Sony Blocks Hacked PS3s From PSN

[Xanthious]

Yep Sony really stuck it to them! All those free games they've put on their hard drives are now rendered useless . . .what? wait. They aren't? Well then surely it will no longer play movies right? Oh, still does that too eh? So you mean the only thing they've done is keep them offline, and not even permanently, just til the next patch? Wow, I'm completely and totally unimpressed.

 

[masticina]

Aka the same thing an owner of a modded xbox 360 console is suggested. By another and keep that one clean!

Once you mod it or cheat it you can get banned or they can do other things.

But yeah if you want to mod your PS3 go ahead.. don't expect anybody to be really be alike "aww they shouldn't" if you get caught and punished.

@Night Chrono

If replacing the HDD was allowing you to have different firmwares on the console sure sounds perfect. Of course Sony wouldn't allow for that and at least part of the firmware changes something on the motherboard. Probably some flash memory that contains the version number of the firmware it expects. Once a higher one is installed it won't accept the older firmwares anymore. Untill of course these hacks came out..but once you hack you might get hurt.

 

[Kroxile]

The Sony champions in this thread are silly. This is only a minor setback. The closer and closer consoles come to being PCs the more and more they are going to hacked, used for piracy, and a whole slew of other things. And no one will be able to stop them.

 

[Andy Powell]

... So you mean the only thing they've done is keep them offline, and not even permanently, just til the next patch? Wow, I'm completely and totally unimpressed.

Actually, just to clarify things a little; This IS a countermeasure to piracy too. If hacked consoles can't access the PSN, that also means they can't update the firmware. All of the latest firmware also includes Sony's rootkit tech, which can't be removed or faked because it's crosschecked online at random intervals. Now, what that means is all of the currently released games potentially CAN be pirated unless they've been patched to REQUIRE the latest firmware (which most of the popular multiplayer games will be). And FUTURE games will be coded for the most recent firmware build at time of release. (example; the recent delay before LBP2 was released).

Now, theoreticly hackers CAN release custom firmwares of the latest firmware builds, but they will have to do so WITHOUT PSN connectivity to avoid rootkit detection (so far, anyway). So if hacked firmware can't go past 3.55 (and current legit version is 3.56) that potentially means that any game requiring firmware 3.56 and above, can't be run on the system without a firmware update or game title update from the PSN. Essentially stopping hacked consoles from running any of the (online multiplayer) game titles released after a certain date. AND, those titles released prior to that date can't be played multiplayer on the PSN without risk of detection.

It's pretty clever if you ask me.

 

[Danpascooch]

now it seems that those halcyon days are over

Mr. Westbrook I'm disappointed, same for most of the posters here.

Whether you approve of the hack or not, that's like saying "new DRM system is here, piracy is over"

They can put ANY firmware they want on the PS3 now, with power like that there is no way any software or verification check fix is going to stop this because they can just copy whatever the real PS3 firmware uses to pass those checks, while keeping the other OS and homebrew restrictions removed.

This is like when Nintendo releases an update that kills flash carts and then weeks later a flash cart update bypasses it. Sony is reaching the "security bypass arms race" stage of trying to stop this hack.

Which means they have lost, utterly.

 

[Danpascooch]

Hackers will find a way. They always do.

Exactly, Jesus, I thought Escapist users have seen enough of this shit to know how the story ends.

1.) Sony updates security
2.) Hackers update Hacked firmware
3.) Repeat steps one and two FOR FUCKING EVER

apparently people think this is the end of PS3 piracy, ignorance is bliss I suppose.

 

[Danpascooch]

... So you mean the only thing they've done is keep them offline, and not even permanently, just til the next patch? Wow, I'm completely and totally unimpressed.

Actually, just to clarify things a little; This IS a countermeasure to piracy too. If hacked consoles can't access the PSN, that also means they can't update the firmware. All of the latest firmware also includes Sony's rootkit tech, which can't be removed or faked because it's crosschecked online at random intervals. Now, what that means is all of the currently released games potentially CAN be pirated unless they've been patched to REQUIRE the latest firmware (which most of the popular multiplayer games will be). And FUTURE games will be coded for the most recent firmware build at time of release. (example; the recent delay before LBP2 was released).

Now, theoreticly hackers CAN release custom firmwares of the latest firmware builds, but they will have to do so WITHOUT PSN connectivity to avoid rootkit detection (so far, anyway). So if hacked firmware can't go past 3.55 (and current legit version is 3.56) that potentially means that any game requiring firmware 3.56 and above, can't be run on the system without a firmware update or game title update from the PSN. Essentially stopping hacked consoles from running any of the (online multiplayer) game titles released after a certain date. AND, those titles released prior to that date can't be played multiplayer on the PSN without risk of detection.

