Sony Losing Money on PSP, PS3

[TheScottishFella]

the response from Sony's senior staff was that "currency movements" alone were to blame.

Or maybe, just maybe there might be a little bit to do with the fact Sony keeps spitting on its customers repeatedly. Perhaps removing features, shutting down/blocking accounts, pushing unwanted products/features/services was not the wisest way for you guys to go.

Let's not make this personal.

 

[MammothBlade]

The situation of the big 3 console developers is such a headache. I hope Sony doesn't go down, but it really needs to up its game.

There has been a serious drought of good PS3/PSP titles. Is this a sign of the death of console gaming in general, or just a problem with Sony? Perhaps it's both... at a time when gaming is more popular than ever, why is this happening?

 

[Richard Allen]

Good, after everything they have done to their customers no wonder people are moving away from them in droves.

Let's not make this personal.

That's not personal it's business. Sony quality has steadily declined throughout the years and they have had no issues throwing their customers under the bus. Treat your customers like shit and make crappy products, you lose business.

 

[insanelich]

That's not very nice. Sony employs or provides large portions of thousands and thousands of people's incomes--people that have nothing to do with the business decisions or public interactions. Wanting or being glad that a business is suffering isn't very constructive.

Just because you don't like a company, even if you think the company makes horrible products, doesn't mean it's good when they suffer.

This is nonsense. Sony isn't the only employer out there and more importantly it is not the only company competing for that money. Money not spent on Sony products will mostly go to other companies, thus providing employment and income to other, better people.

 

[Zaik]

This sounds starkly familiar to Sega's Dreamcast days, and the lead-ins from their GameGear/SegaCD/Saturn days as well...

... Do you think Sony would ever go third-party?

They might as well, I mean it isn't like we're living in the 90's when each platform is almost made of exclusive titles. It may be more profitable for Sony to sell what rights they do have and just go into software development. It would get us one step closer to the Everyone vs Everyone fighting game we may eventually get one day. The only major strength PSP, PSV and I think PS3 has is the lack of a region lock and that's only really applicable to people who like to import the games Japan doesn't want to share.

For years it's baffled me that every single movie came out on DVD, but games couldn't do the same. You'd never hear the end of it if Sony only released Sony movies on their Sony-brand Sony-produced DVDs or something...

I'm with you. An "everyone vs. everyone" style market is what the games industry is heading towards. And I think that's a good thing.

This is more of an issue with how games are made, actually.

Because the playstation/xbox/wii are all standardized hardware, it is much easier to design to the limit of it's potential.

PCs on the other hand, are wildly different and parts are released by different manufacturers, some are frankensteined from random shit, etc. DirectX and operating systems are used to provide the standardization needed to be able to actually develop for a large number of PCs at once, however you can't come anywhere close to being able to pull out the full potential like you can when you're working with a specific set of hardware.

If they just started releasing games to be played on whatever system it would make it much more obvious what consoles actually are, terrible cheap ass computers.

 

[viranimus]

the response from Sony's senior staff was that "currency movements" alone were to blame.

Or maybe, just maybe there might be a little bit to do with the fact Sony keeps spitting on its customers repeatedly. Perhaps removing features, shutting down/blocking accounts, pushing unwanted products/features/services was not the wisest way for you guys to go.

Let's not make this personal.

A: First off was any content added with this? Im confused who is speaking.

B: Sony chose to make this personal. Sony began removing advertised features from their new products. Then they removed advertised features from all PS3s, Attempted and failed to prosecute people who tried to restore the functionality of those removed features, then either orchestrated or incited (the truth will never be known on that one)a supposed hack attack, then proceeded to use the hack attack as a glorified upsell of unwanted features, then demanded people who had legally purchase their product submit and yield legal rights and in the process are still to this day holding legally bought and paid for content hostage until submission of voluntary compliance. And beyond that, they set the precedent of doing so that is slowly making the rounds across all major gaming platforms.

All of which (with the exception of being prosecuted) has effected me personally as I sit here with my neutered non backwards compatible fat PS3 that can only do 2/3rds of what it was designed to do and 1/3rd of why I purchased it.

Just exactly how much more invasively personal does Sony have to get before its ok to actually get upset and do something about this?

 

[GenGenners]

Good, after everything they have done to their customers no wonder people are moving away from them in droves.

