Solution to Project $10

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Laxman9292

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Feb 6, 2009
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I fully blame Gamestop for this development, by ensuring that no money form used game sales goes to the devs it has forced companies to look for creative (read: frustrating and shitty) alternatives such as project $10.

What needs to happen is for Gamestop to stop being assholes and acknowledge that the developers deserve some of the sale. Just some sort of percentage to appease the companies and this would be all finished.

Thoughts? Alternative solutions? Who do you fault for this shit we're dealing with now?
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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Project $10 doesn't need a solution. It's one of the only good things EA has done since... Well, ever. More companies should be doing Project $10 instead of Online Passes. Rewarding people who buy new by giving them free content is way better than treating them like they bought used too until they prove otherwise by entering the online pass code just to play the base game. With free DLC, if people don't want the DLC, they can just ignore it and still play the entire base game without any code input needed. But making you prove you bought new? So wrong.

So yeah, again I say that Project $10 does not need a solution. In fact, I think it is the solution to this online pass garbage.
 

CulixCupric

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Oct 20, 2011
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once they (devs) sell the game hard copy, it's not their property, hence they can't do that. so, they make it so it can only be a steam download. one user per copy. they're doing it to skyrim, eh well.

solution: don't let them do this, just ignore the company, and just get a game from one that doesn't enforce this.
 

Savagezion

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Low post count but high enough to not look like a dummy account... can't tell if trolling.

This has been covered before many times.
Laxman9292 said:
I fully blame Gamestop for this development,
Yeah, there is always only 1 side to every coin.
by ensuring that no money form used game sales goes to the devs it has forced companies to look for creative (read: frustrating and shitty) alternatives such as project $10.
Forget the fact that publishing companies are pulling in 10s of millions a year despite piracy and used games when only 1/4 of the games made every year are worth a damn in quality. There is the alternative of making better games and not axing highly anticipated cashcow games *cough*Ghostbusters*cough* simply because you can not exploit it through sequels but instead will make a lot of money only one time. But that is poppycock.

What needs to happen is for Gamestop to stop being assholes and acknowledge that the developers deserve some of the sale.
Yeah, who cares if the legal system has already addressed a consumers right to resale anything they have purchased at retail that require no stipulations but payment at the time of purchase. (including licenses.)
Just some sort of percentage to appease the companies and this would be all finished.
Yeah like when a mugger wants all your money everybody wins if you just give him a $20 and not the full $50.

Thoughts? Alternative solutions? Who do you fault for this shit we're dealing with now?
That's is my sarcasm. Sorry, this late in the game of this argument I have to entertain myself. That is how ridiculous I find some of those things. I blame greedy ass publishers. They are pointing a finger at Gamestop, and it is bogus. They are just greedy. They could simply quit being asshats. That's my solution.
 

Treeinthewoods

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May 14, 2010
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I say project 10$ already is an attempt to pass costs onto retailers. Right now I can get a used game for $55 and save money. If I need to pay ten dollars Gamestop will either have to mark down to $45(ish) or sell me a new game. Either one is a win for the developer.

The question is, will Gamestop try to pass prices to consumers with higher used game prices over all or through other means. Also, will enough developers take a similar stance to cause the entire market to shift or will EA just get blocked from specialty retailers like Gamestop until they stop trying to cut the profit margin.

EA is all about putting a shank in retailers. Hell, why do you think they are so bent about Origin?
 

Baldr

The Noble
Jan 6, 2010
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Savagezion said:
Low post count but high enough to not look like a dummy account... can't tell if trolling.

This has been covered before many times.
Laxman9292 said:
I fully blame Gamestop for this development,
Yeah, there is always only 1 side to every coin.
by ensuring that no money form used game sales goes to the devs it has forced companies to look for creative (read: frustrating and shitty) alternatives such as project $10.
Forget the fact that publishing companies are pulling in 10s of millions a year despite piracy and used games when only 1/4 of the games made every year are worth a damn in quality. There is the alternative of making better games and not axing highly anticipated cashcow games *cough*Ghostbusters*cough* simply because you can not exploit it through sequels but instead will make a lot of money only one time. But that is poppycock.