It's pretty clever if you ask me.

What about the rootkit means they can't include it in the custom firmware? Or at least fake it?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I've never really understood why Sony doesn't just start banning consoles from online. They must have a way to track it, right? Microsoft does it. Then again, the amount of stuff that I understand regarding computers and hacking is nil.

 

[Danpascooch]

Yep Sony really stuck it to them! All those free games they've put on their hard drives are now rendered useless . . .what? wait. They aren't? Well then surely it will no longer play movies right? Oh, still does that too eh? So you mean the only thing they've done is keep them offline, and not even permanently, just til the next patch? Wow, I'm completely and totally unimpressed.

You think Sony hasn't fixed this? Well I have news for you!

hey idiot! You're totally missing the point, Sony has ended piracy now and forever because of a single patch!

That seems to be the general consensus in this thread, does it make you facepalm as much as me?

 

[Xanthious]

... So you mean the only thing they've done is keep them offline, and not even permanently, just til the next patch? Wow, I'm completely and totally unimpressed.

Actually, just to clarify things a little; This IS a countermeasure to piracy too. If hacked consoles can't access the PSN, that also means they can't update the firmware. All of the latest firmware also includes Sony's rootkit tech, which can't be removed or faked because it's crosschecked online at random intervals. Now, what that means is all of the currently released games potentially CAN be pirated unless they've been patched to REQUIRE the latest firmware (which most of the popular multiplayer games will be). And FUTURE games will be coded for the most recent firmware build at time of release. (example; the recent delay before LBP2 was released).

Now, theoreticly hackers CAN release custom firmwares of the latest firmware builds, but they will have to do so WITHOUT PSN connectivity to avoid rootkit detection (so far, anyway). So if hacked firmware can't go past 3.55 (and current legit version is 3.56) that potentially means that any game requiring firmware 3.56 and above, can't be run on the system without a firmware update or game title update from the PSN. Essentially stopping hacked consoles from running any of the (online multiplayer) game titles released after a certain date. AND, those titles released prior to that date can't be played multiplayer on the PSN without risk of detection.

It's pretty clever if you ask me.

Clever? Maybe. Ultimately effective? Doubtful. In all reality this will be worked around and rendered useless before the weekend is through and we will be reading another article titled "PS3 Hacked . . . Again". Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it after all.

 

[gigastar]

Sony vs Hackers.
Status: Sony 2-upped.

Well, Sony seems to have done something. The PS3 is seemingly secure from online hacking at least, but they still havent figured out how to halt offline pirating.

Writing this I came up with my own solution for the hackings, but im keeping it to myself to prevent this [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetBackdraft], or this [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlameWar] from happening.

 

[lvl9000_woot]

HUZZAH!

Seriously though, people trying to get away with using pirated game copies deserve to have their console banned online. For me this is good news.

Agreed.

Sorry homebrew folks but thoes hackers ruined it for you.

 

[Andy Powell]

What about the rootkit means they can't include it in the custom firmware? Or at least fake it?

Excellent question, and it's even more clever on Sony's part. The rootkit is not entirely included in the new firmware builds, only PART of the rootkit is. The other part of the rootkit is stored and active on the PSN right now. The PSN server-side of the rootkit communicates with the client-side of the rootkit. If it's modified, or faked, or just not giving the EXACT right answers the server-side is expecting, the console/PSN account is flagged. (possibly banned too, but that part isn't entirely clear. But recent news looks like they're banned from the PSN too)

Now, in the long term the hackers MAY be able to figure out how to fake a proper rootkit reply eventually. But in the short term, this is a really interesting and potent hacker countermeasure.

 

[poiuppx]

Good on Sony. Here's hoping they can keep the holes patched and patched rapidly when-ever the stubborn folks look to make a new exploit. Make it unappealing enough, make it enough work, and while you won't get rid of the hardcore sort, you'll get rid of the casuals, and that's plenty enough.

 

[Danpascooch]

What about the rootkit means they can't include it in the custom firmware? Or at least fake it?

Excellent question, and it's even more clever on Sony's part. The rootkit is not entirely included in the new firmware builds, only PART of the rootkit is. The other part of the rootkit is stored and active on the PSN right now. The PSN server-side of the rootkit communicates with the client-side of the rootkit. If it's modified, or faked, or just not giving the EXACT right answers the server-side is expecting, the console/PSN account is flagged. (possibly banned too, but that part isn't entirely clear. But recent news looks like they're banned from the PSN too)

Now, in the long term the hackers MAY be able to figure out how to fake a proper rootkit reply eventually. But in the short term, this is a really interesting and potent hacker countermeasure.

So the PSN is still just checking against something generated by/in the firmware?

All they need to do is get the rootkit right!

