Spaming fireballs, valid tactic or cheapness incarnate?

[krazykidd]

This question of course is intended for fighting games, more accurately multiplayer . Be it online or against a buddy. So in your humble opinion , is spaming fire balls ( or any kind of projectile ) a valid tactic or is it just cheap?( use any fighting game as an example)

Now i ask this because i have started playing UMvC3 , and my team consists of Morrigan, X-23 and Hulk , and basically what i do is i start with morrigan , put distance between me and my opponent ( thanks to hulks assist ) and use morrigans super ( what it does is make a copy of myself on the opposite side of my opponent and mirrors my moves ) and spam the hell out of my fireballs ( which also drains the opponents super meter ). I put a lot of thought into this , although i am spaming my fireballs from both ends of the sceen due to my super), i also use hulks assist to keep the opponent at bay, and keep the ground covered preventing an opponent from approching me from the ground, and x-23 assist keeping over head attacks at bay with her uppercut assist ( all the while spaming by fireballs and my mirror super).

Now even though i did make a strategy revolving around spaming fireballs and i'm not just spaming thrm for the sake of spaming, i can't help but feel like it's cheap and heres why: i was playing online today and i completly perfected a guy . Now this guy in turn sent me a message on xbox live saying " sorry i am a newb xD" . I couldn't know beforehand he was a newb since i only select opponents of my rank. But i did feel kind of bad , especially since i got a perfect on him ( and he was trying to hit me ).

So in you opinion , is my strategy cheap, or all is fair in love and war? Also what do you think of people that spam fireballs in a fighting game?


Edit: this tactic has won me several online matches and i beat the offline arcade mode on the hardest difficulty doing this.

 

[hazabaza1]

Sounds like a bit of a dick move to be honest. Still, I've never played the game, so I'm not sure how easy it is to counter that strategy. If it's a fairly simple one to fight against then I guess it'l all be fine, but if everyone seems to hate it, probably a dick move.

 

[hoboman29]

Its cheap if you ask me it shows that all your looking for is an easy win. But to all of the "zoners" reading this there are acceptable cases such as a last resort or its not just hadouken x999999999

 

[Nalbis]

Throwing in fireballs or whatever is legit, in SF4AE when playing as Ryu I'll use a Hadouken to bridge the gap between me and my opponent until I can get in close enough to land a few nice combos and then I'll juggle my opponent in the corner. If you watch any EVO video you'll see multiple fireball spams and juggling, and I personally consider it skill, the only people who will ***** are those who can't do it (insert my friends here).

 

[Tiamattt]

I think one of the negative stereotypes is any non-newbie can fireball spam, it's like in the skill level right about button mashing. And just like button mashing on certain skill levels it will get you wins since they move fast,deals good damage,slows down your opponent and you don't really get punished for it until you reach players of higher tier. Not to mention hearing hadoken(or in this case Soul Fist) over and over and over again gets old quick.

 

[krazykidd]

Sounds like a bit of a dick move to be honest. Still, I've never played the game, so I'm not sure how easy it is to counter that strategy. If it's a fairly simple one to fight against then I guess it'l all be fine, but if everyone seems to hate it, probably a dick move.

I haven't seen anyone do that and i can't really tell if people hate it . I mean i do have other moves that i do use in case people break down my defenses, and i have lost doing that. That being said , even if morrigan dies , i can still play woth hulk and x-23 good enough to keep me in the game. But i do see why it would seem dickish and thats y i asked this question, like i said i don't spam just for the sake of spaming i actually put a lot of thought into it .

Its cheap if you ask me it shows that all your looking for is an easy win. But to all of the "zoners" reading this there are acceptable cases such as a last resort or its not just hadouken x999999999

It's not really an easy win , i have lost doing that , but i see what you mean . Then again in a game like this people tend to use the same combos that do max damage, especially with team awsomness ( read: wesker , dante , virgil ). But i do see what you mean , i don't do it to be a dick but i put thought into it hoping that would make it less bad , but i guess i was wrong . That being said i could not spam it and still be able to fight properly , so i should prolly tone it down i guess.

