Something that outright baffles me...

[Archemetis]

I recently clapped eyes on a 'is this really aimed at teens' thread and thought about something long and hard (not a penis).

About, what other kind of things have been aimed at kids as well as adults.

As you might have guessed, the thing I'm referring to, is the Dead Space 2 'Your Mum will HATE this game!' Campaign.

Now, I've already expressed my opinion in the thread about that and I'm of the mind that while, yes Dead Space 2 is aimed at the mature gamer the ad suggests that it wants younger gamers to enjoy it too, regardless of what their mothers think.

Because what 18-20something year old really gives a shit about what their mum thinks about something?

That however is not what I'm getting at.

I'm wondering, when did mothers start to care so damn much?

Now I'm only going to be talking from personal experiences from my childhood. So maybe some of you will have different opinions on this.

But back in my day, which was only the late 80's and early 90's Mature things being aimed at kids was fine and dandy.

Some examples:

Jurassic Park

Granted, it's a PG but you have to admit there was some pretty gruesome stuff that even today stands up to the test of time.
From my perspective, I was a 5 year old boy going to see this in the front row of a cinema.
We could argue till the cows get eaten about whether I should have been horrified, but I wasn't and I came out of it with no significant mental scarring.

In fact a few days later I got the toy set. I had a giant T-Rex that made roaring noises, I had a car, I had a Jeff Goldblum action figure... The works.

Above all that, my parents were fine with it.

Moving to my next example;

Terminator

Granted, being born in the late eighties I wasn't exactly old enough or even born enough to see this in the cinema, this however did not prevent my parents from letting me watch it on VHS.

I'm not even sure how, but I even had toys, I can only assume that I got them around the time the 2nd Terminator came out, but they had toys.

An 18 rated film... Had toys

Now sure, I'm aware that games like Dead Space, or Dead Rising, hell Gears and God of War also had toys, but they're mostly collectables...

When I was young the Terminator Films had honest to Goodness, children's toys.

I couldn't have been much older than when I saw Jurassic Park and there I was playing out the adventures of a T-101 and a giant T-Rex...

Now my Final exmaple...

RoboCop


Made in 1987 I was only slightly more likely to see this, one... Being -1 year old.
This being yet another 18 rated film I shouldn't have seen due to the rating and the fact I was born a YEAR after it was released, but somehow that didn't stop me, because yet again my parents saved the day with VHS and action figures...

That's right, yet again something that was in no way marketed to kids had a toy line.

Hell I remember having more than three unique RoboCop toys...

Again this might be because RoboCop hailed a lot of sequels, but seriously?

A film that couldn't go 15 minutes without shooting off a man's hand not to mention coke labs, guys getting their dick shot off, nuclear war, guys being soaked in chemicals until they're nothing more then a fleshy sack of water waiting to get splattered on someone's car...

This is not something that screams 'TOY LINE!' at me...


Not mention that all three of these films also had videogames made about them...(ok, admittedly they were tame compared the films)


I think what I'm ultimately getting to here is that back in a time not that far away, even mature films in some way were aimed at kids and no one seemed to bat an eyelid.

Parents were more than happy to let their young'uns sit and watch a man get chewed in half by a T-Rex, watch liquid metal impale a milk carton through a woman's spine or even watch the hero gain his powers by having just about every part of him brutally taken off by a group of 5-6 cocaine addicts using only guns.

Hell they even bought us the toys, so that we could either re-enact our favourite scenes or use our imaginations to create whole new ones.

But nowadays parents get scared that their kids will become terrorists if they so much as breathe next to a mainstream game...

What changed and why did it have to change?

I just named three interactive experiences I had when I was five years old.
and they all involved watching real people have parts of their body getting, ripped severed or otherwise blown off.

And then being given toys to re-live it in my imagination...

Compared to that, what is it about gaming that makes people think it's a serious threat to young children as an interactive experience?

Your thoughts please.

I'm gonna lay a disclaimer here, not because I've seen people complain about it or because I feel I've offended anyone, but because I feel it needs to be said.

Any young teen that happens to read the first part and thinks I'm maybe saying that teenagers are either:

a) Immature

or.

b) only likely to buy a game if their parents hate it, or the other way round, maybe they'd only buy if their parents were ok with it, who knows, I'm not judging.

I think if it appeals to a younger audience, which it certainly looks like it was trying to, and anyone of that paerticular audience enjoys it and liked the ad campaign, then that's fair enough.
I respect that.

It all just sparked off some thoughts I needed to get out for me.

Thank you very much.

Continue with your opinions and stories.

- Archemetis.

