So You Want To Be a Game Developer?

Rosiv

New member
Oct 17, 2012
370
0
0
I wanted to be a programmer for videogames. I flunked out of comp sci though due to my incompetence. I switched to biology, but in my spare time I still want to learn coding and maybe try at it again. Hearing this is a bit depressing, but I knew it from stories I heard beforehand sadly.
 

Zakarath

New member
Mar 23, 2009
1,244
0
0
Mm. I went to a college, majored in game dev, with a focus on 3D graphics. Graduated over a year ago, haven't managed to land any sort of job in the industry. Spend my time these days looking for part time jobs and still trying to make my art portfolio good enough that maybe someone will hire me.

Sucks.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Actually to put things into a different perspective: From a lot of what I've heard and run into over the years things aren't QUITE what Shamus paints or haven't been. Game developers tend to be seriously overpaid for relatively safe, easy, white collar work. The value of a degree in a world where nearly everyone has one isn't much, sure it takes a lot of money to go to school to learn this stuff, but that's true for just about everything. I spent a fortune taking Criminal Justice classes (specializing in Forensics) for example, and wound up working Casino Security, never had many serious problems, but the dangers were present, and I made a fraction of what the white collar brigade did.

At the end of the day like a lot of white collar professions, management, travel and tourism, various artistic professions, etc..., tend to get it into their head that they aren't going to have to work at all and are going to enter into some kind of individualistic position where they are going to spend less time working and more time socializing as they do things at their own pace. In reality someone who say goes into Resteraunt and Hotel Management usually winds up being a gofer for the owners rather than being someone who runs the place and tells other people what to do. Someone going into IT fields is expected to actually run around and fix things, and do it at a rapid pace since things are always going to need work, not to hang out and smoke and joke in a workshop, doing a bit of work here and there, while raking in the money.

Some game developer needing to go out and actually work constantly, pounding out lines of code, allegedly surprises people who aren't expecting to have to work that way on the job. Having a pile of debt as Shamus puts it is simply being a modern of American, that's what everyone who goes to school winds up with, and as far as how much you get paid it's never as much as you hope for in school. You take a look at what a game developer actually makes and compare it to oh say a Casino Security Officer, all without every having to wonder if he'll get his neck sliced with a beer bottle while responding to an incident in a night club, and it's a pretty sweet racket.

Of course then again there is the whole other point to the game development racket that a lot of people overlook which is how the cost of computers and materials are minimal compared to these massive budgets, the big cost is of course going towards human resources which gives you some idea how much game developers are making. The game development costs constantly rising as these people demand more and more money even with the layoffs and such. What's more one of the big reasons why a lot of games go over budget and such is because apparently a lot of game developers DO have rather bohemian policies which means that the developers get paid out of the game budget without doing all that much in the way of actual game creation. Occasionally leading to these infamous "Crunch times" where it turns out all the time goofing off needs to be made up to get a game out before the release date and the publisher comes hunting for heads. Such last minute rushes are also apparently why a lot of games are released in such a craptastic stake. Developers might have spent 3.5 years of a game development cycle ordering pizza and playing Magic The Gathering, and then had to do the meat of actual game creation towards the end.

Now you might be saying "Hey Theru, what's your source on this?" well, while it's not popular there have been some exposes of sorts over the years. While it was blasted by those with "friends in the industry" I still remember an old Maxim article about "Why Game Developers Drive Ferraris" which gave a list of job titles and the actual pay scale expected at each one (albeit years ago). In addition I've actually paid attention to some of this "behind the scenes" stuff over the years where they do tours of game development studios and the like, going past the cubicles where people work, and so on. To say that they aren't professional looking workplaces, full of toys, people goofing off, and so on is an understatement. If I did a walk through of a cubicle farm at the casinos (IT, accounting, human resources, etc...) and it looked anything like that I'd probably be called upon to make a report while upper management went on a bloody warpath. While again it was years ago, I remember seeing some behind the scenes stuff for Alan Wake that had me thinking "you know, I'm not surprised these guys started out with plans for this open world horror game, and then created a linear shooter that wasn't even close to what was originally suggested". When Relic (I think it was) went out of business I read some articles about their abandoned offices, and one thing that got left behind was a broken statue of a 40k Space Marine. Now granted that is one of their IPs, but I do have to ask what that is doing in their work space, and furthermore who exactly commissioned a one of a kind plastic (presumably) statue, and who paid for it?