 

[hoboman29]

Sounds like a bit of a dick move to be honest. Still, I've never played the game, so I'm not sure how easy it is to counter that strategy. If it's a fairly simple one to fight against then I guess it'l all be fine, but if everyone seems to hate it, probably a dick move.

I haven't seen anyone do that and i can't really tell if people hate it . I mean i do have other moves that i do use in case people break down my defenses, and i have lost doing that. That being said , even if morrigan dies , i can still play woth hulk and x-23 good enough to keep me in the game. But i do see why it would seem dickish and thats y i asked this question, like i said i don't spam just for the sake of spaming i actually put a lot of thought into it .

Its cheap if you ask me it shows that all your looking for is an easy win. But to all of the "zoners" reading this there are acceptable cases such as a last resort or its not just hadouken x999999999

It's not really an easy win , i have lost doing that , but i see what you mean . Then again in a game like this people tend to use the same combos that do max damage, especially with team awsomness ( read: wesker , dante , virgil ). But i do see what you mean , i don't do it to be a dick but i put thought into it hoping that would make it less bad , but i guess i was wrong . That being said i could not spam it and still be able to fight properly , so i should prolly tone it down i guess.

At least you're not doing it under the guise of zoning and you don't want to be an asshole so props to you.

 

[Bad Jim]

Cheapness is a stupid concept. They may say that playing for the win all the time isn't "fun", but if you are constantly having to tiptoe around any tactic that actually works then how much fun are you really having?

It's usually the cry of a noob who is getting completely destroyed by another player. But this is usually because the other player is just far better in general. If the other player agrees not to spam fireballs, he will still win, just with different tactics. The only way to beat that player is to improve at the game.

What the noob should do is find out how to beat fireball spam. It is ultimately far more fun to just kick someone's ass when they try predictable tactics like that. It's also more fun for the opponent, who gets a real fight, not some noob whining about the simplest of tactics.

Also, remember your "cheap" wins will raise your ranking and the matchmaking system will put you up against players who can deal with it. So you won't have to feel bad about it for long.

 

[dyre]

Nah, fireballs suck. If they make their reflex save (or have evasion), it does almost no damage.

I mean, uh, fireballs in a fighting game? Haven't played the game you speak of, so I couldn't really say. But generally, you should be able to recognize if the devs balanced a game poorly in a way that allows you to exploit an easy way to kill enemies. So basically, decide for yourself if it's unfair or not

Cheapness is a stupid concept. They may say that playing for the win all the time isn't "fun", but if you are constantly having to tiptoe around any tactic that actually works then how much fun are you really having?

It's usually the cry of a noob who is getting completely destroyed by another player. But this is usually because the other player is just far better in general. If the other player agrees not to spam fireballs, he will still win, just with different tactics. The only way to beat that player is to improve at the game.

What the noob should do is find out how to beat fireball spam. It is ultimately far more fun to just kick someone's ass when they try predictable tactics like that. It's also more fun for the opponent, who gets a real fight, not some noob whining about the simplest of tactics.

Also, remember your "cheap" wins will raise your ranking and the matchmaking system will put you up against players who can deal with it. So you won't have to feel bad about it for long.

Someone's a little bitter...

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Nah, fireballs suck. If they make their reflex save (or have evasion), it does almost no damage.

I mean, uh, fireballs in a fighting game? Haven't played the game you speak of, so I couldn't really say. But generally, you should be able to recognize if the devs balanced a game poorly in a way that allows you to exploit an easy way to kill enemies. So basically, decide for yourself if it's unfair or not

Cheapness is a stupid concept. They may say that playing for the win all the time isn't "fun", but if you are constantly having to tiptoe around any tactic that actually works then how much fun are you really having?

