Space Marine Director Talks Plot for Would Be Sequels

saintdane05

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An Ultramarine? Going rogue? Did someone turn him into a Soul Drinker or something?
el_kabong said:
EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)
Is this a new Horus Heresy thing? As far as I know, Guilliman wrote the codex.

In the wake of the calamity that was the Horus Heresy, the foundations of the Imperium of Man were laid down. The first High Lords of Terra established the structure by which the Adeptus Terra operated, and described the feudal responsibilities and duties of the planetary lords. One of the most important accomplishments was the reorganisation of the Imperium's fighting forces. This was undertaken almost single-handedly by the Primarch of the Ultramarines Legion, Roboute Guilliman, who with characteristic speed and efficiency codified the structure of the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, and the Space Marines. Of all of his works, the most influential is the Codex Astartes, the great prescriptive tome that lays down the basic organisational and tactical rules for the Space Marine Chapters.
The Horus Heresy had revealed previously unknown genetic weakness in the gene-seed of the Primarchs and Space Marines among the original 20 First Founding Space Marine Legions, weaknesses that left the Legions in question greatly exposed to corruption by the Ruinous Powers of Chaos. This risk was exacerbated by the rapid nature of Space Marine recruitment during the centuries between the start of the Great Crusade in ca. 800.M30 and the outbreak of the Horus Heresy itself in the early 31st Millennium. With the Imperium of Man expanding so quickly across the galaxy during the Great Crusade, the need for fresh recruits in the Space Marine Legions was great. So much so that some Legions had not been as particular in their gene-seed screening practices and recruit selection processes as they should have been. The first objective of Roboute Guilliman in writing the Codex Astartes was to both recognise and purge these weaknesses.

Following the end of the Horus Heresy and the retreat of most of the Traitor Legions into the Eye of Terror, the Codex decreed that the nine remaining Loyalist Legions would be divided into 1,000-man Chapters, the Chapter Masters of which would be directly beholden to the Emperor Himself and no other, not even the Primarchs of their original founding Legions (save in the case of the single Chapter that would remain under each Primarch's control and retain its Legion's original name). No one man in the Imperium could ever again control the superhuman might of an entire Legion of 100,000 or more Space Marines.

The Codex outlined a new, more measured process for Space Marine selection and recruitment and insisted that each newly-created Successor Chapter would tithe 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Terra and the Adeptus Mechanicus for testing and monitoring. It also decreed that only the Emperor Himself, through the auspices of the High Lords of Terra, would ever again be able to order the creation of a new Space Marine Chapter. All gene-seed would be subjected to the greatest genetic scrutiny before being used in the creation of new Space Marine implants. To prevent cross-contamination, the Codex rebuked the practice of sharing gene-seed between different Chapters and, henceforth different Legions with their different genetic make-ups. From then on, each Chapter would have to rely solely on the gene-seed produced in the bodies of its own Space Marines.

On Terra, the Adeptus Terra created genetic repositories to produce and store Space Marine gene-seed. These banks were used to provide all new gene-seed for Space Marines and, to prevent cross-contamination, the genetic material of each of the old Legions was isolated. Henceforth, the new Space Marine Chapters would receive gene-seed only from their own genetic stock. The remaining gene-seed of the Traitor Legions was placed under a time-locked stasis seal, although at the time, many believed these dangerous stocks should be destroyed. By taking direct control of the genetic stocks, the Adepts of Terra could ultimately control the Space Marines. Now they alone had the power to destroy or create Space Marine Chapters at will.

The Codex also further defined the accepted tactical doctrine, Chapter organisation, order of battle, and recruitment practices for a Space Marine Chapter. It explained the different battlefield roles assigned to each squad of Space Marines in a Chapter, defining them as Tactical, Assault or Devastator Squads and assigning different equipment and purpose to each (see the excerpts below).

There were many other topics covered in the Codex and all of them displayed Guilliman's formidable intelligence and hard-won wisdom. The most controversial and yet most important of the topics and decrees made in the Codex Astartes was that the original twenty Space Marine Legions consisting of 10,000 to upwards of 200,000 Astartes or more, were divided into new Chapters, an existing organisational formation found in the old Legiones Astartes. One Chapter kept the name and colours of the original Legion, while the remaining Chapters took on new titles and colours. Most of the old Legions were divided into fewer than five Chapters, but the Ultramarines, being by far the largest of the Legions, were divided many times. The exact number of new Chapters created from the Ultramarines is uncertain: the number listed in the oldest known copy of the Codex Astartes (the so-called Apocrypha of Skaros) gives the total as 23, but does not name them. These Chapters would consist of ten companies of 100 Space Marines each. The breaking of the remaining nine Loyalist Legions into multiple Space Marine Chapters is known to Imperial historians as the Second Founding, which occurred in ca. 021.M31, seven standard years after the death of Horus.
 