Let's not make this personal.

That's not personal it's business. Sony quality has steadily declined throughout the years and they have had no issues throwing their customers under the bus. Treat your customers like shit and make crappy products, you lose business.

Consumers are also partly to blame. The majority of 'mainstream' gamers don't want the kind of service Sony offers anymore. People want accessible, cheap, user-friendly entertainment. However, Sony has always specialised in top-of-the-range quality stuff. They're the tortoise to Microsoft and Nintendo's hare. Problem is, people don't want the tortoise.
It's similar to the reason why the biggest films of the year are always mindless action flicks. People just prefer instant gratification. It's human nature.

Sony will have to realise this for the next generation, or they're doomed.

 

[unstabLized]

This always happens around these times of the year.. More now then before, obviously. I don't understand, why is there such a drought in late spring/summer? Shouldn't companies release games during summer? When people have free time? Instead, all of a sudden in at the end of August till December, there's mega releases of games. I don't know about others, but one, I don't have that much time to play, and second, I don't have that much money to spend. If everything's going at once, wouldn't that bring sales down? Why not break the sales from Fall time into Summer/Fall/Winter?

Captcha: If a friend died, how would you feel?
Whoa.. D:

 

[Richard Allen]

Good, after everything they have done to their customers no wonder people are moving away from them in droves.

Let's not make this personal.

That's not personal it's business. Sony quality has steadily declined throughout the years and they have had no issues throwing their customers under the bus. Treat your customers like shit and make crappy products, you lose business.

Consumers are also partly to blame. The majority of 'mainstream' gamers don't want the kind of service Sony offers anymore. People want accessible, cheap, user-friendly entertainment. However, Sony has always specialised in top-of-the-range quality stuff. They're the tortoise to Microsoft and Nintendo's hare. Problem is, people don't want the tortoise.
It's similar to the reason why the biggest films of the year are always mindless action flicks. People just prefer instant gratification. It's human nature.

Sony will have to realise this for the next generation, or they're doomed.

What kind of non-sense is that.... are you kidding? People have shown time and time again that they will pay for quality. Apple proves, that and Samsung (you know the company that sony sold of and is doing stupid well).

The problem isn't that sony is targeting some high end customer it's that they have made a good high end or cheap device in years... tv's meh, I can find a lg, or samsung of same quality for the same price and on the high end sony tv's are shit compared to others out there. This isn't new, the sony is going to shit meme/situation has been going on since the mid 90's and isn't exactly hidden from the public eye.

Tldr; sony makes shit products on both the high end and low end. sony is willing to screw over a customer if it will make them a few extra bucks. There is no issue with a customers not wanting to pay for quality. The reports show over and over gamers are now in their mid 30's and have more disposable income then ever (minus 3 years ago during the boom plus before the global recession but certainly more then 8 or 9 years ago).

 

[Ryan Minns]

Good, after everything they have done to their customers no wonder people are moving away from them in droves.

To be fair, despite agreeing Sony are a bunch of pricks if all companies, especially console companies deserved to lose out due to shitting on their consumers we'd have VERY few games to play these days. There are bigger companies that have done worse despite how bad Sony has been

 

[viranimus]

Yeah, its almost like those sorts of actions are skewed through the lense of someone hypercritical and desermined to hate Sony, by hating them for standard practices with dealing with accounts and subscribers, and by calling every feature removed vital and the huge number of features added "unwanted".

Oh and, to this day not a single person has been forced to give up the Other OS feature. They gave it up willingly, by signing a contract. The consumer chose on an individual by individual basis which was more important, the Other OS feature or continued access to Sony's free online service. They overwhelmingly chose the latter.

Wow.... Ok. To do this is going to take a LOT of effort. So forewarning.

The perspective is that of someone who as a teenager saved up for their first Walkman... in Cassette format. The perspective of owning a graveyard full of discmans. Its the perspective of someone who is looking at four different pre surround sound stereo (as in the 3 foot tall speaker kind) components used as powered PC speakers as this is being written. The perspective of someone who started with the Sony Errison GAIT Cellphone and has bought 3 others since. The perspective of someone who has owned at some time or another every console short of the PSPGo and PSPvita. This is a perspective of someone who owns two vehicles and manually installed after market Sony Xplod receivers and speaker systems.

