Something doesn't add up about the console industry

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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First of all, who are you? I didn't know you had a reputation for anything.
Second of all, the console industry is not going to crash because people keep buying into things like Day 1 DLC, Season Passes, Micro-trasactions, etc. etc. If people stopped buying games that used these things, the Publishers would stop doing them. (presumably)
 

Andy Shandy

Fucked if I know
Jun 7, 2010
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I blame PCs for all the ridiculous DLC that publishers get away with. I mean the glorious console master race would never stand for one game having $2000 of DLC like Train Simulator does [http://kotaku.com/to-buy-all-of-this-games-dlc-youll-need-over-2-000-1412153921]. What a bunch of idiots those PC guys are, right guys?

[sub]Seriously though, I have no idea how this would be either console users or PC users fault exclusively, considering all this shit you've mentioned is prevalent on all platforms[/sub]
 

MysticSlayer

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canadamus_prime said:
First of all, who are you? I didn't know you had a reputation for anything.
The guy has made numerous threads designed around predicting the death of consoles. A lot of them have to do with some rise of the mobile industry making consoles obsolete.

Fonejackerjon said:
Day 1 DLC, Season passes, micro-transactions those are the acts of a desperate industry on its last legs, those are the desperate actions of a consoles industry on the verge of dying, but they are not, so why in gods name are publishers resorting to such extreme measures to basically almost put the console industry out of business.

Its almost like they want a console crash but why? they know this shit isn't sustainable so why do they keep doing it? when consoles are selling so well, please someone tell me. I know console owners will take alot of shit and keep taking it but I'm sure they wont for much longer.
These really aren't the signs of an industry trying to crash the console market. It's an attempt to make up for development costs rising while game prices effectively diminish [http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time/]. While we have seen a massive increase in the number of gamers over the last few years, relying on it to continue to increase isn't viable, and there will come a point where developers have to consider how they will compensate for rising development costs, and the fact that they've even been willing to drop ideas that players don't like [http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ea-dropping-online-passes-report/1100-6408426/] sort of shows that they are more interested in finding ways to make up for costs that players actually like or can tolerate. I mean, Steam, which is a well-loved service, essentially showed that DRM isn't all bad if you do it right, so who's to say that Season Passes and microtransactions can't work if done right?

Also, let's not even begin to act like these are console-specific issues. PC games still have to deal with things like Season Passes and microtransactions, and the mobile industry is arguably the worst when it comes to microtransactions. So if we're saying that this is an attempt to crash the console industry, then we should also say that they are trying to crash the PC and mobile industry, and combined with the completely ludicrousness of the idea that they are trying to crash the very industry that they rely on to make a living, I seriously doubt you're willing to extend your arguments to include the mobile industry despite the fact that your argument does extend to that industry as well.

I have said it before and I'll say it again $60 plus DLC plus micro-transactions does not make sense in 2014 when you can get so much free entertainment online
If I find the next Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Call of Duty, or Assassin's Creed to be worth $60 while still paying for the occasional add-on, then I'll get it. Most of those games can offer hundreds of hours of entertainment if they are good, and if there is one thing that the AAA industry is good at, it is providing games with a scale that you just can't get for a $15, or even a free, indie game. Yeah, people can point out those few examples of indie games that offered dozens to hundreds of hours of entertainment, and I can even think of a few that offered enough hours of engagement on the same level as the AAA games, but until free games can offer the same level of flash and scale offered in AAA games, there will continue to be a reason to pick up AAA games for $30-60.
 

V da Mighty Taco

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Fonejackerjon said:
Look, I know I have a reputation about hating consoles but can someone explain to me what is going on with game publishers.

The Ps4 is selling extremely well 10 million units already kudos Sony, I'm sure the Xbox is doing ok not quite as well but probably ok so why are game publishers pushing and pushing and pushing to such extreme measures??

