Pffft... Porn is the main reason you get the internet, games are just a bonus and social platforms are just a consequence.Tharwen said:
Sony CEO Speaks Out on PSN Catastrophe
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Right, it's for a year, then you can decide to keep it probably or drop it. The whole point is to woo people back by giving them extra peace of mind. Saying "we fixed our security" probably isn't enough to convince people, but offering free ID theft protection through a third party might at least calm people's fears. I haven't read this thread, but I'm guessing a lot of people are still ragging on Sony, but there's not much you can fault about a company offering free services like this.Sovereignty said:
But I'm not a Playstation owner (aside from my old PS2), so I'm not too upset overall.
Well, if they have Linux installed on their Playstations, then no, they're not affected by the PSN shutdown. Regardless of perceived injustices by Sony, there's no excuse for hacking a network and stealing customer data, even if they don't sell it or use it. That would be like robbing Bank of America to "prove a point," then trying to say it's okay because you didn't spend the money.Yetshua said:
You've gotten mixed up here. There's two groups of hackers.Awexsome said:So... you'd rather put the people trying to steal your personal information to use for nefarious purposes higher up on the pedestal here?Danzaivar said:Yeah we'd all be better off if noone was around to show how crap the security of people we trust with our private data is...Awexsome said:It would be very bad for the gaming industry for what? For all the hackers and people like Geohotz to disappear?Frostbite3789 said:It would also be very bad for the games industry as a whole. If you can't figure out why, there is no point in explaining it.Furious Styles said:Oh yes let's all have a chuckle about sony going out of business. You forget that Sony isn't just the head honchos and higher ups responsible for this mess, who even if it went out of business could fall back on their fortunes, its every single employee, supplier, buyer and all the employees of those respective companies. If Sony were to go down, it would have an awful effect on a great many people so don't wish downfall upon Sony. I sincerely hope you're joking, I have no great love for Sony right now (nor ever particularly) but if such a big company collapsed it would be catastrophic.linkvegeta said:Thats because the credit cards were a cover to steal Important documents from Sony that can shut them down permanently. See you later Sony you had a good run but your time is now limited. The clock has begun.......
This is exactly how I feel about the whole thing in general, and that whole geohotz thing... and anonymous.Blindrooster said:
No. No it wouldn't. In fact it would make this world a much, much better place without them.
What?
One group (involving geohotz) that cracked the CONSOLE to restore the functionality Sony took out (I.e. OtherOS). All these guys did in terms of Sony's security was show how piss-poor it was on the console.
Then theres another group of "hackers" who got into the SERVERS and stole everyones credit card data.
Two seperate incidents. The only thing they have in common is they exploited stupid mistakes that Sony have made. Getting them mixed up is a forgivable mistake though.
And yeah we should put the non-thefty ones on a pedestal, they showed us all that Sony doesn't know a damn thing about computer security. We're idiots for not heeding that warning and deleting out PSN credit card details when we saw what passed as 'good practice' in Sony HQ. It's like moaning about your smoke alarm going off while your house is burning down.
Yes, let's completely immolate a large, world-wide corporation just to make a few hackers go away. It's not like if this company or any of it's sections were to go down we would have thousands of people unemployed, dozens of video game developers without a publisher, various sections of their R&D team/PR/Engineers/etc... being completely dissolved, a removal of competition in the industries affected, and affect the global economy through shareholders and such.Awexsome said:
Talk about setting fire to everyone's lawn to remove a few racoons.
So because no information has (allegedly) been used that wholly justifies the breaking and entering and stealing millions of users information, inconveniencing said millions of users, and because these hackers are potentially gamers that are "just as effected by this as you are!" that completely justifies their criminal actions?Yetshua said:
Talk about bombing every school in a district to prove the point that education needs reform.
Do not attempt to paint these dirty hackers/crackers/whateveryouwanttocallthem as "righteous, altruistic, gamers trying to promote the rights of the customers!" They've stolen information. They stole information of 77 million people. They've stolen the birthdays, passwords, usernames, addresses, e-mails, and potentially even credit cards of 77 million people. Not counting the recent attacks on Sony's MMOs. How someone can twist that to make the hackers the heroes I will never know. I don't give two shits if they didn't use any of it, there are better ways to prove a point. A hacker has to be, to put it nicely, a complete idiot to think that stealing people's information would somehow rally people to see the "real" injustice, yet somehow there are people supporting them for theft.
These people wanted the information. If they were truly altruistic, they would have stolen no information to begin with, and they wouldn't have done this shit. Don't even try to justify this heinous act. Now, is Sony potentially to blame here? Sure, I suppose so, depending on how secure the system supposedly was, and no amount of security is ever enough when you get hacked.
That's kinda like XBox: "You say you want to play on-line and get those achievements that are only possible on-line? That's fine. Hey, just so you know, if you actually wanna play on-line, you have to pay to do so. Oh yeah, you can't message your friends either unless you pay."tthor said:
So yeah, kinda like it. But not really.