This is NOT the perspective of someone predisposed and determined to hate Sony. If anything there was a foundation of overflowing love for Sony that has justifiably been eroded due to their actions.

Spoiler: Underlined

Now I underlined a specific thing because it is quite relevant. Standard operating procedure. Thing is Sonys case is a perfect example of this. There was no precedent before Sony decided to demand people give up their rights to access their content. However because people have to this day still done nothing to stop this unlawful power grab, we see four of the most pervasive gaming platforms in modern existence. Sony, MS, Origin, Steam (obviously not all, but four of) who now view this as standard operating procedure.

Spoiler: Bolded

I point to because of a couple points.

A: it does not matter what the justification was or what was removed. It is the fact that it is a bait and switch by removing advertised features. It would be like going to the doctor for a routine checkup (IE firmware upgrade) and the doctor states that before he can examine you he must remove your Appendix and gall bladder. They are not "vital" features for anyone to live and many people have for whatever reason elected to have those features removed. He demands this even though there is no logical need to remove these features. Then even against your better judgement you agree to allow him to remove these features from you, he tries to convince you while your spread open and under anesthesia to allow him to install an artifical pancreas that constantly monitors your insulin levels. Even though your not a diabetic and it would directly conflict and create redundancy with the actual pancreas you have elsewhere.

B: What is a feature? Basic definition is something offered as a special attraction or generate interest. They were features they advertised to encourage people to buy the product. People considered those features in weighing out the decision to go with a PS3 or alternative product. No matter how you want to look at it, its still a (debatable unintentional) bait and switch and in doing so results in false advertisement as any advertisements still floating around from before the change indicate features that have since been made null and void. And anything that generates no benefit or interest for the customer and only services the ends of the manufacturer is not a feature because it cannot and will not generate special attraction or interest to the product.

And while on features we turn our attention to unwanted features. Playstation Plus ISNT a feature. Its sole purpose for existing is to sell customers things. End of discussion. It does so directly with sales of various PSN games, and the price of admission granting discounts on products, but in no way shape or form is that a reason one would consider buying a Sony product. Playstation Home is an unwanted feature added to try and cash in on Nintendo MIIs. Dont believe me. Go ahead and download and install it (cause essentially no one wastes the hard drive space) and log in and bask in the wonder of an empty, unused world filled with some of the worst looking char customization avatars ever attempted and littered with more NPCs than actual people. Then lets look at something like what youll want to likely point to next. entities such as HuluPlus, Netflix, Pandora Radio (not sure on that one, but what ever alternatives and similar.) Those are not features Sony made. Those are features those individual companies wanted to expand their reach and as such licensed the Sony platform to do so, so sorry, those do not count as Sony deserves no credit for it.

Spoiler: Strike

The words escape me here. But I will try.

No.

The operating system issue was not some mere elective chosen at the individuals discretion. It was an ultimatum. Choose which feature you are going to lose. Lose your ability to add your own OS, Or lose your ability to play games in multiplayer for free over our network. Those were BOTH features and Sony decreed that all those who legally bought and paid for their product had to choose which feature they would lose via their compliance or resistance. There was no middle ground and again it is an albeit unintentional, it is still a bait and switch tactic. While to some that choice was viewed as something irrelevant and flippantly made. To others it was closer to having to chose between which of your children would live or die. (over dramatized unintentionally. Sorry. But other metaphors would have less cohesion)

Spoiler: Summary or as close as I am doing to a TL;DR on this.

So again this is not the perspective of someone who wants to hate Sony just to hate Sony. This is the perspective of someone who has been an adamant long time supporter of Sony for literally decades, but over the course of the last roughly four years has been repeatedly burnt by an organization I have in the past vehemently defended and it is a symptom of the current economic climate where it is not just Sony doing this, but all corporations are slowly pushing their way to conglomeration and potentially paving the way for a future of state corporatism. That is what these little baby steps are doing. You cannot call it a slippery slope because you have literally hundreds of years of precedent to see what has/will happen, and you have modern examples of precedent that confirm the direction it is headed.

That is why I speak out in aneurism inducing walls of text adamantly defending my position on this issue. Its not out of hate for Sony.. It is out of love for freedom of the people to be free from economic tyranny and persecution, which really is what this is quickly becoming.