Now yeah, this does kind of make me a jerk, but the bottom line is that I think Game Development is a fine field for those who want to go into it, I just think a lot of people that do get involved tend to be drama queens, like a lot of the white collar brigade, not bothering to look at how everyone else is doing. Of course then again I have a fair amount of disrespect for most white collar professions. Respond to a rowdy hotel room party, fight at a gaming table, alcohol shut off, disturbance in a bar or night club, or try and help handle a drug overdose at a concert, or any one of dozens of other things I've done (albeit not constantly, mostly security is very quiet) and then QQ about how underpaid and stressful your job is. Piles of student debt? Welcome to America. A work commute that might take an hour, again, welcome to the real world. No time for a social life? Yep, that's the real world. Toughen up buttercup, and be glad you've never had to hold up a sheet to give the EMTs privacy while they try and save someone's life and fail (which has happened to me incidently) then tell me about how crappy your job can be. Worried about getting fired constantly? All employees are disposable, I did 6 years at one casino 4 at the other, in today's world that means I saw people come and go through the job, all people are disposable to employers, it sucks, but that's life. It's not something unique to "game development" it's simply normal. In any job you need to find ways to make yourself indispensable (in my case I went in for every bit of special training and every special qualification I could get).
 

natenate95

Invalid CD key
Nov 5, 2008
48
0
0
Zakarath said:
Mm. I went to a college, majored in game dev, with a focus on 3D graphics. Graduated over a year ago, haven't managed to land any sort of job in the industry. Spend my time these days looking for part time jobs and still trying to make my art portfolio good enough that maybe someone will hire me.

Sucks.
by chance do u have a portfolio website you could link?

I'm almost in your position, went to GMU's game design program and will graduate in december. Right now im thinking about using the bachelors to get into army OCS, or just regular enlisted e-4 rather than spend another 1-2 years struggling to find a position
 

Zakarath

New member
Mar 23, 2009
1,244
0
0
natenate95 said:
Zakarath said:
Mm. I went to a college, majored in game dev, with a focus on 3D graphics. Graduated over a year ago, haven't managed to land any sort of job in the industry. Spend my time these days looking for part time jobs and still trying to make my art portfolio good enough that maybe someone will hire me.

Sucks.
by chance do u have a portfolio website you could link?

I'm almost in your position, went to GMU's game design program and will graduate in december. Right now im thinking about using the bachelors to get into army OCS, or just regular enlisted e-4 rather than spend another 1-2 years struggling to find a position
I would, except I kinda like keeping my forum life disconnected from the places where I use my real name...
 

Lazule

New member
Oct 11, 2013
131
0
0
Bottom line:
Don't do it!

...

Except if you are going to work for From Software.

Woah, seriously now: the life of a game dev can be boring and grim... I agree with the general advice here learn to your hearts content (save up your money on the process) and make games for yourself, if they are complex and fun enough and I hope they are...! you noob!! Sell them on Steam.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
Therumancer said:
nooooo ooooneee caaaaaares about your apparent vendetta against white collar workers

OT: yeah even compared to other "creative" industries games seem pretty bad
 

J Tyran

New member
Dec 15, 2011
2,407
0
0
Going to be honest here, I don't want to be a game developer. Or a game-centric YouTuber, gaming "journalist" or anything else to do with the industry. I like playing games and its one of my main hobbies, I tried turning a hobby into a profession before and it was a terrible mistake that ruined the hobby. Worse still it didn't appear to be a mistake until I had committed too much into it, over a decade on (15+ in fact) and that hobby is still ruined for me.

So I learned my lesson about trying to turn something I was interested in and passionate about into a job, I won't be making that mistake again.
 

Jak2364

New member
Feb 9, 2010
182
0
0
Huh, I only saw a little bit of this in my first year at college, but now it kinda sounds good I didn't stay all four years. I hope all my friends still in it end up being the lucky ones. I wish developers could form unions or at least shine more light on all the shit they have to go through so that us consumers could help change the system.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
11,286
7,082
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
It's kind of wierd/sad when I read about a career and the first thing that comes to mind is "Man, being a military recruiter doesn't seem so bad after reading that".
 

Albino Boo

New member
Jun 14, 2010
4,667
0
0
BrotherRool said:
The weird thing about the "anyone can start a project and get other people interested" is that no-one ever has. Or at least there has never been a case where an employer at Valve had an exciting idea for a new IP (since Half-Life 1) and got everyone else excited and made that game.

Check this list of their published games:
Half-Life (1998) - Valve's only original inside IP. Presumably Gabe Newell's idea
Team Fortress (1999) - Fan created mod. Valve hired the guys who developed it and then published it and made improvements
Counter-Strike (2000) - Fan created mod. Valve hired the guys who developed it and then published it and made improvements
Day of Defeat (2003) - Fan created mod. Valve bought the rights, published it and made improvements
Half-Life 2 (2004) -Sequel
Counter-Strike: Source (2004) - Remake
Day of Defeat: Source (2005) - Remake
Half-Life 2: Episode 1 (2006) -Sequel
Half-Life 2: Episode 2 (2007) - Sequel
Team Fortress 2 (2007) - Sequel
Portal (2007) - Game concept developed by a group at Digipen. Valve hired the guys who developed it, made improvements and published.
Left 4 Dead (2008) - Developed by Turtle Rock Studios. Valve hired the guys who developed it, made improvements and published.
Left 4 Dead 2 (2009) - Sequel
Alien Swarm (2010) - Fan made mod. Valve bought the rights and remade it.
Portal 2 (2011) - Sequel
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (2012) - Sequel
Dota 2 (2013) - Fan made mod. Valve hired the guy who developed it, made improvements and published it (with a 2 in the name)

I don't understand why, when anyone at Valve can start any project they want, no Valve employee (except Gabe Newell) has ever wanted to make their own game and then gone and done so.