Those are pretty much the ideas that I am presenting, yes. Sony started this whole thing with their actions, and so long as the hackers in question never use the information, then I believe that the actions they took are a powerful protest against those actions, and that we the consumers should support them.JDKJ said:
No, it would not be. No one grabbed a gun and waltzed in, held the server room at gunpoint, and stole their machines. Nothing that's even tangible has been stolen. You're talking about electronic ones and zeros here. Information only has value if it is used, and so, if it is not used, then they haven't even taken anything of value. If I had to make a guess, I would venture to say that the information was probably never even viewed. Note that this is all conjecture on my part, and my perception of this could be wrong.rsvp42 said:
Bombing a series of schools? That comparison is nothing but sensationalism and it doesn't hold water. The very idea is beyond ridiculous. As far as your assertion that they couldn't possibly be altruistic because they took information, information has no value unless that information is put to some use. So until that happens, they haven't taken anything from you at all, except your access to PSN. And truthfully, they didn't even do that. It is Sony that shut down the network, and they did so in order to repair huge security issues that were neglected for a long time. All the hackers did was force them to fix it.Jumplion said:
I don't believe the hackers intent was to "...rally people..." at all. It was to send a message to Sony. The more attacks on Sony that take place, the more obvious that becomes. As far as there being better ways to prove a point, I am completely supportive of that idea. I am not so blind as to see that there were certainly negative side effects to this course of action. So I will ask you, since you are the one putting forth the thought, what would have been a better way?
What would you have done instead? Would you have sent them a letter or an email? Complained on the forums? Tried to start a boycott of Sony's products? Have you actually done anything yourself? It seems that everyone is fairly happy when they can hop online and download the latest song or movie, or the cracked version of their favorite software. After all, that's convenient. But as soon as something inconveniences people, they're raving mad at how wrong it is. Note that all of those things are illegal too, but I don't see anyone except the corporations rallying to the cause of those laws.
People say nothing about the almost complete collapse of what used to be the music industry, but as soon as something inconveniences them, they're out for blood. It's hypocritical nonsense. Oh, as a side note: Please, if you are going to put something in quotation marks, be sure it is an actual quote and not a paraphrase. It's not that I'm a grammar nazi, cause I'm not, but it misrepresents what someone said.
It does hold water because according to you, these hackers only hacked and stole information, inconvenienced millions of users, and enacted various sorts of legal action, so they could "...[send] a message to Sony. A message I hope they pay attention to." Which is akin to doing an extremely over-the-top action to prove a pretty minor point in comparison.Yetshua said:
To make a less extreme example, it's like some thieves going into a store and stealing everything, yet not using said items because food is only useful unless it's used, so they're really making the point that the store has sub-par security. That still doesn't excuse their dickishness or criminal behavior or them stealing the items or putting the owner
The very idea of your assertion that they must be altruistic even though they stole information has no value unless said hackers are complete idiots to think that it would ever be taken that way. It's a fallacy of some kind, I'm sure, to basically say "Sure, they stole information, but since they haven't (allegedly) used it, that means they're really the good guys!"
If that was truly their intention, they would have stolen no information to begin with. Your argument that these people are somehow altruistic to consumer rights or whatever falls flat when the fact is brought up that they stole said consumers information.
Please tell me, what was their intent?
Please do tell, what was the message?
Ah, so the message is "Yo, Sony, we think your data encryption on 163DE6 neuxalyze counter-points are a bit outdated. Also, we've got your users stuff, thanks!" So you support stealing 77 million people's information to prove a minor point in comparison. You're thinking that these people have morals or ethics. These are not white-hat hackers. These are not, by comparison, Anonymous. They have no point to make other than "Hey, we've stolen information from you guys, thanks!"
I have to wonder what your cross-examination would be like for the hackers if you were their lawyers...
Break into the network without stealing a single byte of information or causing strife.
As I have no hacking ability, I would only have to speculate. Maybe apply for a job at Sony, offer my services to them. You know, use my hacking abilities with a sense of morality and ethics. But clearly, breaking in and stealing millions of users information is the best way to prove the point that "Hey, I think you need to update your security, doods".
Do you really think that people here are complaining because this is inconvenient to them? No, of course they are, those entitled brats, it's not like their personal information and various account information have been exposed by black-hat hackers and their credit cards have potentially been leaked among all of this.
I guarantee you there wouldn't be nearly as much blood-thirst for these hackers if they had not stolen one iota of information from them. Still some blood-thirst, sure, and if they had not stolen information than your point of "as soon as something inconveniences them, they're out for blood" would make a whole lot more sense.
Well based on the effects this has had on Sony, I'd say the data does have value. Sony is being sued for very large amounts of money over the loss of this data and are incurring a lot of expenses reworking their infrastructure* and stemming the tide of customers leaving them, so it clearly holds value for a lot of people. My bank robbing simile was admittedly rough, but the tangible effects of stealing this data are undeniable, even without having used it or sold it.Yetshua said:
*obviously their security should have already been up to par, but hindsight's 20/20
