Space sim without dogfights?

[Hagi]

I've long been rather interested in the space sim genre.

I love sci-fi, I love spaceships, I love exploring, I love in-game economies, love the idea of making my own way on my own spaceship through a vast galaxy.

Except there's one problem. I'm not that great at aiming and I'm especially horrible at dogfights. Not to mention I honestly don't enjoy them at all. I much prefer more tactical and strategic combat, where it's much more about managing power, weapons, targets etc. without any twitch elements.

So yeah, not really being all that familiar with the genre at all I'm wondering if there exists something like that. A space sim where I don't have to engage in dogfights. Maybe they're not there at all. Maybe there's NPC I can hire to do them for me. Maybe all that fancy future tech actually includes fire-control systems like the ones we invented around a 100 years ago.

To note: I've played and hugely enjoyed EvE online. Looking for something single-player though.

 

[Zontar]

I'd recommend the X game series, particularly X3: Reunion and X3: Terran conflict. While one can jump into a fighter and start shooting at things (provided you can afford it) one can also go a whole playthrough (meaning whenever you either die without having saved or choose to stop playing) without entering combat due to the exploration and trade aspects of the game (the tagline is: "Fight. Trade. Build. Think." for a reason).

I know that when I've played I've spent whole weeks worth of gametime simply trading between stations while building my own, and the next thing I know I'm sitting in the command chair of a carrier telling wings of A.I. controlled fighters what to attack while my frigates and capital ships take out the big guns.

From what it sounds like you're looking for, it seems right up your ally (plus it has a brutal learning curb like EvE, though not as brutal as that infamous MMO). It's the closest thing there is to a single player version of EvE I've ever seen, though I'll admit I haven't tried Elite: Dangerous.

 

[Laughing Man]

KSP (Kerbel Space Program) you don't get much closer to an actual space sim than that, no weapons what so ever (unless you add them via mods)

 

[Jandau]

Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, Star Trek: Bridge Commander, though they aren't free-roam, but rather mission based.

 

[LordLundar]

If you're game for multiplay only, the game Dreadnought is in development. It sounds right up your alley.

 

[Fractral]

Nexus: The Jupiter Incident sounds right up your street. You control a small fleet of Frigate sized ships or larger over a 20-odd mission campaign. Fights are all about managing weapon usage, power distribution and positioning of your ships as opposed to twitch based dogfighting. It's also got a system whereby you customize the components on your ships, though there's not often much choice.
It's worth mentioning that while it's not especially hard it has (sort of) permadeath, so if you lose a ship and it's crew can't evacuate in time that ship is gone for good. This is obviously fairly frustrating, especially when said ship is lost because of a bullshit one-hit-kill missile that you can't shoot down.

 

[LetalisK]

I'd recommend the X game series, particularly X3: Reunion and X3: Terran conflict. While one can jump into a fighter and start shooting at things (provided you can afford it) one can also go a whole playthrough (meaning whenever you either die without having saved or choose to stop playing) without entering combat due to the exploration and trade aspects of the game (the tagline is: "Fight. Trade. Build. Think." for a reason).

I know that when I've played I've spent whole weeks worth of gametime simply trading between stations while building my own, and the next thing I know I'm sitting in the command chair of a carrier telling wings of A.I. controlled fighters what to attack while my frigates and capital ships take out the big guns.

From what it sounds like you're looking for, it seems right up your ally (plus it has a brutal learning curb like EvE, though not as brutal as that infamous MMO). It's the closest thing there is to a single player version of EvE I've ever seen, though I'll admit I haven't tried Elite: Dangerous.

Question about X3. How does it compare to X1 and X2? I tried those two and found the control schemes frustrating and the learning curve more like a learning death dive. I ended up quitting less than an hour into each.

 

[Cowabungaa]

There's of course FTL, that's a fun, cheap little space game. Not exactly sim-ish, but it doesn't have dogfights and it's complex enough I guess.

 

[shrekfan246]

I know you said you're looking for single-player, but you could give Star Trek Online a go. It's mostly playable as a single-player-style game as there's a lot of story content, and the space combat is truly one of its highlights. You can set all of your ship weapons to a single hotkey that auto-attacks, and you don't have to manually aim (though you do have to manually rotate and fly your ship around so that your weapon firing arcs will be in the proper positions). You can hire bridge officers who level up and get all of their own abilities to help you in combat, and you can juggle your power balance levels around a bit between your shields (I don't recall if you manage power to the engines or weapons like some other games do).

Unfortunately the ground combat stuff is just a standard third-person shooter affair, but it's serviceable as well.

