Something that's bothered me...

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Da Chi

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Because Global Warming is a Theory. Heating and cooling is a natural cycle in nature and our current global climate doesn't differ from that base model. In a few decades the proof will be there for global warming, but for now it's mostly speculation on what will happen.

From a personal standpoint though there is not much we can do about it now. Look around your room, plastics, metals, paper. Each of us has made a terrible mark and cutting back on pollutants won't do a thing. Turning pollutants into resources is good in theory but rarely works. Why don't we get paid for recycling newspapers? because it's in-efficient and pollutes MORE than making new papers.
The more you know
 

thedoclc

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Da Chi said:
Because Global Warming is a Theory.
So's gravity.

Theory is defined as a well-supported large-scale explanation for a phenomena that is testable, falsifiable, supported by multiple lines of evidence, and which allows for the creation of new ideas to test.

Some other theories: the germ theory of disease, atomic theory, gravity, relativity, cell theory, set theory, etc. The argument, "It's a theory!" from a creationist or someone who disbelieves in global warming is an attempt to equivocate the words 'theory' with hypothesis. And, I think in many cases, the person presenting the argument is genuinely confused about what those two words mean.
 

thedoclc

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Booze Zombie said:
thedoclc said:
Quoety stuff
Monsanto are my main grievance with GM food, they do the bare minimum of genetic alteration, give it a load of PR spin and call it a miracle and grease the palms of any officials standing in their way.
They're patenting slightly modified life for fun and profit.

If GM food is taken up solely as a non-business venture and instead for the betterment of our planet and species, I wouldn't be opposed to it as much as I am now.
But Monsanto exists and they're utter fucks.
Agreed, they are d-bags.

However, good comes from plenty of d-baggery. The whole IR8 story and the wheat products which ended the Mexican famine in the 1940's were US products created basically to give the finger to the USSR. In essence, it was American d-baggery countering Russian d-baggery. A d-bag whose interests are aligned with the common good can be counted to be a d-bag, follow his interests, and thus still do something good.
 

Luftwaffles

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thedoclc said:
Booze Zombie said:
snippethNice points. Also like to point out that that rice you were talking about has been created. Its called golden rice, basically rice already has the enzymes for making Beta carotene(similar to pathways in carrots for example) and all they did was add the gene that encodes for the missing precursors. And as we all know B-carotene is a precursor for VitA. Not sure whats happening with it now, last i heard is that it was gonna be introduced to South-East Asia after testing.

For me, genetic manipulation of say plants is not technically GM. Look at bananas and even more so maize. The common cultivars we see now are derived from years of manipulation to suit our tastes.

Real GM however, which to me is directly tampering with the genetic sequence is quite useful. Food additives and medical chemicals like you said, some derived from nature but only made commercially viable because of GM microbes. If everybody wanted nice fancy vanilla bean pods for all their posh food, they wouldve gone extinct by now.

Parting note to all those who are anti-GM. Look at the products you purchase, referring to food products here. They all have soy or some soy derivative in the ingredients, or manufactured in a factory that also handles soy products. Roundup ready soy plants(by Mosanto iirc) are extremely popular. Chances are pretty high(90+%, not too sure so dont quote me) that you get a product that is contaminated by GM soy.
 

ElectroJosh

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thedoclc said:
Da Chi said:
Because Global Warming is a Theory.
Theory is defined as a well-supported large-scale explanation for a phenomena that is testable, falsifiable, supported by multiple lines of evidence, and which allows for the creation of new ideas to test.

Some other theories: the germ theory of disease, atomic theory, gravity, relativity, cell theory, set theory, etc. The argument, "It's a theory!" from a creationist or someone who disbelieves in global warming is an attempt to equivocate the words 'theory' with hypothesis. And, I think in many cases, the person presenting the argument is genuinely confused about what those two words mean.
Beaten, but that pretty much sums it up. If global warming is actually a theory then it needs to be taken more seriously - not less.

The real danger with GM crops comes less in the quality of food (thats easily testable for poison, toxicity and nutritional value just like any other potential food source) but how these crops may interact with the environment. They may become rampant or choke out other plant life that is a food source for local wild-life. I have no issue eating GM food (providing it has gone through the proper safetey procedures I would expect from any food I eat - their is no special "GMness" that causes magical problems regular food doesn't) but am more concerned about where the crops are planted and how well they are monitored.
 

Da Chi

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thedoclc said:
Da Chi said:
Because Global Warming is a Theory.
So's gravity.