What needs to happen is for Gamestop to stop being assholes and acknowledge that the developers deserve some of the sale.
Yeah, who cares if the legal system has already addressed a consumers right to resale anything they have purchased at retail that require no stipulations but payment at the time of purchase. (including licenses.)
Just some sort of percentage to appease the companies and this would be all finished.
Yeah like when a mugger wants all your money everybody wins if you just give him a $20 and not the full $50.

Thoughts? Alternative solutions? Who do you fault for this shit we're dealing with now?
That's is my sarcasm. Sorry, this late in the game of this argument I have to entertain myself. That is how ridiculous I find some of those things. I blame greedy ass publishers. They are pointing a finger at Gamestop, and it is bogus. They are just greedy. They could simply quit being asshats. That's my solution.
Greedy ass publishers my ass. You have over 75% of your target base that would flat out steal the product given the right opportunity, your best retailer undercutting you by $2-3 just for a double dip in profit stake, and ungrateful customers who whine and ***** about every choice you make and you have to overcharge your loyal customers just to make enough capital to fund your next big game project.
 

jthwilliams

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Sep 10, 2009
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Laxman9292 said:
I fully blame Gamestop for this development, by ensuring that no money form used game sales goes to the devs it has forced companies to look for creative (read: frustrating and shitty) alternatives such as project $10.

What needs to happen is for Gamestop to stop being assholes and acknowledge that the developers deserve some of the sale. Just some sort of percentage to appease the companies and this would be all finished.

Thoughts? Alternative solutions? Who do you fault for this shit we're dealing with now?

I fully blame game publishers, by having a universal no returns policy they have create a system where people find themsleves stuck with games they don't want and with only one way to recover part of their investment.
 

Gmans uncle

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Oct 17, 2011
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I have no sympathy for anyone involved, when something is purchased pre-owned, it's no longer the developer's sale, that wasn't Gamestop's fault, EVERYONE does that, with EVERYTHING, that is how capitalism works. The way I justify buying used is with my argument that all used games where at SOME point purchased by SOMEONE, and that someone chose to trade the game in, that's their right, the developer already has their money, they don't need to be payed twice.

Sorry EA, you're just as much of an evil empire as everyone says, and you should make sure you hold onto Bioware, 'cause if they weren't under your partners program, I would never buy a game from you again.
 

BlindMessiah94

The 94th Blind Messiah
Nov 12, 2009
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Laxman9292 said:
I fully blame Gamestop for this development, by ensuring that no money form used game sales goes to the devs it has forced companies to look for creative (read: frustrating and shitty) alternatives such as project $10.

What needs to happen is for Gamestop to stop being assholes and acknowledge that the developers deserve some of the sale. Just some sort of percentage to appease the companies and this would be all finished.

Thoughts? Alternative solutions? Who do you fault for this shit we're dealing with now?
Man you are going to get eaten alive on this thread by offering no actual arguments and just spouting ad hominems lol.

OT: Why? Used car sales don't give a percentage back to the dealers or makers. Used furniture doesn't give a cent back to IKEA. Used movies and music don't get a percentage. Why would the video game industry be any different? They just seem to be more vocal about it.
Punishing customers for buying used is not the right approach. Things like project $10 which reward consumers is the right approach.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Simple solution: Buy new and never worry about it.

I've never bought used, and never plan to. As long as I'm handing the publishers their money, then they never bother me.
 

TheDooD

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Dec 23, 2010
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Baldr said:
Savagezion said:
Low post count but high enough to not look like a dummy account... can't tell if trolling.