I know that's not nearly as easy as I'm making it sound, but COME ON this is HARDLY a permanent fix on any level like people are billing it as.

 

[Andy Powell]

So the PSN is still just checking against something generated by/in the firmware?

All they need to do is get the rootkit right!

I know that's not nearly as easy as I'm making it sound, but COME ON this is HARDLY a permanent fix on any level like people are billing it as.

Weeeellll.. Yes, and no... It's more like a Client/server connection. On the firmware is the client side (maybe 10% of the actual software involved), and on the server-side is the other 90%.. (these are completely made up numbers for the sake of an example). The server-side of things will be looking for VERY (and I mean VERY) specific replies from the client-side, and it will make these requests at very random intervals throughout PSN connectivity sessions. I won't stand on a soap box and say this is a fool-proof countermeasure, but from my understanding on a technical level, faking these replies is REALLY (and again, I mean REALLY) hard to fake. Also, the risk level is pretty high when hackers test their counter-countermeasure code, because the very first time their counter-countermeasure fails the firmware crosscheck that PS3 they were using will be blocked/banned from the PSN. (I'm assuming via its MAC address).

Circumventing this round of rootkit detection could possibly be a very expensive and time consuming endeavor for the hackers, considering each time they fail, they have to go get another PS3 to try again.

 

[Fearzone]

This is the right way for Sony to do it.

Suing everybody and a string of firmware updates is the wrong way.

This is nothing that the PC world hasn't been living with for a long time.

Hackers will find a way. They always do.

Yes and no. Last I heard, World of Warcraft remains pretty secure from cheating, and connecting to PSN would involve a similar client-server relationship. The server can make demands of a client that becomes increasing difficult, inconvenient, and unwieldy for modified clients to get around.

But if not connected to PSN, then yes, returning to the glory days of unbroken PS3 is a fools errand and shouldn't be attempted.

 

[8-Bit Grin]

I don't understand Sony's reaction to all of this.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but perhaps the worst thing that can happen is piracy.

However, downloading a PS3 .iso file would take... well, quite a long time.

I think that waiting for it to finish would scare away a lot of potential 'hackers'.

 

[Danpascooch]

So the PSN is still just checking against something generated by/in the firmware?

All they need to do is get the rootkit right!

I know that's not nearly as easy as I'm making it sound, but COME ON this is HARDLY a permanent fix on any level like people are billing it as.

Weeeellll.. Yes, and no... It's more like a Client/server connection. On the firmware is the client side (maybe 10% of the actual software involved), and on the server-side is the other 90%.. (these are completely made up numbers for the sake of an example). The server-side of things will be looking for VERY (and I mean VERY) specific replies from the client-side, and it will make these requests at very random intervals throughout PSN connectivity sessions. I won't stand on a soap box and say this is a fool-proof countermeasure, but from my understanding on a technical level, faking these replies is REALLY (and again, I mean REALLY) hard to fake. Also, the risk level is pretty high when hackers test their counter-countermeasure code, because the very first time their counter-countermeasure fails the firmware crosscheck that PS3 they were using will be blocked/banned from the PSN. (I'm assuming via its MAC address).

Circumventing this round of rootkit detection could possibly be a very expensive and time consuming endeavor for the hackers, considering each time they fail, they have to go get another PS3 to try again.

First off, I don't think it will be as hard to fake as you think, they have firmware code to look at and copy

Secondly, they won't have to buy a new PS3 each time, the news story said they can buy a new PS3 or remove the custom firmware and download Sony's latest update. So they if the test fails they can remove the hack, and get Sony's legit firmware, then hack the custom firmware on it again for another test as much as they like.

None of this shit is easy, but now that people have a taste of a fully hacked PS3, they aren't going to stop, it's amazing what people like this can do anyway.

Plus, George Hotz went to the same college I'm currently attending, so he MUST SUCCEED! It's a matter of honor!

 

[Andy Powell]

...
None of this shit is easy, but now that people have a taste of a fully hacked PS3, they aren't going to stop, it's amazing what people like this can do anyway.
...

heheh.. Yeah I know this is nowhere near being a complete solution, I just think it's a very clever one. I think the completeness level of the ban would probably depend on the level of hardware data collected server-side at the time of a failed cross-check. I'll be honest and say openly that I have no idea what is actually going on in the whole process of the rootkit detection/checks, and I'm sure Sony wants to keep it that way. But I also think that it's entirely possible that not only a users PSN account is banned, but also the specific console hardware itself could also potentially be banned too. It would all have to be dependant on what data was collected at the time of the failed crosscheck though. Like serial numbers, MAC addresses, that sorta thing.

If that's the case, then the challenge of hacking that one specific console would get harder and harder with each attempt.. It's an interesting thing to think about.