It's usually the cry of a noob who is getting completely destroyed by another player. But this is usually because the other player is just far better in general. If the other player agrees not to spam fireballs, he will still win, just with different tactics. The only way to beat that player is to improve at the game.

What the noob should do is find out how to beat fireball spam. It is ultimately far more fun to just kick someone's ass when they try predictable tactics like that. It's also more fun for the opponent, who gets a real fight, not some noob whining about the simplest of tactics.

Also, remember your "cheap" wins will raise your ranking and the matchmaking system will put you up against players who can deal with it. So you won't have to feel bad about it for long.

Someone's a little bitter...

Not really, it's the truth. This is a definite case where the default should be "hate the game, not the player," because no well designed game will have a completely un-counterable tactic -- which is really the only way a tactic can be cheap, if it's just absolutely game breaking. If the game is balanced and you just don't know the counter for it, that's your own fault; you need to get better. If the game isn't balanced, and you're getting mad, that's your fault too; we live in a world with an absolute glut of multiplayer games. There's plenty of balanced ones out there, so there's no need to complain abut the ones that are broken.

 

[LeQuack_Is_Back]

Well, I'm mainly playing shooters right now, so ranged is the norm. I guess the closest you can get is spamming explosives, which is generally frowned upon, especially if the game doesn't give you some sort of viable counter (e.g.- Flak Jacket in CoD- Black Ops).

It's kinda taking the fun out of C4 throwing in MW3 when even the guys with blast shield die. I almost think it'd be OP if not for the limited throw range.

 

[Otaku World Order]

Sometimes that kind of tactic will bite you. I've thumped fireball spammers before using jump kick to the head followed by sweep kick to the shins.

 

[Radeonx]

Well, a lot of times, that tactic is easily counterable.
If you really don't like the tactic, find a way to beat it, or just stop complaining.

 

[Atticus89]

If I wanna get the Fire Flower and spam fireballs at Bowser to save the princess, I... oh, this is something else. Never mind.

 

[Cogwheel]

Counterable, requires some skill to pull off well, and to a degree, how some characters were meant to be played. Certainly legitimate.

On the other hand, it's really no fun at all to play against, especially if you have no idea how to deal with it, so you'll never catch me doing that.

 

[StriderShinryu]

You know what, you should really stop playing Hulk. He does a ton of damage and his moves have armour on them. And that move where he rips up the ground that can hit you when you`re actually laying on the ground, that`s pretty cheap too.

You should stop playing X-23 too. I mean, she`s got that dive move that can change the direction she`s going in the air so she totally avoids my attacks. And that level 3 super where she`s invisible and you can`t even block has to be the cheapest move ever in any game.

... Seriously, think about it for a second. This is the sort of mentality that had players in the arcade days ban throws (or punish them with a real life punch) because, hey, they`re unblockable so they must be cheap garbage.

Despite what many like to say, UvMC3 is actually a fairly well balanced game, particularly given all of the systems and options in play. Not only that, but the developers actually took steps to make zoning (you know, `fireball spam`) a more viable tactic as it was pretty much useless in vanilla MvC3.

On the pro UMvC3 scene, Dieminion uses almost the same basic tactic as the OP describes except he backs Morrigan up with other characters (Viewtiful Joe for example) who have just as powerful a keep away game as she does. Dieminion is one of the top players in the game but while he consistently finishes top 8, he doesn`t consistently come in first. Surely if `spamming` was so powerful he would win every match he ever plays considering that he`s not only a spammer but is also an exremely good player beneath all of that. Nope, he generally gets beaten by either patient play that takes advantage of holes in his game or by rushdown players that don`t let him get the zone game going. It`s not rocket science, it just takes skill and practice.

In short, if you can`t deal with `spamming` in UMvC3 because it`s a powerful tactic you just need to get better. It shouldn`t be the responsibilty of the so called spammer to make it easier for you to win. By finding ways around the `cheap`tactics you`ll not only become beter yourself but you`ll force the `spammer` to become better too. And, quite frankly, if you`re playing a game that has been created for one on one skill based competitve play but your goal isn`t to get better in some way, then either you shouldn`t be playing that game in the first place or it shouldn`t bother you when you lose.