This has been covered before many times.
Laxman9292 said:
I fully blame Gamestop for this development,
Yeah, there is always only 1 side to every coin.
by ensuring that no money form used game sales goes to the devs it has forced companies to look for creative (read: frustrating and shitty) alternatives such as project $10.
Forget the fact that publishing companies are pulling in 10s of millions a year despite piracy and used games when only 1/4 of the games made every year are worth a damn in quality. There is the alternative of making better games and not axing highly anticipated cashcow games *cough*Ghostbusters*cough* simply because you can not exploit it through sequels but instead will make a lot of money only one time. But that is poppycock.

What needs to happen is for Gamestop to stop being assholes and acknowledge that the developers deserve some of the sale.
Yeah, who cares if the legal system has already addressed a consumers right to resale anything they have purchased at retail that require no stipulations but payment at the time of purchase. (including licenses.)
Just some sort of percentage to appease the companies and this would be all finished.
Yeah like when a mugger wants all your money everybody wins if you just give him a $20 and not the full $50.

Thoughts? Alternative solutions? Who do you fault for this shit we're dealing with now?
That's is my sarcasm. Sorry, this late in the game of this argument I have to entertain myself. That is how ridiculous I find some of those things. I blame greedy ass publishers. They are pointing a finger at Gamestop, and it is bogus. They are just greedy. They could simply quit being asshats. That's my solution.
Greedy ass publishers my ass. You have over 75% of your target base that would flat out steal the product given the right opportunity, your best retailer undercutting you by $2-3 just for a double dip in profit stake, and ungrateful customers who whine and ***** about every choice you make and you have to overcharge your loyal customers just to make enough capital to fund your next big game project.
They wouldn't have to overcharge if they had better control the budgets games budgets are costing around the level of movies if not higher. Also Publishers take the biggest cut when games are originally sold. I'm not saying the developers don't deserve that money it just if the publishers wasn't putting so much in their personal pockets they'll have less the ***** about when they just losing chump change. Then when it comes to EA and Activision them losing 1 mil ain't shit compared to what they throw away for AD space for their games.
 

lacktheknack

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Savagezion said:
I blame greedy ass publishers. They are pointing a finger at Gamestop, and it is bogus. They are just greedy. They could simply quit being asshats. That's my solution.
Why should they do a thing for people who buy used games? Because people who buy used aren't doing a thing for them. Asshat meets asshat. Also, if you somehow think it's all about increasing profit, you have no idea how ridiculously expensive games are to make. If big corporations just left the used market alone, many of them would go belly-up right there.
 

Lunar Templar

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i've poked at some of that day 1 DLC in project 10$.
none of it was particularly interesting, for me anyway your mileage may very. most my buys now a days are on steam :p and my used purchases are all pre-project 10$ >:) hehehe

but given how sub par games have been getting lately, proof by just how full Game Stops shelves are, its just natural progression, you can whine about it, which dose nothing or vote with your wallet, which dose little unless you can get enough other people, both in on it and who will stick to it.
 

NerfedFalcon

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mjc0961 said:
So yeah, again I say that Project $10 does not need a solution. In fact, I think it is the solution to this online pass garbage.
Project Ten Dollar is online passes, in case you missed the memo the first time. Not free DLC; online passes.
 

Savagezion

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Baldr said:
Greedy ass publishers my ass. You have over 75% of your target base that would flat out steal the product given the right opportunity, your best retailer undercutting you by $2-3 just for a double dip in profit stake, and ungrateful customers who whine and ***** about every choice you make and you have to overcharge your loyal customers just to make enough capital to fund your next big game project.
Haha, I knew that was gonna grab quotes posting that this early in the thread but, alright we can do this anyways. You don't know that 75% of the target base willing to steal, you are making that shit up. There are no statistics that prove that, only your perception of the consumer market. If anything this economy proves the opposite. Piracy is not hard to do, and anyone with an inkling of will to do it can get a pirated copy of just about any game that has been released in a matter of hours with a decent internet connection. With the economy in the state it is in people are still buying games even though they are aware people pirate games online. However, it is cheaper for them time wise to just buy the game at their local Gamestop than to try to go online and try to learn how to get around something as simple as a CD Key. That proves most won't. Everything the consumer base needs to pirate is out there, pre-hacked, waiting to be downloaded, and people don't do it. Even if you figure torrent downloads as the % of people pirating (a HUGE fallacy) it would only equate to MAYBE 20%.

