Space Marine Director Talks Plot for Would Be Sequels
- Thread starter BlameTheWizards
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Well, as a player who uses Alpha Legion on the table-top, I have my own tinfoil-hat theories on that particular piece of history. Some facts about the Ultramarines and Alpha Legion.jurnag12 said:
1. Alpha Legion actually has two primarchs who are twins, Alpharius and Omegon. They kept their homeworld and each other a secret from the Imperium (sort of like The Prestige). While tactical geniuses, they were not very skilled in hand-to-hand and preferred bullets to solve their combat.
2. In the span of time after the Horus Heresy (notorious because of the shoddy records kept during the time), the Ultramarines went to battle with Alpha Legion, where Guilliman killed Alpharius in a duel. Despite losing their primarch, the Alpha Legion were still able to defeat the Ultramarines.
3. Guilliman and the Ultramarines are not convinced that they actually killed Alpharius, as it's been revealed that Alpha Legion can ingest their primarch's blood to become genetically identical for periods of time (fooling even space marine apothecaries).
4. In the same period, but before his "death", Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes, a semi-rigid doctrine that not only dictated combat doctrine, but also split all legions into smaller, weaker units. The expressed purpose was to prevent one chapter from becoming too powerful and causing another civil war.
5. Post-heresy, Alpha Legion work to infiltrate loyalist marine chapters, such traitors revealing themselves at crucial moments.
6. Members of each space marine legion tend to show the same traits as their founding primarchs, though reduced in some way.
Now, here's where the extrapolation occurs. The story of the duel is a falsity. While Alpharius may have provoked Guilliman into the open with promises of an honorable duel, such action would only have been a deception to overwhelm the primarch (Alpharius was known for being dishonorable and Guilliman, honorable to a fault). Omegon, possessing a more powerful version of the genetic manipulation shown amongst other Alpha Legion, assumes the identity of Guilliman. He joins the ranks of the Ultramarines (leading them to an assured Alpha Legion victory). He then writes the Codex Astartes in an attempt to weaken the power of the loyalist legions and to blind them with rigid doctrine, turning the Ultramarines upside-down from the inside. Tinfoil-hat clincher: when you turn the Ultramarine symbol upside-down...it's an Omega.
I am somewhat sad that is the story arc he wanted to go with. Basically Titus is a traitor after saying all that stuff about loyalty at the end? Betraying his chapter to form a renegade warband for revenge for being wronged... That does not sound like the character they developed in the game at all.
He disobeys the Codex, he shows behavior entirely uncommon among his chapter and he is resistant to the Warp. At the end of Space Marine I thought it was pretty clear that the guy was business for the Inquisition.RatherDull said:
Modern morality doesn't work in 40k due to the Warp, if you give an inch the Warp will take a whole mile and corrupt you. I actually like that because it should prevent Hollywood morality (where characters in any setting exhibit modern morality no matter how little sense that makes in their setting like an anti-racist, pro-gay bishop in the middle ages or something) but if they'd actually gotten this past GW it would be pretty bad. If he goes rogue and "serves the Emperor in his own way" he should turn into a Chaos Space Marine because the belief that you can use any means to reach your goal is one of the paths to Chaos.
I really enjoyed Space Marine actually and was looking forward to any sequels but it seems that is no longer an option.
I would of liked someone that bought Relic to buy the license and invest some money to make a sequel. Eh..me and my hopes for another action WH40k game (preferably a Space Marine sequel) are all in vain.
I would of liked someone that bought Relic to buy the license and invest some money to make a sequel. Eh..me and my hopes for another action WH40k game (preferably a Space Marine sequel) are all in vain.
Space Marine had a plot? I didn't notice I was too busy killing greenskins.
The shooty, chainswordy gameplay was some of the best I've seen in a long time, it was so good it didn't need a plot. If someone makes a sequel I don't care what kind of plot they make up, as long as they make the combat equally satisfying.
The shooty, chainswordy gameplay was some of the best I've seen in a long time, it was so good it didn't need a plot. If someone makes a sequel I don't care what kind of plot they make up, as long as they make the combat equally satisfying.
