Someone please explain this bit from Wonder Woman (Spoilers)

[happyninja42]

Ok so, I've seen the movie twice now, and paid close attention regarding this one little tidbit, and I still just don't get it. I suspect it was something that fell to the cutting room floor, but left the other parts sort of dangling a bit in the wind.

So, in the beginning, on 2 separate occasions, the Queen of the Amazons, comments about the reason she is hesitant to train Diana, is that it will mean Ares will find her quicker. This also apparently includes telling her the fucking truth about what's going on with her. I mean she flat out says "If she knows, he will just find her more quickly." This is said before she leaves the protection of the island (presumably providing protection from Ares seeing/knowing them).

So, then Diana is sent into the world, oblivious to the truth of her own origin, how that plays into what she's supposed to do, and is just expected to...figure it out as she goes along. Really great mothering there.

Anyway, what the fuck is the mom talking about? At no point in the story, do they establish that Diana knowing about her origin will change her in any significant way, and it doesn't protect her from Ares finding her. In his reveal at the end, he fucking SAYS that he knew who she was from the minute he saw her, and contemplated killing her right away. So her ignorance didn't do shit to protect her...at all.

So what the hell was this shit? I mean, it had zero bearing on the story, wasn't resolved in any way later on, and was simply there as if it was to just hint at "Epic Foreshadowing" for the audience, and nothing else. It makes her mother, the Queen, look like an idiot, and undermines her entire reason for keeping her in the dark. If they'd just stuck with "I love her so much, and am mortally terrified of her being forced to fight a god of war, that I irrationally try to over-protect her" I would've been fine with it. That would've made sense. It's like they tried to make her not be like every Disney parent (I'm looking at you Moana's dad), by giving her this other reason, but the reason was total bullshit, and makes her look stupid.

So yeah, wtf is up with this? Because based on just the material presented in the film, this entire premise is just stupid and pointless.

 

[Zhukov]

If I understand your question correctly Diana's mum kept quiet because she knew if she told Diana the truth then Diana would immediately want to charge off to kick Ares' shit in. So Ares would have found her more quickly on account of her charging about the place looking for him.

But yeah, logically she should have spoken up once Diana had made it clear she was heading out regardless. Would have been useful information. She doesn't just because that wouldn't have been good dramatic timing.

 

[happyninja42]

If I understand your question correctly Diana's mum kept quiet because she knew if she told Diana the truth then Diana would immediately want to charge off to kick Ares' shit in. So Ares would have found her more quickly on account of her charging about the place looking for him.

But yeah, logically she should have spoken up once Diana had made it clear she was heading out regardless. Would have been useful information. She doesn't just because that wouldn't have been good dramatic timing.

But directly charging off to go kick Ares' ass is exactly what she did anyway. I mean, knowing that it was her that could kill Ares, and not the sword (and whatever else was hidden from her), doesn't change that she:

A: Didn't know what Ares looked like.
B: Didn't know where Ares was.
C: Figured he'd be at the heart of the war anyway, and that's where she went in the first place.

Plus, it wasn't just telling her the truth, it was also the excuse her mom used on why she wouldn't train her. Implying that her having epic combat prowess would somehow show up on Ares' radar? Like a heat signature or something? "Whoa, there is someone with a power level over 9000 over there, must be one of the Amazon's that dad made to try and kill me." But again, nothing like that is presented in the film.

So it still baffles me on why it was even there. xD

 

[Xprimentyl]

Lordy, the niggling details people pick up on in these popcorn-pedaling Summer Blockbusters. That?s not a criticism; I applaud your attention to detail in the face of all the glitz, glam and explosions used to ensure the average viewer doesn?t see the strings; I just don?t get it. Hopefully you can still say you enjoyed the movie despite that dangling thread? I know I did even after learning what you?ve you pointed it out; hell, they could have changed the actress portraying Wonder Woman every 5 minutes and I probably wouldn?t have caught it! XD. When it comes to movies like that, I don?t expect ?sense? to permeate every single detail; give me a reasonably interesting, high-level story with a hero, a quest, a handful of explosions and a dozen fight scenes all tied together with some believable CGI, and I?m generally a happy camper. But something serious like a drama or anything primarily story-driven, then yeah, I expect the details to be buttoned up; if the story doesn?t make sense, then there?s nothing of worth there. I try to adjust my level of expectation to whatever the film is selling. It?s the difference between fine dining and fast food: don?t eat McDonalds expecting Ruth Chris standards, and don?t be disappointed when your $45 Ruth Chris steak doesn?t come with a toy.

