South Park Creator Says Video Games Face "Double Standard"

[SSJBlastoise]

The problem with the ratings board is that they don't actually sit down and play the games/watch the shows/movies etc, it actually comes down to what the publishers write in the form and a few clips showing things they consider potentially controversial which they submit to the classification board that they go off. So the way something is described in the form and presented in the footage can make all the difference as context in most of these cases is everything. That's why GTAV got through where as SR4 got changed.

Honestly, that's what must be happening. If they'd played it they probably would have wanted the entire anal-probe teleporter censored as well, I mean it does show a device exiting from a minor's rear end and somehow that's perfectly fine but the original anal probing is wrong?

I've no sympathy for him. At all.

Just because you can get away with it in America doesn't mean you can get away with it every where else, yes, shocking as it might be to some America isn't the gold standard for the rest of the world.

What are you even on about? He is 100% correct. Many of the jokes have been used before in the TV show which is uncensored. I'm in Australia and have every season up to season 16 and none of the episodes are censored while the game is. How is there not a double standard?

OT: He is right and it's pretty annoying. Every South Park episode is rated MA15+ here while the game is rated R18+, you'd expect that the removal of some pretty run of the mill South Park gags would see the game brought back to an MA15+ rating but no. I'll admit the message used in place of the censored bits was a bit funny but I would have much rather played the game as it was intended to be played by its creators.

Also, so what if it wasn't censored by PEGI in Europe? It was still censored in Australia so he's not lying in that regard.

 

[shadowmagus]

I never placed the South park creators with high esteem when it comes to their IQ. Regardless what they say, it makes no sense that the censors would allow some formats to be uncensored.

Which is funny considering you are talking about people who have won a Grammy, a Tony, and an Emmy. They certainly aren't lacking for intelligence.

Just saying.

 

[StHubi]

In my opinion the PEGI system is actually pretty fair and most Germans wished Germany would ditch its special national way and just join PEGI.

It would be debatable if it is really "most Germans". From my point of view that is not a good idea. The current system is really easy to understand. But I am sure, as soon as the USK is gone the BPjM would not automatically accept 18+ ratings by the ESRB as binding (the law is only about the USK NOT about other organizations!). That could even mean a return to "This 16+ game is to gory! We ban it!" like it was before 2003.

It would be back to the old situation and that would be MUCH worse than today's situation. So far there was also no game that I would have really disagreed with the USK's rating... How developers and publishers react to such ratings is their own decision. South Park TSoT is a really good example for this - they choose the financially most promising way That is not art, that is commerce.

 

[RoonMian]

In my opinion the PEGI system is actually pretty fair and most Germans wished Germany would ditch its special national way and just join PEGI.

It would be debatable if it is really "most Germans". From my point of view that is not a good idea. The current system is really easy to understand. But I am sure, as soon as the USK is gone the BPjM would not automatically accept 18+ ratings by the ESRB as binding (the law is only about the USK NOT about other organizations!). That could even mean a return to "This 16+ game is to gory! We ban it!" like it was before 2003.

It would be back to the old situation and that would be MUCH worse than today's situation. So far there was also no game that I would have really disagreed with the USK's rating... How developers and publishers react to such ratings is their own decision. South Park TSoT is a really good example for this - they choose the financially most promising way That is not art, that is commerce.

Nobody is talking about the ESRB. I was talking about PEGI.

 

[tangoprime]

Nobody is talking about the ESRB. I was talking about PEGI.

Speaking of PEGI, just got to this line in the game last night (though in my US copy, they said "ESRB" instead of PEGI). I love some of the references within the game about its being censored. Also, granted I have the full version, I thought it was a pretty hilarious way to make a statement about censorship using the Koala/Europe screens, even if they weren't actually censored and the decision to not include those scenes were made by the publisher to avoid problems.

Spoiler

Skip to 8m 7s.

 

[StHubi]

Nobody is talking about the ESRB. I was talking about PEGI.

Sorry, I also meant PEGI I confused them...

 

[RoonMian]

Nobody is talking about the ESRB. I was talking about PEGI.

Sorry, I also meant PEGI I confused them...