Theory is defined as a well-supported large-scale explanation for a phenomena that is testable, falsifiable, supported by multiple lines of evidence, and which allows for the creation of new ideas to test.

Some other theories: the germ theory of disease, atomic theory, gravity, relativity, cell theory, set theory, etc. The argument, "It's a theory!" from a creationist or someone who disbelieves in global warming is an attempt to equivocate the words 'theory' with hypothesis. And, I think in many cases, the person presenting the argument is genuinely confused about what those two words mean.
the·o·ry   
[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA
?noun, plural -ries.
1.
a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
2.
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3.
Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4.
the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5.
a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6.
contemplation or speculation.
7.
guess or conjecture.
On a side note, Newton's law of universal gravitation is not a theory. Note the word LAW.

Second, Germ Theory of disease originated as a Theory because it hadn't been proven. The word THEORY doesn't mean wrong. The Germ theory has recorded advocates from as early as 36BC
It wasn't until minds like Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch could prove it that it became a cornerstone of modern medicine.

Einstein's theory of relativity. While important to the worlds of physics and astronomy, it was part of a larger picture. Einstein was working for a unifying theory of everything, while he failed in creating that, he created the theories of special relativity and general relativity. Very important pieces of work but ultimately unfinished. The reason it was a theory was that Newton's laws of motion had been untested for generations. Einstein's theories questioned those very laws with his theories.

By saying Global Warming is a theory doesn't mean it's wrong. But the proof still hasn't been made. All these theories started out as mere speculation, what made them important was PROOF. If you didn't cut my post I would point out that I stated that proof would come in the future on this matter.

I don't feel like going on any farther, but I'm sure I could find more holes in your argument.
Furthermore, don't flame me unless you know you are right.
 

BGH122

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Well I can answer why I used to disbelieve anthropogenic global warming. Here in the UK (idk about anywhere else so my answer is solely with respects to the UK) global warming is basically just a political bandwagon. Little to no real attempt is made to prevent it, it's just trotted out by politicians when they want a cheer they've not earned. If, in a Question Time debate, they're assailed particularly fiercely on an issue which they've mightily fucked up then you can bet your bottom buck that they're going to throw an issue like anthropogenic global warming into the debate to get people to forget about their misgivings. This is really the only time that the UK's general population really hears about AGW, except in the media which roundly bashes the theory, often outright lying about it (with exception of the hoighty toighty, more pretentious than the New Yorker, I'm an upper middle class pseudo-socialist willing to apologetically support any self-hating cause regardless of its validity 'The Guardian').

This is all compounded by the fact that the UK government (under Labour, it's still early days for the Conservatives so no comment as of yet) uses any old excuse it can fabricate to hit the public with taxes. So when the scientifically uninformed Brit sees the government plotting to hit us with green taxes (which it never actually demonstrates will do anything to avert global warming) and apologetically lamenting the wicked ways of the West whilst telling the developing East that it isn't allowed to develop anymore because it might make the world one degree warmer (but might also unbalance Western economies which have become reliant upon the economies of scale that can be achieved by relying upon the traditionally weak Eastern economies), they get suspicious.

You see, the problem isn't as New Scientist would have you believe. It isn't that there's a dastardly culture of denialism and hatred of science (as martyred and unique as this might allow New Scientist and its readers to feel; this kind of ridiculous supercilious skew is the reason I switched to Scientific American). It's that the British public have been conned one time too many and we've grown weary.

Since then I've thoroughly read the RealClimate and SkepticalScience websites and now agree that the anthropogenic explanation (and it's usually only this explanation, not GW itself which is in doubt) of global warming is the most feasible. But it really, really doesn't (and didn't, back when I was dubious) help matters that those who agree with AGW explanation usually do so on just as much a gut instinct as those who disagree yet pretentiously laud their supposed truth over everyone else. Scientists have good reason to believe in AGW, your average AGW supporting public member doesn't; it's just yet another bandwagon for the supercilious prick to support.

As for GM foods I've literally never read a single negative study in either the BMJ or the NEMJ. I also don't understand the claim that they cause cancer. By which mechanism is this supposed to occur?

Da Chi said:
Furthermore, don't flame me unless you know you are right.
Sorry Da Chi, he's right. In scientific lingo the word 'Theory' isn't the same as the dictionary definition for theory. To quote wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory said:
In the sciences, a scientific theory (also called an empirical theory) comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.
It's a far cry from the dictionary definition which has two separate definitions which support the use of the word theory as just a guess.
 