 

[happyninja42]

Yes I enjoyed the film, it didn't make me flip any tables and say the movie sucked. My only issue is that everything else seemed to hang together very well, as far as motivations for the characters. But they took time, on two separate occasions, to very clearly, and distinctly bring attention to this point. I mean, they paused everything else, had the Queen's face take up the entire screen, and lingered on it for several seconds. That is the visual storytelling equivalent of hanging a huge neon sign over it saying "THIS IS IMPORTANT! REMEMBER IT FOR LATER!" And so I did, expecting some kind of reveal about how her power resonates outward into the world, and other gods can feel it. I expected some kind of Highlander *tingle* type thing, when two of them get close to each other, sensing the other is close. ANYTHING that addresses the point brought up twice. But they never do. That's not nitpicking, that's expecting a payoff on something that is planted by the film.

But then they don't. It is never actually addressed in the story, and the entire reason for it (To keep Ares in the dark), completely fails, as he knew who she was from the moment he met her (which was pretty much the first day she set foot on English soil).

I still enjoyed the film, a great deal. I can enjoy a film, even if it's not perfect (which none of them are). But this very specific plot hole, was something that I just can't make sense of. Hence why I'm outsourcing the discussion of it. Perhaps someone who has read up on every bit of production details about the film, browsed every forum and interview, etc, knew why this was.

Or it was just a shitty bit of editing/writing that left this point adrift in a story that never pays it any attention.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Or it was just a shitty bit of editing/writing that left this point adrift in a story that never pays it any attention.

Were I a gambling man, I?d say this. Not necessarily shitty writing; I?d say more thoughtless. Writers might not have expected an audience to hang that much importance to the particulars of a sentence that was to serve little more than to further put both Diana and Ares on pedestals of unique power and importance.

Addressing your former option though (that production notes might explain the gap,) not sure where you stood (if anywhere) on the ?death of the author? thread we had in here several months ago, but would you be satisfied if a small detail in production notes or an interview with the writers now after the theatrical release fixed this or would you call it a cop out, a cheap way to take creative privileges and throw Band-Aid on broken leg?

 

[happyninja42]

If someone said "yeah, this was a sub-plot that ended up being cut, and we just didn't reshoot the two scenes in question that referenced it, because we had moved away from the tropical island set, and it would be too expensive to fly back there for two small scenes" then that would be fine. Like when JJ Abrams said "Yeah, I fucked up when I had Chewie just walk past Leia, instead of hugging her, as they share the grief over losing Han Solo." At least someone acknowledged the inconsistency.


I understand that it's not a perfect process, I'm not saying "OMG THE MOVIE SUCKS BECAUSE OF THIS!!", I'm trying to make sense of it. In case there was a bit in the film that actually addressed this, that I overlooked. But as far as I can tell, it doesn't. So now I wonder "ok was this some vague reference to something from the 50+ years of comic books that I don't get? Or is it just something that didn't edit well once the film was released?"

And I disagree with your statement that they didn't think we would take importance from their statement, when they themselves put emphasis on the point, twice. I mean, this wasn't some casual comment made in the middle of some Joss Whedon-esque group banter session, with quips flying back and forth. This was the only thing being discussed. Every other thing was removed from the film, except the face of the person saying this, emphasizing the importance of what's being said. They brought attention and emphasis to it with how they framed and structured the delivery of it.

 

[Mike Richards]

I took it as some kind of comment on her Demigod nature, something along the lines of the more she adopts the role the easier another God could notice. Considering Ares considers himself the God of Truth not War and as I understand it Diana has classically spent more than a bit of time in both roles there's certainly some overlap in their respective spheres of influence that might allow a more experienced deity to hone in on her signal as it were.