Your best retailer... again, your best retailer... why the fuck would anyone attack THEIR BEST RETAILER? Gamestop makes more money per year off selling New merchandise than used merchandise. Roughly twice as much. You remember what you said about having to overcharge your loyal customers to make up for the ones that aren't loyal? Welcome to sales, that's how it works - EVERYWHERE.
You know what I love about the used game thing? My FAVORITE part? A couple decades ago, publishers rubbed their hands together and said we won't credit stores for anyone that returns our software if the seal is opened. SO years went by where the consumers was screwed if they had any issue with software they bought. Fast forward "Tah-dah" Gamestop says, I will take them from you and give you some of your money back. They turn a profit and suddenly publishers are like "Hey, that isn't fair."
It's Gamestop's right to double dip in that profit share while publishers were being greedy assholes acting like a returned product is so unreasonably detrimental to their profit margin. What exactly did publishers do for the customer there? Oh, that's right they said "fuck off" when you tried to return an opened game that was advertised to be something more than it was. A practice they still employ today to a lesser degree.

lacktheknack said:
Savagezion said:
I blame greedy ass publishers. They are pointing a finger at Gamestop, and it is bogus. They are just greedy. They could simply quit being asshats. That's my solution.
Why should they do a thing for people who buy used games? Because people who buy used aren't doing a thing for them. Asshat meets asshat. Also, if you somehow think it's all about increasing profit, you have no idea how ridiculously expensive games are to make. If big corporations just left the used market alone, many of them would go belly-up right there.
Oh yeah? which ones? Which big corperations would go belly up if they left used games alone? Are you their accountant? Because I sure as hell have a hard time seeking out their numbers. I even have 2 other guys digging for me that said they could probably get me some actual game development costs and revenue per project that have yet to yield shit back to me. There is a curtain there and we have publishers claiming they are broke but Wallstreet says otherwise. I believe Wallstreet.

As well, I ain't saying do something for people who buy used games. I am saying the opposite - quit worrying about them all together. People who buy solely used games are probably unable to afford new games at all and are bargin bin shopping only thus have a very crappy selection to choose from. People who buy both new and used are probably somewhere in the middle. Then people who buy only new are probably able to afford 8-10+ new games a year. All focusing on used buyers is going to do is either raise piracy rates or drive people out of the gaming hobby. Instead focus on making great games for the loyal customers who buy new and try to bring in some new blood.

As well, quit releasing shit games as I said that only 1/4 of all games released in a year have a good quality effort behind them. Go have a look at Mall Tycoon and tell me that game had a budget and production time over $500K/year. Quit making bullshit games for low budgets just to make a fast buck and realize all that does is flood the industry with high risk on the consumer end.

EDIT: Clarified point: If 3/4 of the games released per year are shovelware that makes consumers more likely to want to buy used in fear that the game might be garbage.
 

Baldr

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Savagezion said:
Baldr said:
Greedy ass publishers my ass. You have over 75% of your target base that would flat out steal the product given the right opportunity, your best retailer undercutting you by $2-3 just for a double dip in profit stake, and ungrateful customers who whine and ***** about every choice you make and you have to overcharge your loyal customers just to make enough capital to fund your next big game project.
Haha, I knew that was gonna grab quotes posting that this early in the thread but, alright we can do this anyways. You don't know that 75% of the target base willing to steal, you are making that shit up. There are no statistics that prove that, only your perception of the consumer market. If anything this economy proves the opposite. Piracy is not hard to do, and anyone with an inkling of will to do it can get a pirated copy of just about any game that has been released in a matter of hours with a decent internet connection. With the economy in the state it is in people are still buying games even though they are aware people pirate games online. However, it is cheaper for them time wise to just buy the game at their local Gamestop than to try to go online and try to learn how to get around something as simple as a CD Key. That proves most won't. Everything the consumer base needs to pirate is out there, pre-hacked, waiting to be downloaded, and people don't do it. Even if you figure torrent downloads as the % of people pirating (a HUGE fallacy) it would only equate to MAYBE 20%.