Day 1 DLC, Season passes, micro-transactions those are the acts of a desperate industry on its last legs, those are the desperate actions of a consoles industry on the verge of dying, but they are not, so why in gods name are publishers resorting to such extreme measures to basically almost put the console industry out of business.

Its almost like they want a console crash but why? they know this shit isn't sustainable so why do they keep doing it? when consoles are selling so well, please someone tell me. I know console owners will take alot of shit and keep taking it but I'm sure they wont for much longer.

I have said it before and I'll say it again $60 plus DLC plus micro-transactions does not make sense in 2014 when you can get so much free entertainment online, no the mobile industry wont kill the consoles industry the console industry's backwards thinking will kill the console industry but it seems so unnecessary when console sales are booming what the hell are they so afraid off?
Simply put, it's because the bolded section of your quote is wrong. Those trends aren't acts of desperation, but blatant greed. Regardless of the state of the industry, the people running most AAA gaming companies would bounce on absolutely anything that they believe would increase profits, so long as they thought they could successfully get away with it (which they have). Remember that most of the higher ups in a AAA publisher are not gamers, but businessmen. They prioritize profits (often short term) above all else.

Btw, I'm not saying that the AAA gaming industry isn't on the verge of dying - it might very well be, considering how sales in the millions can still result in a financial flop. All I'm saying is that these companies would pull the same crap regardless of if they were dying or not.
 

II2

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Mar 13, 2010
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There are a great variety of factors that come together to push an industry in a given direction, some of which can be spoken on at quite a length, by themselves.

To simply though, picture the Triple A console industry as a large animal, one that's been consistently growing and growing and eating more and more. The larger it gets, the more it needs to eat to survive. For a good while, food was plentiful and it gorged and gorged and never expected there not to be enough, no matter how big it got or how hungry it was. By the time it saw it was there wasn't enough it could eat - but it was too big to stop - it started spending it's energy in maladaptive ways, poisoning the the bed in which it's food would grow, as a solution to making the dirt edible, for a time.

The parable of the beast, thus described, is a bit silly, but it basically communicates the nature of the 'hands free' unchecked growth of business and the futility of mega blockbuster rockstardom maintenance to compensate for of the inevitable diminishing returns.

You can grow to big to survive.

I'm not worried about a full tilt industry reboot like in 82; it's gotten to diversified and ubiquitous to stop. People want games, ergo, someone will step up to make em. If you look at the old hand talent breaking away from the larger merged business giants, you can sorta see where things are headed. Ken Levine. John Carmack. Chris Roberts. Tim Schaeffer. These kinds of creators, ironically, can't work well in the high money, risk averse triple A industries...

I don't know what the signs mean; where it's all headed. Just that there will be much in flux on all levels, to the delight and despair of the consumers and creators alike.
 

Olrod

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Feb 11, 2010
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Fonejackerjon said:
Look, I know I have a reputation about hating consoles but can someone explain to me what is going on with game publishers.

The Ps4 is selling extremely well 10 million units already kudos Sony, I'm sure the Xbox is doing ok not quite as well but probably ok so why are game publishers pushing and pushing and pushing to such extreme measures??

Day 1 DLC, Season passes, micro-transactions those are the acts of a desperate industry on its last legs, those are the desperate actions of a consoles industry on the verge of dying, but they are not, so why in gods name are publishers resorting to such extreme measures to basically almost put the console industry out of business.

Its almost like they want a console crash but why? they know this shit isn't sustainable so why do they keep doing it? when consoles are selling so well, please someone tell me. I know console owners will take alot of shit and keep taking it but I'm sure they wont for much longer.

I have said it before and I'll say it again $60 plus DLC plus micro-transactions does not make sense in 2014 when you can get so much free entertainment online, no the mobile industry wont kill the consoles industry the console industry's backwards thinking will kill the console industry but it seems so unnecessary when console sales are booming what the hell are they so afraid off?
Because we've let them get away with it in the past.

That's why.