Not to mention that Hippolyta was concerned about training her, was subsequently convinced to train her anyways, and then she went off to find Ares. If that had played out to Hippolyta's original wishes she might have been unrecognizable to Ares, at least at first, if she event went looking for him at all. If anything it kind of validates her concerns. She doesn't want it to happen, it happens, and boom goes the dynamite, Ares knows exactly who she is. We don't really have a control group to test against.

 

[American Fox]

There are so many dumb parts in this movie. If the sword was so important and seen by her as the only thing that could kill Ares, why the fuck would she hand it off to some random person to hold for a few hours. You shouldn't let that thing out of your sight when your target for it is an immortal shape changer.

Why the hell would you not train your kid to fight? People training and competing is all she sees, a kid is just going to want to play and do everything everyone else is doing. you might as well lock her in a tower and not let her see the big training camp paradise everyone is having fun in. All she says to her her whole childhood is 'You can't do anything you see everyone else is doing. Even all the other kids.'

I did love her speeches about protecting others and heroism, though.

 

[Neverhoodian]

And here I was hoping the question was why Steve showed up at Themascura flying an early war Fokker Eindecker in 1918, whereupon I could smugly assert my historical prowess by pointing out he stole it from the Ottomans, whose air squadrons consisted mainly of obsolete secondhand German aircraft.

To be honest, I wasn't paying super-close attention to the particulars as to how and why Diana needed to be sheltered. Gal Gadot can be rather...distracting for a heterosexual male like myself.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

They said that she was a "godkiller", a weapon made by Zeus to use against Ares.
Ares wanted to have that weapon for himself, that's why he tried to gain her trust throughout the movie and to get her on his side.
The Amazons didn't want that to happen so they kept her on the island.

That's what I got from it.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Chalk it up to bad writing. There was literally not a single reason to withhold that bit of information from Diana. In fact, it may have helped her. At the very least she'd know that her sword was mere window dressing. I'd assumed the entire time that Ares was her father, and that's what Hippolyta didn't want to tell her.

As for the bit with not wanting to train her, I'd just assumed that was a mother making excuses in a desprate attempt to protect her daughter from fighting against the other god killer. The sooner Diana was properly trained, the sooner she'd leave the island in pursuit of Ares. I'd chalk that "find her more quickly" bit to bad writing as well.

They said that she was a "godkiller", a weapon made by Zeus to use against Ares.
Ares wanted to have that weapon for himself, that's why he tried to gain her trust throughout the movie and to get her on his side.
The Amazons didn't want that to happen so they kept her on the island.

That's what I got from it.

Wasn't she the God Killer because only a god can kill another god? She's (probably) the biological child of Zeus and the only god left aside from Ares.

 

[Hawki]

Finally got round to seeing the film, and I'm wondering the same thing. Also wanted to ask something else...

What exactly is Ares's plan? To wipe out humanity? Yeah, okay, but if only a god can kill a god, what's to stop him from doing the dirty work himself? Did he only gain corporeal form because of WWI, whereas prior to that, he needed to plant information in people's minds to develop weapons in the hope that they'd wipe themselves out? His plan to "I'm going to push for peace, so that people like Ludendorf will be more desparate?" I mean, what? I'm not even sure why he needs Diana at this point, because logistics-wise, the gas is on the verge of deployment, and raw power wise, he can wipe out anyone himself.

Also, it makes a point of illustrating that people aren't under Ares's control...and then seems to suggest that they were under his control when the German soldiers come to at the end. I mean, Ludendorf isn't Ares, but it seems to be suggesting that "people do bad things by themselves...also, Ares was controlling the Germans."

I will say it's probably the best DCEU film so far, but it's still an average film at best. Enjoyable, very good in some areas, very lacking in others.