FURY_007

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My thoughts/hopes were that he was going to be cleared of his charges and then join the Deathwatch :D.

At any rate we (as in Warhammer 40k fans) need a Rogue Trader or Inquisitor RPG in the style of KOTOR, that would be epic.
 

el_kabong

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jurnag12 said:
el_kabong said:
RatherDull said:
So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.
The Inquisition is ALWAYS right.

EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)
To answer the call for nerd bullets, didn't Roboute Gulliman, the Primarch of the Ultramarines, write it?

And meant it exactly as Titus sees it in the game, but which was twisted over the years into the absolute dogma of Space Marine tactics?
Well, as a player who uses Alpha Legion on the table-top, I have my own tinfoil-hat theories on that particular piece of history. Some facts about the Ultramarines and Alpha Legion.

1. Alpha Legion actually has two primarchs who are twins, Alpharius and Omegon. They kept their homeworld and each other a secret from the Imperium (sort of like The Prestige). While tactical geniuses, they were not very skilled in hand-to-hand and preferred bullets to solve their combat.

2. In the span of time after the Horus Heresy (notorious because of the shoddy records kept during the time), the Ultramarines went to battle with Alpha Legion, where Guilliman killed Alpharius in a duel. Despite losing their primarch, the Alpha Legion were still able to defeat the Ultramarines.

3. Guilliman and the Ultramarines are not convinced that they actually killed Alpharius, as it's been revealed that Alpha Legion can ingest their primarch's blood to become genetically identical for periods of time (fooling even space marine apothecaries).

4. In the same period, but before his "death", Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes, a semi-rigid doctrine that not only dictated combat doctrine, but also split all legions into smaller, weaker units. The expressed purpose was to prevent one chapter from becoming too powerful and causing another civil war.

5. Post-heresy, Alpha Legion work to infiltrate loyalist marine chapters, such traitors revealing themselves at crucial moments.

6. Members of each space marine legion tend to show the same traits as their founding primarchs, though reduced in some way.

Now, here's where the extrapolation occurs. The story of the duel is a falsity. While Alpharius may have provoked Guilliman into the open with promises of an honorable duel, such action would only have been a deception to overwhelm the primarch (Alpharius was known for being dishonorable and Guilliman, honorable to a fault). Omegon, possessing a more powerful version of the genetic manipulation shown amongst other Alpha Legion, assumes the identity of Guilliman. He joins the ranks of the Ultramarines (leading them to an assured Alpha Legion victory). He then writes the Codex Astartes in an attempt to weaken the power of the loyalist legions and to blind them with rigid doctrine, turning the Ultramarines upside-down from the inside. Tinfoil-hat clincher: when you turn the Ultramarine symbol upside-down...it's an Omega.
 

TekMoney

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Considering how tight a handle on their IP Games Workshop maintains. They would never have let this story happen.
 

el_kabong

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saintdane05 said:
An Ultramarine? Going rogue? Did someone turn him into a Soul Drinker or something?
el_kabong said:
EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)
Is this a new Horus Heresy thing? As far as I know, Guilliman wrote the codex.
It's not canon. Just my crazy fan theory (outlined in a different response)...that makes crazy levels of sense. Not like GW will progress the story to even potentially reveal these sorts of things to prove me wrong.
 

CD-R

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It's a ashame. I really enjoyed Space MArine. Personally I think they should make a Gorka Morka game and get Tim Schafer's Double Fine studio to do it.
 

Jynthor

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Space Marine while far from perfect, was a very enjoyable 40K game. Despite having Ultrasmurfs.
It's a real shame there won't be any sequels, it actually sounds very interesting.
 

Haakmed

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I am somewhat sad that is the story arc he wanted to go with. Basically Titus is a traitor after saying all that stuff about loyalty at the end? Betraying his chapter to form a renegade warband for revenge for being wronged... That does not sound like the character they developed in the game at all.
 

KDR_11k

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RatherDull said:
So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.
He disobeys the Codex, he shows behavior entirely uncommon among his chapter and he is resistant to the Warp. At the end of Space Marine I thought it was pretty clear that the guy was business for the Inquisition.

Modern morality doesn't work in 40k due to the Warp, if you give an inch the Warp will take a whole mile and corrupt you. I actually like that because it should prevent Hollywood morality (where characters in any setting exhibit modern morality no matter how little sense that makes in their setting like an anti-racist, pro-gay bishop in the middle ages or something) but if they'd actually gotten this past GW it would be pretty bad. If he goes rogue and "serves the Emperor in his own way" he should turn into a Chaos Space Marine because the belief that you can use any means to reach your goal is one of the paths to Chaos.
 