Your best retailer... again, your best retailer... why the fuck would anyone attack THEIR BEST RETAILER? Gamestop makes more money per year off selling New merchandise than used merchandise. Roughly twice as much. You remember what you said about having to overcharge your loyal customers to make up for the ones that aren't loyal? Welcome to sales, that's how it works - EVERYWHERE.
You know what I love about the used game thing? My FAVORITE part? A couple decades ago, publishers rubbed their hands together and said we won't credit stores for anyone that returns our software if the seal is opened. SO years went by where the consumers was screwed if they had any issue with software they bought. Fast forward "Tah-dah" Gamestop says, I will take them from you and give you some of your money back. They turn a profit and suddenly publishers are like "Hey, that isn't fair."
It's Gamestop's right to double dip in that profit share while publishers were being greedy assholes acting like a returned product is so unreasonably detrimental to their profit margin. What exactly did publishers do for the customer there? Oh, that's right they said "fuck off" when you tried to return an opened game that was advertised to be something more than it was. A practice they still employ today to a lesser degree.

lacktheknack said:
Savagezion said:
I blame greedy ass publishers. They are pointing a finger at Gamestop, and it is bogus. They are just greedy. They could simply quit being asshats. That's my solution.
Why should they do a thing for people who buy used games? Because people who buy used aren't doing a thing for them. Asshat meets asshat. Also, if you somehow think it's all about increasing profit, you have no idea how ridiculously expensive games are to make. If big corporations just left the used market alone, many of them would go belly-up right there.
Oh yeah? which ones? Which big corperations would go belly up if they left used games alone? Are you their accountant? Because I sure as hell have a hard time seeking out their numbers. I even have 2 other guys digging for me that said they could probably get me some actual game development costs and revenue per project that have yet to yield shit back to me. There is a curtain there and we have publishers claiming they are broke but Wallstreet says otherwise. I believe Wallstreet.

As well, I ain't saying do something for people who buy used games. I am saying the opposite - quit worrying about them all together. People who buy solely used games are probably unable to afford new games at all and are bargin bin shopping only thus have a very crappy selection to choose from. People who buy both new and used are probably somewhere in the middle. Then people who buy only new are probably able to afford 8-10+ new games a year. All focusing on used buyers is going to do is either raise piracy rates or drive people out of the gaming hobby. Instead focus on making great games for the loyal customers who buy new and try to bring in some new blood.

As well, quit releasing shit games as I said that only 1/4 of all games released in a year have a good quality effort behind them. Go have a look at Mall Tycoon and tell me that game had a budget and production time over $500K/year. Quit making bullshit games for low budgets just to make a fast buck and realize all that does is flood the industry with high risk on the consumer end.

EDIT: Clarified point: If 3/4 of the games released per year are shovelware that makes consumers more likely to want to buy used in fear that the game might be garbage.
Random Articles on Piracy
http://www.tradearabia.com/news/MEDIA_199246.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20006954-17.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/gaming.gadgets/09/09/video.game.piracy/#fbid=0UUOvAM0_lo&wom=false
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201004190412.html
http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/articles/piracy.shtm

And speaking of cheap DRM-free games, World of Goo had a 90% piracy rate. This statistic is based on the number of sales versus the number of IP addresses that submitted high scores. 2DBoy did do well with the game, but most independents go day to day with sales, it not just big publishers that are effected by piracy.


Game Stop Numbers:
Total Revenue:
2010: $9.47 billion
2009: $9.07 billion
2008: $8.8 billion

In 2010 pre-owned sales made up 26.1% of GameStop's total sales, which would be approximately $2.47 billion.