So it would have basically been a mish-mash of The Ultramarines Omnibus and the Soul Drinkers novels? Eh, seems decent enough. Emperor knows the narrative hasn't been the strong point of most WH40k games anyway:
The major themes the director wished to do have already been done in 40k lore, The Soul Drinker series concerns an entire chapter that questions whether or not the Imperium is what the Emperor wanted while dancing on a tightrope between outright Chaos (the chapter nearly doesn't make it and gets hit by mutations as well).Morti said:
The Ultramarines even have their rogues with the book series about one of their company captains disobeying the Codex Astartes and his subsequent punishment quest.
The thing with 40k lore, its rather mutable.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines_(Novel_Series)
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Soul_Drinkers_Omnibus
Too bad we won't see it happen, The Ultrasmurfs need some desperate re-characterisation after Matt Ward's ham-handedness.
That plot would have seriously made me pissed. Sure it is not unheard of Space Marines going rogue but seriously Ultramarines are about as rigid and loyal a Space Marine chapter can get. I would have preferred it be be more like the Ultramarine novel series where after being booted from the chapter he would have to take a Death quest or whatever it was called. Basically a suicidal mission and if you complete it you can come back.
Almost thought they were going to go this route after beating the game.
The part about being suspected of taint and being taken by the inquisition is a unbelievable thing. No Space Marine chapter would allow the Inquisition to take one of their own prisoner, punishment would be up to the chapter leaders to decide. Chapters have been known to attack Inquisitors who try to take one of their own even if it was justified.
Almost thought they were going to go this route after beating the game.
The part about being suspected of taint and being taken by the inquisition is a unbelievable thing. No Space Marine chapter would allow the Inquisition to take one of their own prisoner, punishment would be up to the chapter leaders to decide. Chapters have been known to attack Inquisitors who try to take one of their own even if it was justified.
It's a nice theory, but Matt Ward would never allowed his beloved Ultrasmurfs to be so besmirched.el_kabong said:
While Space Marine appears to be down for the count, at least we have Space Hulk to look forward to. Ahh who am I kidding, it won't be as good.
Except that wasn't how the fight between Guilliman and Alpharius happened. There was no promise of an honourable duel. The Alpha Legion deplyed to a planet, provoking the Ultramarines to attack them. Guilliman broke with his normal combat doctrine and hit their command centre with a risky aerial surprise assault (around 2000 Ultramrines), hoping for a decapitation strike. While the plan worked, with the Alpha Legion HQ being wiped out, losing the Primarch didn't cripple the Alpha Legion like Guilliman expected. Instead they continued to fight and eventually forced the Ultramrines to withdraw. But a significant chunk of that 2000 strong Ultramrine force survived, and were witness to the death of Alpharius at Guilliman's hands. This is from the Alpha Legion Index Astartes article in White Dwarf, if you were wondering about source.el_kabong said:
Which was their heraldry before the Heresy, so nope.
Going Rogue?!?!
When a Space Marine "goes rogue" it usually involves mutations and accessorizing with eight pointed stars. A far more likely scenario is that Titus rots in a holding cell until the Inquisition figures out they need a space marine immune to the warp for a suicide mission. They let Titus out with a leash (I'm guess a plot device implanted bomb wielded by an inquisitor support character, female if I had to be specific)and tell him to clean up the mess. In the course of surviving Titus makes a few friends in the inquisition and MAYBE they request a founding for a new chapter. After all its not like its the first time a chapter has been in bed with the Inquisition since their founding (Grey Knights, Exorcists).
When a Space Marine "goes rogue" it usually involves mutations and accessorizing with eight pointed stars. A far more likely scenario is that Titus rots in a holding cell until the Inquisition figures out they need a space marine immune to the warp for a suicide mission. They let Titus out with a leash (I'm guess a plot device implanted bomb wielded by an inquisitor support character, female if I had to be specific)and tell him to clean up the mess. In the course of surviving Titus makes a few friends in the inquisition and MAYBE they request a founding for a new chapter. After all its not like its the first time a chapter has been in bed with the Inquisition since their founding (Grey Knights, Exorcists).