AgentNein

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Jun 14, 2008
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Because people don't like being told that they're fucking idiots for driving around SUV's and Hummers. They are fucking idiots, and now science backs that up, but they still don't like it.
 

Da Chi

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Snarky Username said:
Da Chi said:
Because Global Warming is a Theory.


I know I've been ninja'd, but I just I couldn't resist posting that picture.
It's a Newtonian LAW! Use wikipedia people!
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Booze Zombie said:
Please answer a question for me, people of The Escapist!
Why are people so dismissive of science when it comes to global warming, claiming that they don't trust "those people" but when it comes to "those people" tampering with life it's self, modifying our crops and "making it better for us and able to feed more people" and people trust them?

I just don't get it...

Personal response:
Because tampering with life itself produces immediate positive results useful to mankind.

Bitching about something without solid evidence of effects to make a personal living and career out of it does not produce immediate nor likely any positive results useful to mankind.
 

Danzaivar

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GM Crops are useful. Global Warming is a pain in the arse. And it's so damn politically charged these days, it's hard NOT to be suspicious of either side and their motivations.
 

cocoadog

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Are you supporting the idea of global warming? If so not only is there absolutely no evidence of that (average yearly temperatures have decreased over the past 5 years) we have far greater things to worry about than polar bears.
 

DefunctTheory

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Mar 30, 2010
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Because Global Warming is NOT FACT. Possibly our doing? Sure. Definite? No. Theirs studies that provide for both camps, but the only ones you hear are the ones on the news. And the news... well, thats another topic.

However, very few studies ever claimed that tasty, tasty food is not tasty. So more tasty food is always cool with me.

Also, people tend to trust the people with a plan (Genetics=food) rather than doomsayers that ignore real world facts and just scream 'NO MORE OIL, NOW!' over and over again. Shit, scientist/reporters, I know we need to fix our energy problems, but can I at least finish this fine, pepperjack and Hentz 57 cheeseburger first?
 

Mcupobob

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I don't know much about the GM crops, so I won't even pretend to have a opinion.

But global warming is just a political tool, the evidence is flimlsy and is the arugement is always going back and forth. Global warming has almost become its own religion with Al Gore is pope. Not to mention its now a markting tool for companies, with Geen tech and such that don't offer any help for the enviorment at all.

Now I don't belive humans have changed the earth's climate, but I do belive we have polluted our air, and need to cut back. This silly fight against carbon dixode isn't going to help much. Just last week we had a forest fire here a small one but it produced more Co2 than an suv does in a year. Not to mention how much Co2 that was put out when that volcano went off.
 

Kinguendo

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cocoadog said:
Are you supporting the idea of global warming? If so not only is there absolutely no evidence of that (average yearly temperatures have decreased over the past 5 years) we have far greater things to worry about than polar bears.
Slow down there skippy. http://www.eoearth.org/article/global_warming

There is a 130 year record for temperature with the decade of 2000-2009 being the warmest on record and the years 2001-2009 all ranking in the top ten.
 

Blemontea

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Well why some people dont believe just becuase they dont want to make hard changes to there lifes that demand removing fun activities.

My own belief though is from the science that told us that since the earths magnet has been moving are circle around the sun has become an oval meaning theres points in the year were its hotter than other times. Which is why we kept bouncing back and force between "the ice age" and "the earth burning"

Plus if you want some religious back up god after the flooding with Noah he said he would never flood the earth again.
 

TriggerUnhappy

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Mar 4, 2009
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Because people don't think this kinda shit can happen to them. It's the same mentality that causes people to think that they're invincible/will live forever, they think that life has been a certain way so far, so obviously it'll always be that way. Then, when shit goes bad they're left wondering what the fuck happened.
 

Poofs

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its because many people are heavily influenced by uninformed liberal media(Fox News)
these are the kind of people who say that global warming does not exist while banning video games and substituting history class for Bible study(exageration)
 

Jack_Uzi

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Things like the change of climate have been going on far before Tutankhamun drove his hummer trough a land full of sand that was once am oasis. And even the flatulence of the dinosaurs couldn't prevent the ice age that was coming.
Now I don't say that the way things are going is all because of the way mother nature works, maybe we speed things up (a little?) in the wrong direction. But it doesn't have to be all our wrongdoing. Sure, we should try and be a bit more careful with this one planet we have, but with all the studies that say that it may or may not be the case of our doing I only think this: regardless of the outcome.. we should try and be good to this planet.