Sales (in millions) 2010:
New video game hardware $1,720.0
New video game software $3,968.7
Used video game products $2,469.8
Other $1,315.2
-----------------------------------
Total $9,473.7

45% of GameStop's total profits come from pre-owned sales
48% of customers buy pre-owned
19% of customers trade in games
For most titles, 1% of GS customers will represent 25-50%
of unit sales.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6420-gamestop-s-eye-popping-revenues-from-used-game-sales-gme-erts-atvi-thqi

I have no problems with GameStop selling used games, except selling used copy of games that have just been released for $2-5 less than full retail.

And as for the quality of games, well, that just your opinion. Your just a whiner like the rest of them, which proves my point.
 

Savagezion

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Mar 28, 2010
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Hehe, yeah, I guess metacritic and professional game reviewers are whiners too. Giving out all those low scores saying these games are "mediocre" at best, or simply telling you to downright avoid them. Hell, I will even let you have 33% of games released in a year score 7's or higher. That still leaves 67% that are mediocre or garbage. All it takes to have a score of 7 is pretty much technical merit (no bugs) and intuitive controls/GUI. And plenty of games that get 8's and 9's fail in those two regards but are considered to make up for it in others. Hell, even Alpha Protocol scored an average that was around 7, and gamers call that game unplayable. New Vegas was a freakin' 9.

Well, at any rate, "opinions" aside, let's address these links. I was going to go through all of them one at a time explaining why you should be looking at each one as bias opinions/agendas and where their arguments had holes, but then I realized, something of greater need to be addressed was present. Every link you posted was on piracy. Not used games, piracy. That isn't the discussion here and these are NOT the same thing. The ONLY thing these two have in common is that the developers see no money from the transaction so it is no surprise that THEY see them as the same thing. But from every single other aspect of the industry and market these are clear cut, bold faced, black and white not the same thing. They are worlds apart. They only share 1 commonality and even that one is sketchy at best. Because for every case where someone buys a game used, means somebody HAS TO buy one new. So even where they are similar, they are different.

However, I will still gloss over this list that you weren't exaggerating about the random part.
Baldr said:
Random Articles on Piracy
http://www.tradearabia.com/news/MEDIA_199246.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20006954-17.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/gaming.gadgets/09/09/video.game.piracy/#fbid=0UUOvAM0_lo&wom=false
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201004190412.html
http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/articles/piracy.shtm
First Link
Alright, first, considering the source of this, (an Anti-Piracy watchdog group) this needs to be gone into with a nod towards propaganda of one side to a two sided debate. One where both sides have valid studies and criticisms. I can post you just as many links about why piracy is good as you can ones claiming it is the devil. Reputable ones too like judge rulings and statistical studies. This is a slanted article by a watchdog group. But furthermore, the article actually destroys its own point. I will walk you through this one because this is total garbage of an article.

The article says "from a report", which it doesn't point to or link to or say anything else. I know where they are getting that number but guess what? That number is bogus and I will show you why later on in another link.

First link said:
At least 73 per cent of actual global revenue from video gaming is lost every year due to piracy, said a report.

Dubai-based Arabian Anti-Piracy Alliance has highlighted the recent report published by top market research firm AM Mindpower Solutions to urge Internet gamers in the region to fully understand the adverse consequences of illegally downloading video games.
Ok, first off, that doesn't mean 70% of games out there are being pirated or nothing like that. That is a hypothetical number and figure talking about a % of money. It is saying the industry is only making 27% of what the industry is (once again) hypothetically worth.

Move on, blah, blah, blah...

[...]piracy severely threatens the growth of this industry. In a bid to save some money, gaming enthusiasts often illegally download pirated versions of popular video games, without realizing the damage it is causing, both to their PCs and gaming consoles, but at a broader level, to the gaming industry and the economy as well.[...]
Look at it just blowing this up to make it look like some dying industry that is about to go belly up. Oh no! The industry is about to go belly up, right? Oh wait, skip ahead and look at this:
According to a recent report by PricewaterhouseCoopers, the global gaming market is expected to grow from $52.5 billion in 2009 to $86.8 billion in 2014.
Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. So you mean to tell me that with a 73% global revenue LOSS that the game industry is still continuing to become 70% more lucrative over a 5 year span in billions of dollars? How does that confirm that companies in the games industry are at risk?