Spoiler: The psychology of how and why

And you want to know why? Ill tell you why. It is the fault of the parents of this current generation of gamers. You know the gamers of which I speak. The ones who are 25 years old(and younger) and still view themselves as "a kid" This is the generation whos baby boomer and early GenX parents protected and coddled and reassured and told them that everyone is special and that everything should be equal, nice and politically correct. While those values have problems of their own, the real problem is the sheltering/coddling of these adult children entirely too far into their adulthood.

With these sheltered children they spent the formative years of their lives when they should be learning how to make decisions for themselves and facing the consequences of those decisions in a bubble like environment where their needs are provided for but at the expense of not being allowed to properly express or explore their mid teenage adulthood and devoid of proper rights and privileges. With such this generation essentially lacks a proper understanding of the value of property/ownership and it clearly shows because of this coddling they do not exhibit any appreciation for the value of what they spend their money on, How they reward bad behavior monetarily "just because they want it" or even why it is paramount to protect rights at all costs thanks to having lived much of their lives without them. This is why you see the flippant attitude that keeps asking "Why should I care?" Worst part is... its not even their fault.

Read this.. it explains the adverse effects of coddling in more detail than I wish to explain for the purposes of this how and why section. Not to mention interesting elaborations on the false perception this generation is the first be be less intelligent than prior ones.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200703/trashing-teens?page=1

It is the fault of their parents generation who indirectly set the stage for this lack of respect for ownership value, lack of responsibility as well as lack of account ability in the way ones personal choices effect everyone by fostering a perpetual state of demand and supply.

Now because that weakness has been exposed what do you see? You see that generation now finally starting to come into "buying power" absent the needed defensive weapon of protecting their consumer rights, now becoming the dominant force in gamer demographics. With such you have seen clear and decisive moves on the part of many corporations to exploit that weakness and naivete and dupe them into freely giving up freedom before they finally learn better and start protecting it. We see all gamers and all consumers adversely effects thanks to the ignorance, gullibility, and naive thinking exhibited en mass by the ME generation.

Now dont get me wrong. Every generation has its smart individuals. This is a generalization that is becoming very clear about the commonality in behaviors exhibited by GenY. It would not even be a problem if it were not for the nature of capitalism and free markets that demand profit be made by exploiting any weakness that are plausible and the choices of one group of gamers would not adversely effect all consumers. However it is simply not the world we live in, and this generation needs to wake up and realize what kind of world they live in instead of never being properly weened off of that foundation of endless demand and supply without question.

 

[Warped_Ghost]

it would be a damn shame if Sony backed out of the console market, they've had the best exclusives this generation.

In the Xbox's defence Microsoft didn't bother with exclusives as much a PS3 did.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Wonder if this is the same fate as the Wii U will have? You wonder if it will be viable for either Sony or Nintendo to bring out another console. Or will they go the same as Sega or co produce a console together? Sounds unlikely, but i remember when the idea of Sega making games for other platforms was an impossible thought, but it happened.

 

[gorfias]

It's not exactly rocket science. The companies should know what they're doing wrong. ....

The real question is, will the Wii U break that trend, or make it worse? The fact that they've refused to give a price for the console is significantly worrying.

I think the Wii U is a fad. I want a controller as similar to the 360 as possible. It is the best I've ever had.

Nintendo will see a bump, and then nothing.

I think the market is saturated with current gen. Great for consumers, tough on them. Even the Ouya is coming. $100 and play near current gen games on a $100 console. I just bought more than I'll ever play in Steam's Summer PC sales. I got hundreds of bucks worth of games for about $50. I got Portal 1 & 2 for a total of $7ish. My buddy spend at least $30 on Portal 2 alone.

To shake things up for consoles, we need a new generation. About the only thing that would make me spend $60 on a new FPS is if it is on a new gen console, which I think too many other people are thinking.

So, look for MS and Sony to announce next gen at next Spring's E3. I really think it the only way to get people excited about games.

Here's the problem for next gen consoles though: I have a state of the art gaming PC worth about $3K. I love it. But I would argue graphics on it are only teeny tiny slightly better than a $249 PS3.

I understand a lot of the trouble comes from the difficulties in programming the next gen of games, not hardware. For the next gen consoles, this is a huge problem. Suppose a PS4 cost $600 like launch PS3s? Suppose you get a lot more hardware but the games barely look any different?