Boris Goodenough

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KDR_11k said:
He disobeys the Codex, he shows behavior entirely uncommon among his chapter and he is resistant to the Warp. At the end of Space Marine I thought it was pretty clear that the guy was business for the Inquisition.

Modern morality doesn't work in 40k due to the Warp, if you give an inch the Warp will take a whole mile and corrupt you. I actually like that because it should prevent Hollywood morality (where characters in any setting exhibit modern morality no matter how little sense that makes in their setting like an anti-racist, pro-gay bishop in the middle ages or something) but if they'd actually gotten this past GW it would be pretty bad. If he goes rogue and "serves the Emperor in his own way" he should turn into a Chaos Space Marine because the belief that you can use any means to reach your goal is one of the paths to Chaos.
Or maybe he is being given power by the Emperor in the Warp, or another Warp god?
 

DarkhoIlow

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I really enjoyed Space Marine actually and was looking forward to any sequels but it seems that is no longer an option.

I would of liked someone that bought Relic to buy the license and invest some money to make a sequel. Eh..me and my hopes for another action WH40k game (preferably a Space Marine sequel) are all in vain.
 

Bostur

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Space Marine had a plot? I didn't notice I was too busy killing greenskins.

The shooty, chainswordy gameplay was some of the best I've seen in a long time, it was so good it didn't need a plot. If someone makes a sequel I don't care what kind of plot they make up, as long as they make the combat equally satisfying.
 

Neverhoodian

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So it would have basically been a mish-mash of The Ultramarines Omnibus and the Soul Drinkers novels? Eh, seems decent enough. Emperor knows the narrative hasn't been the strong point of most WH40k games anyway:

 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Morti said:
I would really like another Space Marine game, but I'm having a hard time seeing how that plot could fit into W40K lore...
even thinking about going rogue is a one way ticket to "Exterminate on Site" with the Inquisition, especially with the Astartes, the "Emperors Finest" have an image to maintain afterall. And cleaning house with the Ultramarines? The post children of the Imperium? That strikes me as something far too significant to get away with in a third party game, maybe if they'd created their own chapter (or just stuck with the Blood Ravens, more than enough history and speculation with them concerning loyalties)/
The major themes the director wished to do have already been done in 40k lore, The Soul Drinker series concerns an entire chapter that questions whether or not the Imperium is what the Emperor wanted while dancing on a tightrope between outright Chaos (the chapter nearly doesn't make it and gets hit by mutations as well).

The Ultramarines even have their rogues with the book series about one of their company captains disobeying the Codex Astartes and his subsequent punishment quest.

The thing with 40k lore, its rather mutable.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines_(Novel_Series)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Soul_Drinkers_Omnibus

Too bad we won't see it happen, The Ultrasmurfs need some desperate re-characterisation after Matt Ward's ham-handedness.
 

karloss01

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I was expecting him to become an inquisitorial henchman and travel the galaxy with the inquisitor doing special ops missions similar to the Death Watch.
 

Wafflemarine

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That plot would have seriously made me pissed. Sure it is not unheard of Space Marines going rogue but seriously Ultramarines are about as rigid and loyal a Space Marine chapter can get. I would have preferred it be be more like the Ultramarine novel series where after being booted from the chapter he would have to take a Death quest or whatever it was called. Basically a suicidal mission and if you complete it you can come back.

Almost thought they were going to go this route after beating the game.

The part about being suspected of taint and being taken by the inquisition is a unbelievable thing. No Space Marine chapter would allow the Inquisition to take one of their own prisoner, punishment would be up to the chapter leaders to decide. Chapters have been known to attack Inquisitors who try to take one of their own even if it was justified.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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el_kabong said:
Now, here's where the extrapolation occurs. The story of the duel is a falsity. While Alpharius may have provoked Guilliman into the open with promises of an honorable duel, such action would only have been a deception to overwhelm the primarch (Alpharius was known for being dishonorable and Guilliman, honorable to a fault). Omegon, possessing a more powerful version of the genetic manipulation shown amongst other Alpha Legion, assumes the identity of Guilliman. He joins the ranks of the Ultramarines (leading them to an assured Alpha Legion victory). He then writes the Codex Astartes in an attempt to weaken the power of the loyalist legions and to blind them with rigid doctrine, turning the Ultramarines upside-down from the inside. Tinfoil-hat clincher: when you turn the Ultramarine symbol upside-down...it's an Omega.
It's a nice theory, but Matt Ward would never allowed his beloved Ultrasmurfs to be so besmirched.

While Space Marine appears to be down for the count, at least we have Space Hulk to look forward to. Ahh who am I kidding, it won't be as good.