 

[Fishyash]

It's legit... but probably a weak strategy anways.

SF2 has been the game where I see fireball spam most effective, BUT

Standing there and throwing fireballs is easy to do, and easy to counter. Being smart with them is what counts. I've fought plenty of fireball spamming ryu players on street fighter 2 over the internet (as honda), and I can tell that most of them just stand there and keep doing them. Those ones are easy to approach. But I see plenty of ryu/ken/sagat players who not only get them frame perfect, but change spacing regularly, or delay them, to counter my jump in attempts.

Honestly though if they are losing to people jsut standing there spamming fireballs with no effort, they deserve to lose and need to keep fighting against that same tactic over an over again until they can beat it.

Seriously, someone who just stands there spamming fireballs is a joke to beat. If you lose to it, question your own skill.

If I consider a tactic cheap, I will always blame the game.

...stupid freaking reversal ultras in street fighter 4 can go to hell.

 

[FangShadow]

Despite what many like to say, UvMC3 is actually a fairly well balanced game, particularly given all of the systems and options in play. Not only that, but the developers actually took steps to make zoning (you know, `fireball spam`) a more viable tactic as it was pretty much useless in vanilla MvC3.

On the pro UMvC3 scene, Dieminion uses almost the same basic tactic as the OP describes except he backs Morrigan up with other characters (Viewtiful Joe for example) who have just as powerful a keep away game as she does. Dieminion is one of the top players in the game but while he consistently finishes top 8, he doesn`t consistently come in first. Surely if `spamming` was so powerful he would win every match he ever plays considering that he`s not only a spammer but is also an exremely good player beneath all of that. Nope, he generally gets beaten by either patient play that takes advantage of holes in his game or by rushdown players that don`t let him get the zone game going. It`s not rocket science, it just takes skill and practice.

In short, if you can`t deal with `spamming` in UMvC3 because it`s a powerful tactic you just need to get better. It shouldn`t be the responsibilty of the so called spammer to make it easier for you to win. By finding ways around the `cheap`tactics you`ll not only become beter yourself but you`ll force the `spammer` to become better too. And, quite frankly, if you`re playing a game that has been created for one on one skill based competitve play but your goal isn`t to get better in some way, then either you shouldn`t be playing that game in the first place or it shouldn`t bother you when you lose.

You've pretty much said all the things I was going to say. Morrigan's mirror move is hard to deal with, but I've found ways around it (personally I find it harder when someone uses it to rushdown). Really all fighting games come down to how you practice and how much time you put it. Personally, I think that you should always remember to have fun while trying to improve your game. Otherwise, it can become an excersise in frustration (trust me I went through this phase for a bit).

 

[ImperialSunlight]

As long as the strategy is allowed in the game and is avoidable somehow (either by blocking or dodging), it isn't cheap. A bit annoying, maybe.

 

[Ravenbom]

I think it's a valid tactic and I don't play shoto characters in SFIV or but I do play at least one fireball character in MvC3 and Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

Or rather I should clarify, in the versus games a fireball character is my crutch. If I'm losing a lot I'll fall back on Ryu and Morrigan. I try not to use them but they are my fall back characters.


In SFIV I think Sagat is unbalanced and cheap but that's less because of the fireball fields and more because of his other, excellent zoning tactics that supplement the fireball field.


I think that it's less cheap and more just an easy tactic (semantics, I know) to use. You just need to learn to get around it.

I really hate it when people say you're spamming a move because it's their job to learn to get around it and spamming the move makes it easier to learn to get around it.



Besides Sagat, I think Akuma in SFII (not SFIV) was unbalanced. He had no dizzy (his life is so low that it only somewhat matters) and his air fireball once it connected was impossible to get out of.