Otherwise, how badly do you want to stick to "space sim"? Most of the, er, "classic"-styled space sims tend to just have small ships and dogfights, which is something that has frustrated me for a little while now because I'd much rather captain a battleship than fly around in a dinky fighter. But if you start looking into space-based strategy games... well, then there's Homeworld, Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, Sins of a Solar Empire, Endless Space, and the Galactic Civilizations series. The first three are real-time strategy (SoaSE has a 4X bend to it as well) while the latter two are turn-based 4X games. Nexus, as previously mentioned in the thread, is probably the most tactical of any of those, and both it and Homeworld are story-driven as well.

I'd give a tentative recommendation to Starpoint Gemini 2 as well. It is a more classically-styled space sim very similar to an older game called Freelancer, but it allows you to auto-fire your weapons on nearby enemies. There is the ability to swap your power levels between shields, engines, and weapons as well, though in the early game it's not something you have to mess with very often and I'm not far enough in it myself to know whether that'll become a big part of the game later. It's also one of the only space sims I've been able to find that allows you the potential to captain ships larger than frigates. EDIT: I suppose the X series might as well, and since you've played EVE you should be able to get past the horrific learning curve that franchise has, but I don't know if the combat it does have would be up your alley. Then again, I've been defeated by the franchise's control schemes every time I've attempted to play and it is apparently relatively friendly to playing without engaging in combat. Word of warning, X Rebirth, the latest game in the franchise, was apparently a disaster at launch.

 

[Fractral]

Question about X3. How does it compare to X1 and X2? I tried those two and found the control schemes frustrating and the learning curve more like a learning death dive. I ended up quitting less than an hour into each.

X3:Reunion is basically just X2 with a shinier coat of paint. The big gameplay improvements came in Terran Conflict and Albion Prelude, the two standalone expansions.
TC improved the menus quite a bit, though they're still not great. Control wise the only change I can think of is that AP allows you to play with a gamepad (although I would advise against it); otherwise both games made it a lot easier to issue commands. You have to learn what they all are, and where to find them, but once you've got that down it's simple. I reccomend learning the shortcut keys to save scrolling.
Neither game has a tutorial as such beyond a 'flight school' that teaches you, well, how to fly. What TC and AP do better is in their starts; both have starts that drop you straight into the main story questline, and completing said questline showers you with money and free ships while teaching you some more of the basics. Which brings me on to what is, in my opinion, the biggest improvement: the addition of a quest journal that allows you to track the missions you've been given, as in an RPG like Skyrim. If you were put off the main story in X2 by the fact that it's very easy to lose track of it, TC and AP fix that for you.
So yeah, I'd reccomend either TC or AP to you (probably TC if you plan on playing both, otherwise AP). Pick the Terran Commander start in TC or the Argon Peacekeeper start in AP, since they drop you into the main quests of both games and start you with an interceptor (TC) or a heavy fighter (AP).

 

[rcs619]

I really wish there were more fleet-level space games out there. I get it, starfighters are awesome and WWII in space, with lasers, can be super cool. I know I enjoy those a lot myself... But, I also want to see big fleets rolling through the black, engaging with missile and projectile vollies over the huge distances of space.

There really just aren't many of those. Homeworld comes close, and the original Sword of the Stars was fun, but still.

That's yet another reason why I'm rooting for the upcoming Honor Harrington movie to be a success. Space combat in that franchise is fought at ranges of several million kilometers with huge missile vollies, and electronic warfare and point defense are the primary types of defenses. You could make a pretty cool RTS around that sort of combat. At the very least, that setting is perfect for a 4X game. Given the fact that the only Honor Harrington game released so far has been a shitty mobile game though, I dunno. My hopes are not high.

But a man can dream D:

 

[fix-the-spade]

I love sci-fi, I love spaceships, I love exploring, I love in-game economies, love the idea of making my own way on my own spaceship through a vast galaxy.

Elite: Dangerous can be this, mostly.

Inside populated space piracy and fighting happens, but for the most part you can play smart and run away (boost away, get clearance and charge that hyper drive). Trading and exploration are completely viable ways to progress in the game and have separate rankings from combat.

Last week I completed a 44day trip (cut short by ship damage) that covered 70'000 light years, took in Sagittarius A* and Great Annihilator and would have hit the opposite outer rim of the galaxy had I not got and damaged the ship in the gravity well of a white dwarf and had to turn back. I can't think of any other game beyond (maybe) EVE that lets you do stuff like that.

In that time I saw three other players, all fellow explorers and all friendly.

 

[NeutralDrow]

The thing that came immediately to my mind was Space Engineers, since it's mostly about the construction, and dogfighting is something you really have to go out of your way if you want to engage in it...but it's not really an economics sim, you're totally alone unless you do multiplayer, and I think procedurally generated open space was just recently added.

 

[Hagi]

Thanks for all the advice, greatly appreciated.

Starpoint Gemini 2 seems to be on sale right this moment so I reckon I'll probably buy that one at least. The fire at will feature does seem to be what I'm looking for.