PEGI has a specific official mission from the EU. If Germany stopped frying its special sausage the BPjM would at least in that capacity cease to exist and all its authority would be relegated to the higher, European authority, namely the PEGI. And sure, the USK is fairly easy to understand because it's only about age but to me that's a bit arbitrary. PEGI gives parents a lot more information and is more differentiated. With PEGI parents can take a look at the symbols and easily see why this game is rated such and such. For example they can say "Well fuck, I swear like a one-legged dock whore in front of my child anyway. If swearing is what makes this game PEGI 16 instead PEGI 12 then that's okay, the little fucker is used to worse." Just as an example.

 

[StHubi]

And sure, the USK is fairly easy to understand because it's only about age but to me that's a bit arbitrary. PEGI gives parents a lot more information and is more differentiated. With PEGI parents can take a look at the symbols and easily see why this game is rated such and such. For example they can say "Well fuck, I swear like a one-legged dock whore in front of my child anyway. If swearing is what makes this game PEGI 16 instead PEGI 12 then that's okay, the little fucker is used to worse." Just as an example.

More information is not necessarily easier to understand or interpret. Looking at an age stamp takes seconds but deciding if contents XY is okay for their kids requires more time. In most cases parents just do not want to take this time and imagine how friends and grandparents are overwhelmed by such information. They CANNOT decide if the game is an appropriate present or not based on such information. They would use the age anyway (there is also an age indicator on the PEGI stickers, isn't it?) or just buy something completely different, because they are unsure about the appropriateness.

The information on the PEGI stickers in general is even more useless than just an age sticker in my opinion. There is swearing and then there is SWEARING. Without having played the game it is impossible to say if there is any swearing in a game that parents would deem inappropriate for their kids... That can be applied to all "words" on those stickers.

 

[QuicklyAcross]

Its because video games are the go-to-scapegoat at the moment. It used to be music and then TV but now that we've found a whole new medium to put the blame on that is very popular with young adults, teens and kids today its easy to see how sensationalist media would twist and bend the truth to get ridiculous censor laws passed, or to simply say people become messed up because of video games

 

[RoonMian]

And sure, the USK is fairly easy to understand because it's only about age but to me that's a bit arbitrary. PEGI gives parents a lot more information and is more differentiated. With PEGI parents can take a look at the symbols and easily see why this game is rated such and such. For example they can say "Well fuck, I swear like a one-legged dock whore in front of my child anyway. If swearing is what makes this game PEGI 16 instead PEGI 12 then that's okay, the little fucker is used to worse." Just as an example.

More information is not necessarily easier to understand or interpret. Looking at an age stamp takes seconds but deciding if contents XY is okay for their kids requires more time. In most cases parents just do not want to take this time and imagine how friends and grandparents are overwhelmed by such information. They CANNOT decide if the game is an appropriate present or not based on such information. They would use the age anyway (there is also an age indicator on the PEGI stickers, isn't it?) or just buy something completely different, because they are unsure about the appropriateness.

The information on the PEGI stickers in general is even more useless than just an age sticker in my opinion. There is swearing and then there is SWEARING. Without having played the game it is impossible to say if there is any swearing in a game that parents would deem inappropriate for their kids... That can be applied to all "words" on those stickers.

Well... I think we may fundamentally disagree over how far parents should be involved in the gaming habits of their children.... I find more information for parents better because I expect parents to be very engaged in what their children pass their time with.

 

[StHubi]

I find more information for parents better because I expect parents to be very engaged in what their children pass their time with.

It would be a perfect world if this was the case in every family... But this world is not perfect, naturally

 

[RoonMian]

I find more information for parents better because I expect parents to be very engaged in what their children pass their time with.

It would be a perfect world if this was the case in every family... But this world is not perfect, naturally

Yes... And for the less than desirable parents that don't give a fuck the PEGI stickers still have a plain age reference.

 

[StHubi]

Yes... And for the less than desirable parents that don't give a fuck the PEGI stickers still have a plain age reference.