Edit: Also, when was Diana born? If she ages at a normal rate up to a certain point, did that mean Zeus and her mother banged only a few decades ago? So, does that mean the Amazons rebelled only a few decades ago, or that the Amazons rebelled in humanity's pre-history, and only millennia later Diana is born? Does that mean Amazons effectively stop ageing?

 

[Cicada 5]

Finally got round to seeing the film, and I'm wondering the same thing. Also wanted to ask something else...

What exactly is Ares's plan? To wipe out humanity? Yeah, okay, but if only a god can kill a god, what's to stop him from doing the dirty work himself? Did he only gain corporeal form because of WWI, whereas prior to that, he needed to plant information in people's minds to develop weapons in the hope that they'd wipe themselves out? His plan to "I'm going to push for peace, so that people like Ludendorf will be more desparate?" I mean, what? I'm not even sure why he needs Diana at this point, because logistics-wise, the gas is on the verge of deployment, and raw power wise, he can wipe out anyone himself.

Also, it makes a point of illustrating that people aren't under Ares's control...and then seems to suggest that they were under his control when the German soldiers come to at the end. I mean, Ludendorf isn't Ares, but it seems to be suggesting that "people do bad things by themselves...also, Ares was controlling the Germans."

I will say it's probably the best DCEU film so far, but it's still an average film at best. Enjoyable, very good in some areas, very lacking in others.

Edit: Also, when was Diana born? If she ages at a normal rate up to a certain point, did that mean Zeus and her mother banged only a few decades ago? So, does that mean the Amazons rebelled only a few decades ago, or that the Amazons rebelled in humanity's pre-history, and only millennia later Diana is born? Does that mean Amazons effectively stop ageing?

Ares states that his fight with Zeus left him too weak to destroy humanity himself. Even at the end he may not be at full power.

As for the Germans, we see that not all of them liek the war and just want it to end. In fact, in real life, many German soldiers and a segment of the German Navy actually mutinied.

The last bit, I can't answer. Honestly, they should have just stuck with the clay origin for this film.

 

[Hawki]

As for the Germans, we see that not all of them liek the war and just want it to end. In fact, in real life, many German soldiers and a segment of the German Navy actually mutinied.

Yes, I know that, and the film shows it, I'm referring to the bit at the very end.

On one hand, Diana kills Ludendorf, nothing happens - the Germans keep loading the gas cylinders. After she kills the actual Ares though, the camera pans in on some of the German soldiers' faces, not only showing how young some of them are (which is a poignent touch), but also the look on their faces looks like they've just come out of a trance. Likewise, the soldiers seem quite happy to mill around and not do anything to apprehend the commandos that just broke into their base. So, that specific moment does seem to suggest that Ares was responsible for their actions on some level.

Is that the film's intention? Probably not. But taking the shots by themselves, it does seem to be what they're going for in that particular moment.

 

[Cicada 5]

As for the Germans, we see that not all of them liek the war and just want it to end. In fact, in real life, many German soldiers and a segment of the German Navy actually mutinied.

Yes, I know that, and the film shows it, I'm referring to the bit at the very end.

On one hand, Diana kills Ludendorf, nothing happens - the Germans keep loading the gas cylinders. After she kills the actual Ares though, the camera pans in on some of the German soldiers' faces, not only showing how young some of them are (which is a poignent touch), but also the look on their faces looks like they've just come out of a trance. Likewise, the soldiers seem quite happy to mill around and not do anything to apprehend the commandos that just broke into their base. So, that specific moment does seem to suggest that Ares was responsible for their actions on some level.

Is that the film's intention? Probably not. But taking the shots by themselves, it does seem to be what they're going for in that particular moment.

I guess I see your point. But Ares dying wasn't the only thing that happened though. Remember Steve destroying the plane and the weapons on board it? That is likely to be more what caused them to stop. If it looks like they came out of a trance, I imagine that was due to the realization they could finally stop the fighting. They'd also just witnessed two no-BS gods fighting it out for the fate of humanity. After seeing everything they've seen and after having nothing left to fight for, it makes perfect sense that they would just decide to be grateful that they were alive and put down their weapons.

Perhaps the way the scene was edited could have been done better.