X3 might be an even better fit perhaps. Though it's got me doubting in regards to X: Rebirth. I know it was apparently utter shite at launch but recent reviews are quite positive, some even calling it better than X3 at the moment. Anyone have experience with both games recently?

Elite: Dangerous looks quite cool as well I think, might give that a try as well.

Nexus - The Jupiter and Star Trek Online look interesting enough but seem to lack the open-world roaming and economic aspects I believe?

 

[Zontar]

X3 might be an even better fit perhaps. Though it's got me doubting in regards to X: Rebirth. I know it was apparently utter shite at launch but recent reviews are quite positive, some even calling it better than X3 at the moment. Anyone have experience with both games recently?

Yes, I do, and for the love of god do NOT touch X: Rebirth, it nearly killed the studio, it DID kill the IP, and despite the fact that it is now playable and functional it is still a terrible game, with retroactive reviews only saying it's good because it's an improvement over being unplayable and, even for some time after launch, impossible to finish the main storyline.

Just stick with the X3 games. Better deal for your money, you can buy all three for less then X: Rebirth and unlike Rebirth you'll actually play the thing enough to get your money's worth out of it (I know I sure have *caugh* 600 hours *cough*)

 

[LordDPS]

There's Rouge Galaxy. It's a Firefly inspired game with very arcade style action. You're in charge of a lumbering smuggler's vessal and the combat is about positioning more than dogfighting. Plus the music and game content is very evocative of Firefly. Also it helps that combat only takes place along a 2d axis so aiming isn't as much of a problem.

 

[sturryz]

I've long been rather interested in the space sim genre.

I love sci-fi, I love spaceships, I love exploring, I love in-game economies, love the idea of making my own way on my own spaceship through a vast galaxy.

Except there's one problem. I'm not that great at aiming and I'm especially horrible at dogfights. Not to mention I honestly don't enjoy them at all. I much prefer more tactical and strategic combat, where it's much more about managing power, weapons, targets etc. without any twitch elements.

So yeah, not really being all that familiar with the genre at all I'm wondering if there exists something like that. A space sim where I don't have to engage in dogfights. Maybe they're not there at all. Maybe there's NPC I can hire to do them for me. Maybe all that fancy future tech actually includes fire-control systems like the ones we invented around a 100 years ago.

To note: I've played and hugely enjoyed EvE online. Looking for something single-player though.

For shame, no one has mention Independence War

http://www.gog.com/game/independence_war_deluxe

It's pretty much the premier non-dogfighting space sim ever made, it's more about managing your ship and crew then 420 noscopeing. it's pretty complex though.

 

[TranshumanistG]

You might want to try 3000 AD's Battlecruiser Millenium. I don't remember about automatic fire, but am pretty sure that you could let autopilot take care of target tracking, in fact you could use autopilot in any of the vehicles, excluding on-foot and in EVA, of course. There's still some easier stuff to do during space battles like redistributing power and issuing orders to fighter craft. And if you want to avoid them all together there's still ground battles where you issue orders to troops, ground vehicles and aircraft in a pseudo-RTS way. And apart from fighting there's still trading and mining that can be done.

Too bad that the execution is kinda lacking overall and there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to do any of that.

 

[shrekfan246]

Nexus - The Jupiter and Star Trek Online look interesting enough but seem to lack the open-world roaming and economic aspects I believe?

Yeah, unfortunately they're both pretty combat-focused, so if you really want something that doesn't put emphasis on combat at all then they might not fit the bill for this particular craving. I'd recommend them as solid space games anyway, but, you know.

Nexus is mission-based, but Star Trek Online is... well, an MMO. If you want a seamless universe, it doesn't have that, but the universe map is pretty free to roam from an early point and there are plenty of random events or secondary quests you can embark on. Most of the mission maps both on foot and in ships tend to be very large, as well.

EDIT: That having been said, Star Trek Online does have a little management side-thing that is pretty divorced from the rest of the game. You get Duty Officers that you can send off on missions sort of like Away Teams, and they'll gather you experience and resources. They all have their own stats and abilities and rarity just like Bridge Officers or equipment, and they all specialize in different fields (such as Medical, Engineering, etc.). It's not terribly complex or time-consuming (well, Duty Officers complete their missions in real-time, because it's one of the ways they keep you logging back in every day), but it's a fun little extra bit you can mess with.

 

[Lightspeaker]

Its not actually OUT and there's been not a lot of updates on it since their failed kickstarter but you might want to sign up to the mailing list for Flagship:
http://flagshipgame.com/

It looks amazing in my opinion and apparently they're still going ahead with it, it just means development is going to be incredibly slow. Apparently they want an alpha form of it out by the end of the year so there's always hope.