And suddenly that whole article's point is garbage.

Second link:

Here is where I told you where that hypothetical figure is a crock of crap.
The group, which puts on the annual Tokyo Game Show, calculated the figure by seeing how often Japanese versions of the 20 best-selling games between 2004 and 2009 were pirated. It then multiplied that figure by the manufacturer's suggested retail price of each title.
Fallacy. First, games that don't sell well, don't get pirated much either. (World of Goo is the exception that proves the rule.) So tracking the pirated copies of the top 20 best selling video games is actually a slanted take on trying to represent the entire impact of piracy on the entire gaming industry. Best selling games get pirated more than any other games. Find me a game other than World of Goo (I have a theory as to why that one got such high piracy rates) that had a high piracy rate and didn't make millions of dollars of profit. You can't argue "the WHOLE industry" off the back of 1 circumstance.

So those are going to be some highly pirated games. Then you assume that each torrent is a copy that would have otherwise been sold. Fallacy again. People restore their computer, sometimes they have to restart the download due to bad trackers or even corrupted files. But it doesn't stop there. They then go on to assume those people would have bought the game at full price on its initial release.

That is 3 compounded fallacies to make a purposely extreme high hypothetical figure.

Third link:
Not even sure why you posted this one. It actually claims publishers are being stupid and greedy. See for yourself:
So here's the irony: For game creators, lowering costs and making titles widely available may actually be the solution to stamping out piracy.
People have been saying that all along. I bet if you dropped the price of a new game to 40 bucks, games being bought the week of release would at least double or at most triple. But publishers have been avoiding that no doubt to their marketing team where in sales and marketing dropping your price is the LAST thing you should do. That's why price drops take so long on new titles that sell well and happen quickly on new titles that don't and a second price drop takes even longer.

I would go on but honestly, I just don't care to point out fallacies that appear as common sense. Switching between these tabs has grown annoying enough. In a nutshell, all of those high piracy rates (which is imposible to accurately track anyways) increases the more you get into poorer countries and countries with heavy bans. Surprise, surprise. That doesn't hold weight if you are going to try and apply it to the industry as a whole.

And speaking of cheap DRM-free games, World of Goo had a 90% piracy rate. This statistic is based on the number of sales versus the number of IP addresses that submitted high scores. 2DBoy did do well with the game, but most independents go day to day with sales, it not just big publishers that are effected by piracy.
Well, how about Crytek? Crysis 2 was a highly anticipated game. It got leaked what, a month before release? Crytek simply came out and simply said 'Please, don't pirate our game. There is nothing we can do, just please don't." By release day it had roughly 10,000 downloads nationwide for America. Although, that may have been global. I don't remember, I just remember how cool it was that people didn't. 10K downloads for a highly anticipated game leaked a month early is insane.
As well, you have Stardock who came out and said "We don't use DRM because people are going to pirate our stuff either way. We'll put that money towards the games and hope people respect us for it." They have released many high selling strategy games.

There is 2 cases of DRM being ignored and people respected the company enough to not screw them over. World of Goo has a lot of factors coming in including people suspecting that the 90% piracy rate claim is bogus as too many variables come into play.

Game Stop Numbers:
Total Revenue:
2010: $9.47 billion
2009: $9.07 billion
2008: $8.8 billion

In 2010 pre-owned sales made up 26.1% of GameStop's total sales, which would be approximately $2.47 billion.

Sales (in millions) 2010:
New video game hardware $1,720.0
New video game software $3,968.7
Used video game products $2,469.8
Other $1,315.2
-----------------------------------
Total $9,473.7

45% of GameStop's total profits come from pre-owned sales
48% of customers buy pre-owned
19% of customers trade in games
For most titles, 1% of GS customers will represent 25-50%
of unit sales.
Trust me, I know Gamestop's numbers. I look that shit up in my spare time just to see stuff considering all this crap that is spewing all over the internet it is almost seeping out of my keyboard. Although, I am not following your math.