In fact the only time that has happened was with Turtle Rock Studios, who quit Valve and then made their own IP.
They only have 300 odd people working for Valve. By the time you take away those supporting steam, the normal HR and legal functions that does not leave many people. When you take all those people away that just leaves enough to build a new engine. In theory you free to start any project you want be you are under the direct view of a multi billionaire boss everyday and in the real world any idea that he doesn't like you will soon know about. Fundamentally Valve is a retail platform with a side line in games. It didn't used to be that way, but post steam, that is what Valve is.
 

choren64

New member
Aug 2, 2011
17
0
0
I've always been told during my high school years about how most "Game Design" universities were essentially huge scams. Now while it may not apply to all of them, it certainly makes me happy knowing what I am studying can apply to many different businesses. A lot of the gaming culture has made "game careers" look very appealing, so its nice that you are able to lay it down a peg and explain the possible reality behind working in AAA.

But again, its all a matter of circumstances. Not every job is going to be a cubicle hell, just like not every job is going to be in a pimp graphic design dream office with massage chairs scattered around the building. Although I feel like these AAA "norms" point to why so many people have left to become independent game developers now (which can be both a good and bad thing).
 

Bat Vader

New member
Mar 11, 2009
4,996
0
0
I would love to get into game development but sadly I don't have the head for making a game at all. The only way I could ever get into any type of game development is getting picked to be a writer. I took an introductory class in programming but I dropped the class about half-way through because I couldn't(and still can't)understand programming at all. I have stories written that I would love to turn into indie games but sadly I can't.
 

Robyrt

New member
Aug 1, 2008
568
0
0
Therumancer said:
How many aspiring game developers are going to get a job in a casino? Almost none of them. Instead, you should compare to a job that they could have had instead, with equivalent skills and training. As Shamus points out, going into the private sector tech industry instead, you'll get paid more for less work, more stability, and an equally cushy white-collar office environment.

It sounds like your career path is just as unstable, underpaid, and unhealthy as game development, but that doesn't have to be the norm. I spent a lot of time and money getting a job that doesn't have any of these problems. I'm sorry to inform you, however, that it doesn't involve goofing off all day for 6 months and then realizing I actually needed to write some code. If you think your security job is more action-packed than mine, we are hiring :)
 

Mortuorum

New member
Oct 20, 2010
381
0
0
Signa said:
I can't speak for the rest of it, but holy shit did the years between 20 and 30 fly. I was about 28 before I realized I was no longer fresh out of high school.
That's true of pretty much any career. I'm working on my third career (and am way past 30) and it still feels at way.

Back OT, part of the problem is that there is a glut of programmers, particularly programmers aspiring to get into game development. Just about every recent graduate with a CS degree has effectively the same skill set. As a result, companies that hire programmers can pretty much dictate the terms of their employment.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

New member
Mar 13, 2012
344
0
0
I don't think I ever really knew what the working conditions were like in AAA gaming, but somewhere along the line I realized it was a bad idea to major specifically in video games, which is why I'm a computer engineering major. The only way I'll work in the video game industry is through the indie channels in my spare time.
 

SecondPrize

New member
Mar 12, 2012
1,436
0
0
I've been wondering if anyone in the gaming press would ever print something like this for a long time. One thing though, your pay does rise with years put in, after a decade it'll rise enough that everyone will want to hire one of the suckers fresh out of school rather than you.
 

rgrekejin

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2011
267
0
21
Signa said:
I can't speak for the rest of it, but holy shit did the years between 20 and 30 fly. I was about 28 before I realized I was no longer fresh out of high school.
Having just turned 27, I know exactly what you mean. Last summer my metabolism fell off a cliff, and I had to come to terms with the fact that I was no longer what the kids would consider "young".

Speaking of "Young", though. I don't know how I've managed to go with long without realizing the Shamus Young here is the same Shamus Young behind the side-splittingly brilliant "DM of the Rings" webcomic. Well done, sir.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

New member
Sep 4, 2009
2,173
0
0
Get a cushy corporate business programming job for the money, or an IT job as a small business for the freedom.

Then make games as a hobby.

Things have only gotten better and better for the hobbyist developers. Just this last week Unreal 4, Unity 5, and Source 2 were announce as being released for free.

These are the same tools the "pros" work with available on your desktop. You won't have the manpower to make World of Warcraft from your basement but making PS2-Level "AAA" games is easily within the range of the do-able.

I've been a "hobbyist" game dev for nearly 3 years now. Haven't made anything substantial yet but learned a lot. Feel free to pm any questions about how to get started.