We taught the games companies that it's okay and acceptable to nickel-and-dime us like the glorious cash cows that we are.
 

Nimzabaat

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Feb 1, 2010
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Fonejackerjon said:
Ok, so when do you think console and PC gamers are going to say 'enough is enough' or, as I suspected core gamers are getting too stupid to do this?
You should consider that there is a large demographic on the other side of the pay wall. Now generally we don't ever hear from them because they have lives and don't spend time on sites like this. They do exist though and they are willing to pay for things that might seem silly to us just because the math breaks down differently on the other side. Game developers know this and it's basically a PR thing to cater to the two sides.

Also, I don't believe that you should dismiss these people with more disposable income than you can imagine as "stupid". Just a thought.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Fonejackerjon said:
Day 1 DLC, Season passes, micro-transactions those are the acts of a desperate industry on its last legs, those are the desperate actions of a consoles industry on the verge of dying, but they are not, so why in gods name are publishers resorting to such extreme measures to basically almost put the console industry out of business.
You know that stuff is on PC as well right?
 

Snotnarok

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Nov 17, 2008
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Like everyone said, they get away with it
Xbox Live and PS+ are these insane little devious ways to grab more money with features others take for granted.
Demos? Voice chat? These are free services you can get on even a tablet with like skype or something. To play online? This is what REALLY gets me, many games are locally hosted. CoD, Borderlands, Gears of War? They're hosted, on one of the players console, not a server. Sometimes there's a server involved with keeping track of something but 99% of the load is on someones console...so what are you paying them for?

The weirdest excuse I hear is 'you get free games' no, you get games because you pay a subscription for it because when you stop paying you lose said games acquired.

These are games that I've been told are great deals but I've gotten cheaper added together on [platform]. So I'm not sure why that's supported.

This is what confuses me truthfully.
Game comes out $60, DLC comes out $60+ total. Thank you early adopters for spending all that cash.
Late adopters: $60 bucks for everything.
No deals for early adopters? Bought it early get 5 bucks off or something? No just thank you for being gullible?
 

Continuity

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Fonejackerjon said:
Day 1 DLC, Season passes, micro-transactions those are the acts of a desperate industry on its last legs, those are the desperate actions of a consoles industry on the verge of dying, but they are not, so why in gods name are publishers resorting to such extreme measures to basically almost put the console industry out of business.
Its not about desperation it's about capitalism, these companies are large publicly listed profit vehicles, their primary and overriding purpose is to generate profit by any legal means. If micro transactions and DLC are commercially viable then that is exactly what they will do, they don't even really have a choice, and the only thing the will change this is if that situation changes i.e. if it can be seen that micro transactions etc damage their business or don't generate enough revenue to be worth while - and that just isn't something were seeing.

All we can do, on an individual basis, is vote with our wallets.
 

rob_simple

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Aug 8, 2010
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Because enough is never enough. Because these companies aren't run by gamers but marketers and businessmen whose only expertise is making money, they don't care about how damaging their actions could be in the long-term so long as it means making more money in the now.

That being said, these things can really only last as long as they are profitable. I don't want to blame the consumer,but someone out there is paying for DLC and micro-transactions, because if they weren't there wouldn't be so much of the insidious shite.

Then again, if that's how they wanna fritter away their disposable income then that's up to them, personally I'd rather spend the fifteen quid a CoD map pack costs to buy two or three full games on Steam, but that's just me.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Has ye not heards of moneys? Peoples loves their moneys. Aaaannd unfortunately there are a majority who dont care enough about gaming to see it as a problem. The casuals. The COD kids who ween money out their parents who also may not care for the industry. There will always be people lapping from the tainted milk bowl of EAeerrr i mean greedy game publishers. Consider voting with your wallet as effective as voting in an election; no matter how often you choose the wisest option, the majority of fuckwits will outdo us all!
 

carnex

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Jan 9, 2008
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Consoles are here to stay in one form or another. There is a huge benefit in universality of looks and control, ease of use, being sure that content will work etc.