At least there is something "old" remaining

But the additional information could make engaged parents even more unsure if a game is okay for their children. In some cases the mentioning of contents X will immediately lead them to not buying the game. Perhaps it is justified, but it could also not be... There will be less bought games because of such overflow of (in my opinion) useless information.

In the end there are obviously different opinions about the rating systems. So far I believe that it will probably not change in Germany unless the majority of the German population (that means not only the gamers among us) sees a need for it. That's probably not going happen any time soon.

 

[Denizen]

Finally someone in another industry has taken the words out of every aware gamer's mouth and says what needs to be said, again. It's like no one knows the problems video games face until they try to partake in the creation of one.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

Step 1: Censor myself.
Step 2: Claim Europe censored me.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!

If a publisher feels the need to drop the nuke in regards to self censorship in order to save money then that´s fine but be honest about it. Tell people "Sorry bro, we don´t want to tango with Germany so we´ll just censor it for everyone" don´t make a big fuss acting like you were censored by the moral police until you were actually censored by the moral police.

 

[DeimosMasque]

I think one of the biggest misconceptions of this whole South Park situation is that it was -not- Matt Stone and Trey Parker who wanted the censorship. The self imposed censorship was a choice made by the publisher, Ubisoft. A lot of people are calling out Matt and Trey claiming they are being hypocrites for a decision that was made for them. They didn't have anything to do with the actual censorship made to the console versions of the game in other regions.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

These different standards, of course, led to the censored versions of the game, something that Stone has made peace with to an extent. "As long as we could make a joke out of the fact that they made us cut [content], that was fine."

LOL, wut?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/132690-South-Park-The-Stick-of-Truth-Wasnt-Censored-By-PEGI

That article was posted on March 5th so I am curious as to why you didn't call shenanigans in your article.

The fact that it was cut meant that SOMEONE made them cut it! In this case it was Ubisoft that made them cut it, but they were still made to cut it...

OT: That's kind of... well... dissapointing! On a side note, what did the Austrailian scene say? I know that a lot of games arn't edited at all between Europe releases and Aus releases, so did they change that message scene?

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I feel absolutely disgusted that the game has been censored in Europe. Even if it's only 40 seconds or whatever, it is completely unacceptable.
Sadly, I will also not buy the game here as I will not buy a censored game, not ever.

It completely baffles me how I live in a nation where things like abortion and euthanasia are accepted, where big efforts are made to get people from all sorts of ethnicities to be equal, where controversial content is not commonly censored in any other media, but that we have started to see video games being censored. It really is a double standard.

Even though I believe most of these restrictions are caused by the policies of bigger nations in Europe, I also see quite a few narrow minded fools making appearances in media to demonize video games in Belgium.

It seems that they've forgotten that this here holds true for video games as well:

I bet you already own a game that was censored. Most JRPGs have been censored in one way or another. Even Bravely Default recently had 2 costume design changes and the colour of a monsters innards changed for the US and Europe releases...

 

[Sarge034]

You're confusing Ubisoft's decision to enact content cutting with Matt & Tray's desire to keep the content in while working with Obsidian. M&T were essentially extra hands with Obsidian, helping shape and create Stick of Truth, but Ubisoft's fear of backlash and outrage forced them to cut the content. They, as Matt uses the term, is more towards Ubisoft instead of the rating boards, but Ubisoft's reaction can be a symptom of the rating boards'/governmental bodies' desires to keep interactive media "child friendly".

The fact that it was cut meant that SOMEONE made them cut it! In this case it was Ubisoft that made them cut it, but they were still made to cut it...

OT: That's kind of... well... dissapointing! On a side note, what did the Austrailian scene say? I know that a lot of games arn't edited at all between Europe releases and Aus releases, so did they change that message scene?

I will direct you both to the in game pokes at regional rating that they flat out blamed for the censored content before PEGI made an official statement to the contrary. Now they are just implying heavily that it was the regional rating board's fault. See in article, "I was told that Australia has different standards [for video games]," he said. "They have their own ratings system, as does Europe, so I was told that we had to submit it for ratings and they come back and tell you this will pass, this won't." Where as the PEGI statement revealed that both the uncut and the cut version were submitted for review and both received the same 18+ rating.

So again, there be shenanigans afoot.