45% of 9,473.7 = 4,263.165

Used game products + Other = 3785
Plus, let's not forget some of that used game stuff is from previous generation stuff and doesn't effect the market now. Don't forget your potential variables. As well, consoles are included in that. And if you are going to try to add in "Other" you need to make sure you are compensating for strategy guides, keychains, etc.

*Checks link again*
Oh, lol. That article is almost 6 year old. Stay consistent, man! Haha. Yeah, those numbers ain't the same anymore though, they are more around the 30% total gross profit now. Market studies on Gamestop say it is a great business model because when the economy is good, things are great and when the economy is bad, Gamestop's model has a safety net in their used games revenue. But even in your article they are making 60% of their profit from new merchandise. (I can round up too. The real number is 43.X)

I have no problems with GameStop selling used games, except selling used copy of games that have just been released for $2-5 less than full retail.
Would you rather they undercut developers by 10 or 20 bucks and encourage used sales even more? You would then be having people lining up waiting for someone to return it.
 

krazykidd

New member
Mar 22, 2008
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CulixCupric said:
once they (devs) sell the game hard copy, it's not their property, hence they can't do that. so, they make it so it can only be a steam download. one user per copy. they're doing it to skyrim, eh well.

solution: don't let them do this, just ignore the company, and just get a game from one that doesn't enforce this.

WAIIIIIT , what are they doing to skyrim ? One user per copy? Say it ain't so . ( this is a serious question, this might make me not buy skyrim , out of principle )
 

CulixCupric

New member
Oct 20, 2011
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krazykidd said:
CulixCupric said:
once they (devs) sell the game hard copy, it's not their property, hence they can't do that. so, they make it so it can only be a steam download. one user per copy. they're doing it to skyrim, eh well.

solution: don't let them do this, just ignore the company, and just get a game from one that doesn't enforce this.

WAIIIIIT , what are they doing to skyrim ? One user per copy? Say it ain't so . ( this is a serious question, this might make me not buy skyrim , out of principle )
yep, it's a steam exclusive, one account per copy.

look here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.322225-Skyrim-physical-copies-have-no-data-on-the-discs?page=1
 

Atmos Duality

New member
Mar 3, 2010
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CulixCupric said:
once they (devs) sell the game hard copy, it's not their property, hence they can't do that. so, they make it so it can only be a steam download. one user per copy. they're doing it to skyrim, eh well.

solution: don't let them do this, just ignore the company, and just get a game from one that doesn't enforce this.
Legally speaking, the Publisher (more often than the developer, though not always) owns the rights to the game, regardless of what you think of "ownership". (It all has to do with Copyright laws.) The game data IS their property. Not yours. You can use the disc to scan cement, play frisbee, or as a target for a skeet shoot. But the *data* on that disc isn't legally yours.

In practice, the tangible medium of discs and lack of strongly enforceable EULAs* let games slip into the products category and thus, the First Sale Doctrine applies. However, publishers prefer treating them as services (Bnet 2.0, Steam, and Origin all work this way) where possible.
In a service agreement, you don't "own" anything. You simply pay for a license and they agree to provide you with the game for however long is defined in the contract/agreement.

This is why it's important to distinguish between a Service and a Product when dealing with goods that are technically intangible (data, music, etc).

As I see, someone (several, natch) have brought up the Steam-exclusive Skyrim issue.
Meaning: Skyrim will be legally treated like a service, disc or no disc. Fully expect all significant future PC titles to be marketed as services. This legally protects the publisher, and gives them more leverage over their legitimate consumers.

(*putting EULAs up on a website is shaky because one can not assume the customer will visit the website before making the purchase. A contract MUST at least be read by both parties to be legally enforceable, and that's questionable at best in this case.)