 

[Valagetti]

I think your parents always cared the same amount, just your Point of view has changed somehwow.

 

[Irridium]

Yeah, it is really ridiculous. And that Terminator example you mention is hilarious, because the Terminator himself is one of the people pushing the censorship of violent games for children Supreme Court law.

Anyway, what people are saying is its because games are "interactive". Which is about as factual as Heavy Metal getting kids into following Satan.

 

[Archemetis]

I think your parents always cared the same amount, just your Point of view has changed somehwow.

Oh, my Parents still care the same amount, I know that.

Only I'm almost 23 now, so I don't really need their approval anyway...
I was talking more about parents in general in today's society...

Anyway, what people are saying is its because games are "interactive". Which is about as factual as Heavy Metal getting kids into following Satan.

Yeah I know about the whole 'It's because you interact with it' argument, but what I don't think people who say that really get is, interaction happens on so many levels...

Like I said, I was interacting with my Terminator, my T-Rex and my Robocop, I know for certain that they weren't hopping over rainbows and having tea parties...

At least not all the time...

 

[BrionJames]

I agree with you. I think mostly that as we continue on generationally, parents (and people in general) are more and more afraid - of everything. Anything that might cause their children harm emotionally,mentally, or spiritually they try to regulate it. I believe that each generation in western culture grows up and moves on, they are exponentially weaker than their forebears. Think about what your dad did when he was a kid growing up and then compare it to the shit that you did in elementary, high school, college and/or work.

 

[Anarchemitis]

'Hook them young' is the idea of the marketers. Younger the catch, longer they're loyal, or at least interested.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I daresay if you were to look at it, the same sorts of people were against those movies, it's just that they didn't achieve much and were forgotten (people in the UK might remember the late Mary Whitehouse, though). Hell, before video games, pinball machines and milk bars were going to ruin society by corrupting our kids.

 

[p3t3r]

listen i thought the your moms gonna hate it was kinda clever idea, though maybe this is because i am 16. whatever i am willing to over look all the flaws with the deadspace marketing because the played a smashing pumpkins song in their launch trailer and that is my favorite band.

i think your right parents are caring more. as i moved through elementary school i saw changes happen for the sake of safety. for example the snow hills always got ice slides the kids used to slide down. up until grade 7 they left those alone but that year they plowed them down in order to reduce injuries. there are a few more examples i can think of just ask if you want them.

 

[Zhukov]

It's the interactivity and the fact that games are relatively new.

Plenty of parents are okay with their kids witnessing unpleasant stuff on a screen. But when they see those same kids pretending to actively inflict unpleasant stuff on that same screen they get a bit spooked.

On top of that, parents are cautious about games because they are relatively new. Especially the current-gen ones with starting-to-approach-realistic graphics. With movies and such they can think, "Well, hey, I saw Alien as a kid and I wasn't scarred for life." Not so with games. Well, not so for some parents anyway. That's starting to change now that the nerds of yesteryear are having kids of their own.

PS. My parents, especially my mum (yes, "mum" with a "u"), were a bit cautious about what I watched and played as a kid. Oh, and my mum would hate Dead Space 2. (Although I once managed to get her to admit that games could be art, so maybe there's still hope.)

PPS. As a 23-year-old who no longer lives with his parents, and therefore no longer has to consider their opinions when it comes to my choice in media, I thought the Dead Space 2 ads were hilarious. Severely lacking in taste, sure, but hilarious none the less.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

It's the interactivity and the fact that games are relatively new.

Plenty of parents are okay with their kids witnessing unpleasant stuff on a screen. But when they see those same kids pretending to actively inflict unpleasant stuff on that same screen they get a bit spooked.

On top of that, parents are cautious about games because they are relatively new. Especially the current-gen ones with starting-to-approach-realistic graphics. With movies and such they can think, "Well, hey, I saw Alien as a kid and I wasn't scarred for life." Not so with games. Well, not so for some parents anyway. That's starting to change now that the nerds of yesteryear are having kids of their own.

PS. My parents, especially my mum (yes, "mum" with a "u"), were a bit cautious about what I watched and played as a kid. Oh, and my mum would hate Dead Space 2. (Although I once managed to get her to admit that games could be art, so maybe there's still hope.)

PPS. As a 23-year-old who no longer lives with his parents, and therefore no longer has to consider their opinions when it comes to my choice in media, I thought the Dead Space 2 ads were hilarious. Severely lacking in taste, sure, but hilarious none the less.

When people blame it on 'interaction' it makes me wonder why we have toys.

Hell, I use to have toys when I was a we little tyke, and all I did was pretend they were constantly beating eachother up, Dragon Ball Zesque~ Yet I'm not a violent person.

