just thought people should remember girls don't get themselves pregnant. Yeah, guys dont have a lot of choice in the abortion matter cause it's not their body - and I really can't see that changing.

I had visions of sperm jacking involving myself getting jacked off, all is well, then this girl whom i never slept with is preggos with my kid >_>

 

[theonewhois3]

Personally, all my scorn is directed at the girl for considering having sex with this guy in the first place.

 

[hino77]

Personally, all my scorn is directed at the girl for considering having sex with this guy in the first place.

Yeah, that was a stupid idea wasnt it?Both of them didnt really think this stuff through i guess.

Also the stuff that Wayside said. He`s practicaly reading my mind, the difference is he knows how to phrase it, becouse i suck at that ^ ^.

 

[theonewhois3]

Personally, all my scorn is directed at the girl for considering having sex with this guy in the first place.

Yeah, that was a stupid idea wasnt it?Both of them didnt really think this stuff through i guess.

Also the stuff that Wayside said. He`s practicaly reading my mind, the difference is he knows how to phrase it, becouse i suck at that ^ ^.

Sex tends not to be one of those premeditated activities, where everyone involved sits down together over a cup of tea and works out the cost benefit ratios of different contraception and the optimal ratio of comfort and protection. Rather, its sex.

 

[Sun Flash]

I was most shocked when I saw it on the news, since I first read about him a few months ago in a Cracked article and found it weird the media were only picking up on it now.

Other than that, I honestly don't know what to think, it's all a bit weird and I feel bad passing judgement when we only know such a tiny fraction of the full story.

 

[lacktheknack]

Well, I DID have an opinion on this, but now I'm not going to touch this with a forty foot pole. Thanks, page one.

 

[Petromir]

Personally, all my scorn is directed at the girl for considering having sex with this guy in the first place.

Yeah, that was a stupid idea wasnt it?Both of them didnt really think this stuff through i guess.

Also the stuff that Wayside said. He`s practicaly reading my mind, the difference is he knows how to phrase it, becouse i suck at that ^ ^.

Sex tends not to be one of those premeditated activities, where everyone involved sits down together over a cup of tea and works out the cost benefit ratios of different contraception and the optimal ratio of comfort and protection. Rather, its sex.

Quite a lot of murders not carefully happened and is spur of the moment passion stuff. Generally this isn't a defense.

Nor should a spur of the moment decision the have sex with someone be any way to get out of the consequences. Yes you generally have to make do with whatever contraception you have to hand, unlike a couple in a longer term relationship who at some point should at discuss whats best for them, but if you lack any or it doesn't work then you have to accept responsibility, BOTH of those involved should be expected to, assuming both are deemed to have been mentally able to consent to the activity at that time (and if one of them wasn't then there's criminal charges to be levied).

Abortion is a tricky subject, ultimately hinging on when you believe its life. While i do support it on a range of reasons, I certainly don't believe it should be used as a method of contraception.

 

[theonewhois3]

snipy

You're attacking a non existent position here. Besides, that's a false equivalence anyway.

 

[Petromir]

snipy

You're attacking a non existent position here. Besides, that's a false equivalence anyway.

The argument I was putting across was that heat of the moment passion does not absolve one from the consequences. I was not trying to suggest that murder was equivalent to sex or to abandoning a women that you've knocked up.

 

[theonewhois3]

snipy

You're attacking a non existent position here. Besides, that's a false equivalence anyway.

The argument I was putting across was that heat of the moment passion does not absolve one from the consequences. I was not trying to suggest that murder was equivalent to sex or to abandoning a women that you've knocked up.

And I agree.

 

[Phasmal]

Man losses all rights to child and isn't considered the father and doesn't pay anything.

Fuck, that was really really hard.

Practically as in something that could be legally binding while still protecting from guys just using that as a massive cop-out the second they change their mind. AND the fact that those kids have to be supported somehow.
I don't see it being put into law any time soon is what I meant. Not saying the system we have now is perfect.

 

[Catie Caraco]

Or to put it another way, a guy with serious father issues doesn't want to be a father.

If he didn't want to be a father he shouldn't have had vaginal sex. End of story. It's not like that's the only option for him to get off. From what I've seen he's got two perfectly functional hands, and there are two other holes on every human body that a penis can fit in.

Apologies to CaptainMarvelous, and I just want to say a lot of the ire that I'm about to unleash isn't really targeted at you, but at the entire INSANE vibe I've been getting from many of the posts that he's allowed to have sex and not deal with the consequences. I don't know if contraception was used or not, but as has been said before, with them or without them, EVERY time a fertile man has vaginal sex with a fertile woman, he risks getting her pregnant. This should not be news to anyone, this has gone on since the dawn of sexual reproduction!

I'm not saying he's any more responsible than the woman, and I am not a proponent of stupid people running around unwisely making babies when they aren't in a position to take care of them. But an abortion is not a get out of jail free card, and the caviler attitude I've seen in a lot of posts are most definitely coming from men who will NEVER have to face that decision in their lives. There is NO stigma attached to a guy who knocked up a girl who then got an abortion, while women can't even walk into some health clinics without passing a picket line of protesters calling her a slut. That's happened to me and I was just going for a yearly exam and some birth control pills, for god's sake!

The fact of the matter is pregnancy is REALLY easy to avoid when you're purely rational and logical about it, but these two were young adult humans, not Vulcans. So they BOTH made a mistake and they BOTH need to own up to it and deal with it. Eventually this boy is gonna have to face the music, and I'd rather it be now than later.