Then again. DLC is not console thing. Expansions are precursors of DLC in today's form and PC actually has more forms of DLC than consoles. Microtransacrions? Remember Oblivion horse armor controversy? Not to mention F2P model is microtransactions in it's core. PC is not king of microtransactions, mobile is, but PC stomps looks at consoles from unattainable heights of amount of citrotransactions it does have compared to big 3 consoles.

PC gamers are going to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH? I find it hard to believe so. People adore Steam which has a goal to turn PC nto console when PC's major advantage over consoles was that it was POLAR OPPOSITE to console!

But seriously, people pay therefor makers offer. It will not stop until people stop purchasing.
 

Tsun Tzu

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*Reads thread title*

YEAH, THEIR PROFIT MARGINS! HAR!





I don't even think that makes sense. Whatever. Ahem.

Honestly, that's probably the root cause. R and D isn't cheap and these guys are losing money hand over fist on each console they sell. They have to make up that money somewhere, I guess. And what better way than to bend consumers over!? Huh!? That's right, there isn't one. Ha.
 

communist gamer

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carnex said:
PC gamers are going to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH? I find it hard to believe so. People adore Steam which has a goal to turn PC nto console when PC's major advantage over consoles was that it was POLAR OPPOSITE to console!

But seriously, people pay therefor makers offer. It will not stop until people stop purchasing.

Wait wut? How is steam making PC more like consoles, last time i checked sony and Xbox are desperately trying to make their consoles into a PC and to buck up my point i redirect you to anything that yhatzee says about the new generation or the fact that the consoles are pushed into on-line play which has always been a PC gimmick and everyone like it that way. Steam is not making the PC a multi-player platform that allows you to play with your friends on the couch, it just makes game easier to play and easier to store (you quickly run out of shelve place when you buy CD-copies, especially if you are someone like me and live in a small place with a lot of books) In fact it was thanks to steam that Indie games that are now a big part of PC-gaming got the attention they needed. Please explain because im confused.
 

Fonejackerjon

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Look I'm Sorry but Console gaming is FAR worse than mobile gaming when it comes to open wallet rape! It really annoys me that people think mobile is the evil of the gaming industry, fact is FREE TO PLAY on mobile allows free entry, as in you don't pay ANYTHING up front to play the game. Consoles on the other hand expect willing idiots to pay $60 up front then DLC and THEN micro-transactions.

If your willing to grind and have patience you can play a mobile game to the bitter end without spending a penny yes, it may take ages but at least you have the option. Console gaming offers none of this. They only offer PAY NOW and pay later.

Consoles are far worse than mobile when it comes to nickel and diming the player and its about time people woke up to that fact.

Look, I'm a realist both the mobile industry and console industry have their evil little ways. But if I had to choose which one screws the consumer over most? console would get that crown because you have to pay upfront!
 

Shadow-Phoenix

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Fonejackerjon said:
Look, I'm a realist both the mobile industry and console industry have their evil little ways. But if I had to choose which one screws the consumer over most? console would get that crown because you have to pay upfront!
Are you very 100% sure about that realist part because I'm not sure if I can take that part let alone the rest seriously, yes in your other thread you had pointed out your rep and yes I've been aware of that for some time but the realist part doesn't fit in my eyes because well your rep tells the whole story and blows the realist part well out the way.

Also we have to pay upfront for PC games and handhelds too, I've seen both those areas charge for full price numerous times, aren't you going to be a "realist" and include them too?, that is if you're trying to be honest and "fair" about this whole thing.

Unless of course this is going to devolve into another mobile is less evil but will one day kill the evil scummy consoles! discussion because I don't want to be sold on any of that, I've already seen the full show.
 

someonehairy-ish

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Because they don't have the self awareness to realise that they're shooting themselves in the feet? And because they're blinded by the need to possess all of the money.