Nerf Guns

So we can pretend we're shooting eachother to death

 

[Archemetis]

It's the interactivity and the fact that games are relatively new.

Plenty of parents are okay with their kids witnessing unpleasant stuff on a screen. But when they see those same kids pretending to actively inflict unpleasant stuff on that same screen they get a bit spooked.

On top of that, parents are cautious about games because they are relatively new. Especially the current-gen ones with starting-to-approach-realistic graphics. With movies and such they can think, "Well, hey, I saw Alien as a kid and I wasn't scarred for life." Not so with games. Well, not so for some parents anyway. That's starting to change now that the nerds of yesteryear are having kids of their own.

PS. My parents, especially my mum (yes, "mum" with a "u"), were a bit cautious about what I watched and played as a kid. Oh, and my mum would hate Dead Space 2. (Although I once managed to get her to admit that games could be art, so maybe there's still hope.)

PPS. As a 23-year-old who no longer lives with his parents, and therefore no longer has to consider their opinions when it comes to my choice in media, I thought the Dead Space 2 ads were hilarious. Severely lacking in taste, sure, but hilarious none the less.

Hey, I also thought the Dead Space 2 ads were worth a chuckle, mainly for the fact that if they weren't trying to sell it to teens, then they're kind of missing the point.

My mum (yeah I spell 'mum' with a 'u' too... Not sure why it's important though...) would hate it too... Not that I need her approval what with also being 23...
(Well, all right, not until April, but still...)

But anyway, I'm not sure the 'it's interactive' argument really scores any points, as like I said in a previous reply post, there's so many levels of interaction no one considers when making that argument, I consider playing with my toys as a 5 year old, re-creating the 'guy get's eaten while sitting in the bathroom' scene from Jurassic Park as an interactive and personally engaging experience.

Seeing it had affected me in a way that I felt compelled to recreate it, in order to do that I used my toys, which is essentially like sitting down with a controller in hand to play a movie tie-in game.

It's pretty much the same thing. The only difference is, I didn't have a screen in front of me the entire time and the limitation of game-play mechanics.

Beyond that films are becoming much more graphic intensive, in fact they're much more reliant on the high-budget computer generated content then games are. Things have a requirement to look real in films, because there has to be believability. Outside of that, there are whole departments in the film industry who make it their duty to create the closest physical reproductions of severed limbs.


And I'm supposed to believe that children can't discern reality from videogames?

For the most part, a child can look at gore in a game and recognise that it's a game.

They look at it in a film, sure they'll know it's a film. But they'll also be compelled to think about how real it looks.

 

[Flap Jack452]

Perhaps there was as much public backlash because there was a way for their message to get out? Today we have the internet to post our feelings about every little thing.

 

[Archemetis]

Perhaps there was as much public backlash because there was a way for their message to get out? Today we have the internet to post our feelings about every little thing.

I dunno, before the internet people used to write letters to people expressing there thoughts and opinions about certain things.

The amounts of times I've heard people say even today 'This [insert something here] wasn't good at all, I should write a letter to [insert producer]!'

Only difference is now that it's mostly angry emails instead of letters.

but before the net, they wrote letters, mostly to newspapers.

 

[Zhukov]

When people blame it on 'interaction' it makes me wonder why we have toys.

Hell, I use to have toys when I was a we little tyke, and all I did was pretend they were constantly beating eachother up, Dragon Ball Zesque~ Yet I'm not a violent person.

But anyway, I'm not sure the 'it's interactive' argument really scores any points, as like I said in a previous reply post, there's so many levels of interaction no one considers when making that argument, I consider playing with my toys as a 5 year old, re-creating the 'guy get's eaten while sitting in the bathroom' scene from Jurassic Park as an interactive and personally engaging experience.

Most kids play out violent scenes with their toys. The stories I used to act out with those little Lego people were filled with murder, rape and torture. Same goes for many of my friends. And not just boys either. I know a girl who used to enact scenes of rape with her My Little Ponies (almost always in the context of forced marriage for some reason). And you don't even want to know what Bardie and Ken got up to.

However, toys don't beg for their lives when you point a virtual gun at them. They don't spray blood and guts everywhere. And they don't look particularly real... y'know... despite actually being real.

Imagine if the company who makes Barbie toys were to release the a Torture Dungeon edition, with scale rack and impaler, featuring Real Screaming and Desperate Sobbing Action[sup]tm[/sup]. I think some people wouldn't be too happy.

 

[Archemetis]

When people blame it on 'interaction' it makes me wonder why we have toys.