Good time to be a consumer though. I'm buying quality PS3 titles for as little as $20 new. If I don't buy another for 5 years, I'll still likely never finish all I already own.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I have not had a reason to use my PSP for a few years now, and haven't even bothered with the Vita. I don't even particularly feel like I'm missing out on anything. I don't want a lot of crappy games for the handhelds, but honestly, a few more solid games would be a great addition at this point.

PS3, well, I've bought two for their lifespans, what more do you want? PS4 time, guys.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Oh and, to this day not a single person has been forced to give up the Other OS feature. They gave it up willingly, by signing a contract. The consumer chose on an individual by individual basis which was more important, the Other OS feature or continued access to Sony's free online service. They overwhelmingly chose the latter.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but really? It's very unreasonable to put customers in a position where they have to choose which of two promised functions their product should have. That's BS. Like buying a car and then being forced to choose between windscreen wipers and driving, even though you bought the car expecting to drive in the rain. Admittedly, only a handful of people were going to use that, but it's still disingeuous and contemptible.

 

[flarty]

it would be a damn shame if Sony backed out of the console market, they've had the best exclusives this generation.

In the Xbox's defence Microsoft didn't bother with exclusives as much a PS3 did.

Are you really sure about that?
Alan wake, Gears of war, Halo, Fez, Fable? are just a few games that spring to mind not even mentioning indie classics such as fez or the 1 month exclusivity deals on cod dlc and the more recent skyrim dlc. Thats not even mentioning the exclusivity deals they had going on earlier on such as the first bioshock or mass effect 1.

But when compared to ps3 exclusives the quality and innovation seems to pale. In my opinion anyway.

 

[Warped_Ghost]

it would be a damn shame if Sony backed out of the console market, they've had the best exclusives this generation.

In the Xbox's defence Microsoft didn't bother with exclusives as much a PS3 did.

Are you really sure about that?
Alan wake, Gears of war, Halo, Fez, Fable? are just a few games that spring to mind not even mentioning indie classics such as fez or the 1 month exclusivity deals on cod dlc and the more recent skyrim dlc. Thats not even mentioning the exclusivity deals they had going on earlier on such as the first bioshock or mass effect 1.

But when compared to ps3 exclusives the quality and innovation seems to pale. In my opinion anyway.

Xbox technically has more exclusives than PS3 but thats mostly because of kinect and arcade games. PS3 has more triple A exclusive series.

I don't really see 1 month early dlc as being exclusive because if you consider that to be exclusive you could consider multiple games as being North American exclusives because they release later in Europe.

Here are the two lists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CategorylayStation_3-only_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox_360-only_games


BTW
-Mass Effect 1 never came to ps3 only ME2 and ME3 did
-PS3 version of dawngaurd will take longer than a month because PS3 and Skyrim dont agree with each other
http://ca.ign.com/videos/2012/08/03/news-dawnguard-hits-pc-ps3-version-delayed


Out of curiosity which titles made you think PS3 exclusive titles were better than Xbox ones?

 

[flarty]

I don't really see 1 month early dlc as being exclusive because if you consider that to be exclusive you could consider multiple games as being North American exclusives because they release later in Europe.

I can understand you view, but they are by name exclusivity deals, and are designed to entice people to buy their console over a competitors.

But my fave ps3 exclusives thus far have been MGS4, the uncharted series, Journey, Little Big planet, Heavy Rain. But there's also games in the pipeline i'm still hyped for like The Last Guardian, The last of us and Beyond: Two Souls.

Dnt get me wrong i got no hatred for the 360, the ps3 has been relegated to the bedroom since we bought a 360 with a kinect and i think the interface on the 360 is a lot nicer and a smoother experience, and while it has many great games that are multi platform, there's really not that many triple AAA exclusive i'm interested in, maybe that's because microsoft seem to be more focused on FPS games, and that genre will always be superior on pc.

But hey this is just my opinion, and it only really counts to me.

 

[TheDuckbunny]

I can't help but feel sorry for Sony every time I read news like this. Of the big three I probably like them the most yet they've become the underdog this generation and just seem to struggle to stay alive with every move they make. Here's hoping they'll be able to pick up their game (no pun intended) and continue to make great games possible.