Hell, I use to have toys when I was a we little tyke, and all I did was pretend they were constantly beating eachother up, Dragon Ball Zesque~ Yet I'm not a violent person.

But anyway, I'm not sure the 'it's interactive' argument really scores any points, as like I said in a previous reply post, there's so many levels of interaction no one considers when making that argument, I consider playing with my toys as a 5 year old, re-creating the 'guy get's eaten while sitting in the bathroom' scene from Jurassic Park as an interactive and personally engaging experience.

Most kids play out violent scenes with their toys. The stories I used to act out with those little Lego people were filled with murder, rape and torture. Same goes for many of my friends. And not just boys either. I know a girl who used to enact scenes of rape with her My Little Ponies (almost always in the context of forced marriage for some reason). And you don't even want to know what Bardie and Ken got up to.

However, toys don't beg for their lives when you point a virtual gun at them. They don't spray blood and guts everywhere. And they don't look particularly real... y'know... despite actually being real.

Imagine if the company who makes Barbie toys were to release the a Torture Dungeon edition, with scale rack and impaler, featuring Real Screaming and Desperate Sobbing Action[sup]tm[/sup]. I think some people wouldn't be too happy.

Just because they don't actually do it, doesn't mean a child can't imagine it happening and enjoy it.

Kids imaginations can be pretty vivid and powerful things...

 

[k-ossuburb]

I never really saw what the hysteria was about, I had a similar childhood and I watched all the Alien movies, the Predator movies, Robocop, The Exorsist, The Terminator, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Evil Dead movies, Dawn Of The Dead and loads more graphically violent movies.

On top of that I watched a lot of pretty adult anime, I watched Perfect Blue when I was about 12, I was also watching a lot of Ren And Stimpy and Rocko's Modern Life; two shows that brushed pretty damn close to the limits of what they could get away with.

When I played or drew I would often imagine some pretty horrible things, I would spend ages in the library looking up books on ancient mythology and draw some of the more violent and sexual things I read about, sometimes even just making it up just for the fun of it.

I've heard this being called "the pussification of America" where everyone is sheltered from violence and sexuality when it's portrayed in any fictional medium, but for some reason it's okay for them to watch and hear about the exact same things happening in real life from news programs. Those are real people having their lives destroyed and you're worried about a little bit of code wrapped up in pixels or some actor getting splattered with a little corn syrup and red dye?

Seriously, I just don't get it.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

When people blame it on 'interaction' it makes me wonder why we have toys.

Hell, I use to have toys when I was a we little tyke, and all I did was pretend they were constantly beating eachother up, Dragon Ball Zesque~ Yet I'm not a violent person.

But anyway, I'm not sure the 'it's interactive' argument really scores any points, as like I said in a previous reply post, there's so many levels of interaction no one considers when making that argument, I consider playing with my toys as a 5 year old, re-creating the 'guy get's eaten while sitting in the bathroom' scene from Jurassic Park as an interactive and personally engaging experience.

Most kids play out violent scenes with their toys. The stories I used to act out with those little Lego people were filled with murder, rape and torture. Same goes for many of my friends. And not just boys either. I know a girl who used to enact scenes of rape with her My Little Ponies (almost always in the context of forced marriage for some reason). And you don't even want to know what Bardie and Ken got up to.

However, toys don't beg for their lives when you point a virtual gun at them. They don't spray blood and guts everywhere. And they don't look particularly real... y'know... despite actually being real.

Imagine if the company who makes Barbie toys were to release the a Torture Dungeon edition, with scale rack and impaler, featuring Real Screaming and Desperate Sobbing Action[sup]tm[/sup]. I think some people wouldn't be too happy.

Oh, my. What a lame imagination you had.

Hehe, as a kid they'd scream, bleed, die and lose arms/legs in my imagination.

Oh my, was it violent stuff. :3

And I still don't see games as realistic today. Sure the scenery is, but they still look like plastic/or shells trying to pretend to be human using dialogue to make up for their faulty charade.

 

[vxicepickxv]

My parents had no problem with me watching R rated movies at a young age. Terminator at 9, Robocop at 10 or 11. Looking back though, I find it silly they didn't want me watching G.I.Joe or the WWF(That's who they were then). They got over the professional wrestling thing about the time I turned 13 or so.

My parents didn't have any problem with interactive media rotting my brain, I mean, they bought us Mortal Kombat for the Genesis, knowing there was a blood code in there. I grew up fine, for the most part.

I don't care about the Dead Space 2 ad, because I don't particularly care for the concept. I didn't find myself interested in the first one, and the second one doesn't seem to appeal to me either. I thought the ads were pretty stupid though.