Spec Ops: The Line Ending

[nolongerhere]

Didn't shoot the escaping soldier, tried to save Gould, shot the snipers, fired into the air, went home.

Does anyone else feel that the ending cinematic (with Konrad) kind of questions Walker's culpability? I mean, it's made pretty clear that both Lugo and the other guy are both aware that Walker is having some kind of psychological breakdown - they see him stop under the two corpses, and either fire at them or walk away or whatever.. I also felt that it was implied that they realized the radio was bust, yet they STILL followed him.

I mean, I appreciate that he's their squad leader, but if the guy's having a breakdown..

They're not exactly in a good place after the gate. They're probably just as desperate as Walker to shift the blame for what they've done onto someone else, and Walker's presenting them with that opportunity. They're war criminals, and they can't go back if they're responsible for what happened, so they're willing to let Konrad take responsibility.

 

[Tdoodle]

1) Tried to save the civilians
2) Went for the snipers, both the civilian and the soldier died
3) Let Riggs burn
4) Tried to move past the civilians, but once they pushed me back opened up on them
5) Shot myself

I tried to embrace the madness once I realised that was where it was going, then when it was all revealed at the end suicide seemed like the obvious choice.

 

[Susurrus]

Didn't shoot the escaping soldier, tried to save Gould, shot the snipers, fired into the air, went home.

Does anyone else feel that the ending cinematic (with Konrad) kind of questions Walker's culpability? I mean, it's made pretty clear that both Lugo and the other guy are both aware that Walker is having some kind of psychological breakdown - they see him stop under the two corpses, and either fire at them or walk away or whatever.. I also felt that it was implied that they realized the radio was bust, yet they STILL followed him.

I mean, I appreciate that he's their squad leader, but if the guy's having a breakdown..

They're not exactly in a good place after the gate. They're probably just as desperate as Walker to shift the blame for what they've done onto someone else, and Walker's presenting them with that opportunity. They're war criminals, and they can't go back if they're responsible for what happened, so they're willing to let Konrad take responsibility.

Accepting all of that, surely that doesn't change the fact that they are more culpable than him? He's actually mad at this point, to the point of having hallucinations. Even if you can't blame them much, they are more to blame than Walker himself.

 

[Daumantas Kasperavicius]

1) Tried to save the civilians
2) Went for the snipers, both the civilian and the soldier died
3) shot Riggs in the face
4) Kill the civies that hang Lugo I really liked him
5) Shot the Reflection of Conrad.
Then went back to play trough all of the endings and I think Walkers death is the right choice. I mean he deserves peace and no man could stay sane with what he went through.

 

[nolongerhere]

Didn't shoot the escaping soldier, tried to save Gould, shot the snipers, fired into the air, went home.

Does anyone else feel that the ending cinematic (with Konrad) kind of questions Walker's culpability? I mean, it's made pretty clear that both Lugo and the other guy are both aware that Walker is having some kind of psychological breakdown - they see him stop under the two corpses, and either fire at them or walk away or whatever.. I also felt that it was implied that they realized the radio was bust, yet they STILL followed him.

I mean, I appreciate that he's their squad leader, but if the guy's having a breakdown..

They're not exactly in a good place after the gate. They're probably just as desperate as Walker to shift the blame for what they've done onto someone else, and Walker's presenting them with that opportunity. They're war criminals, and they can't go back if they're responsible for what happened, so they're willing to let Konrad take responsibility.

Accepting all of that, surely that doesn't change the fact that they are more culpable than him? He's actually mad at this point, to the point of having hallucinations. Even if you can't blame them much, they are more to blame than Walker himself.

Why do we assume that they're not also suffering from PTSD? They've experienced the exact same horror that Walker has. Both suffer from personality changes, and both become more violent, much like Walker. I'd guess they're suffering in a very similar way to Walker. I'd say that share culpability.

 

[Richardplex]

1) Tried to save Gould - Utilitarianism approach, let some die now to save more later. Paved the way for one big response later.
2) Shot the guy who overretaliated (being indoctrinated by how choices in games work for the win)
3) Let Riggs burn - he was going to die anyway, and all I had was that one bullet. I very much might of needed it to survive. My survival > mercy
4) shot into the air - mob mentality, I was angry, but killing them won't fix it. Humans become really stupid and monstrous once they're in groups such to be classified as people.
5) Let Walker live- suicide wasn't even an option for me. Still hesitated though, which made me really appreciated how well crafted the whole thing was.
6) let soldiers take him in. Killing him won't undo what he's done in his attempt to be a hero.

I only played it for the first time yesterday too. Kept Walker alive and gave up my gun to the rescue team at the end. I'm still trying to process a lot of it. It definitely left me in awe though.

I've read one of the writer's interpretations is that Walker actually dies in the chopper crash and everything after that is just his Purgatory. I couldn't reconcile that with the inclusion of the Epilogue after the credits though, so in my mind at the end Walker had realised the horror of what he'd done and rather than taking the easy way out and killing himself he was going to own it, go home to face the consequences. In doing so he's punishing himself - getting to live isn't actually a reward.

Things that are real fade out in black. Hallucinations fade into white. Go watch the scene where you are picked up by the soldiers again.
>

My interpretation is the story was him remembering what he did in Dubai. Hence the level design - notice how you're always going down? You'll fall down a hole and then end up on top of a skyscraper for instance - stays the same throughout, but the hallucinations start after the massacre. I also think Lugo and Adams got PTSD as well, hence why they were still following Walker. That and they were war criminals at that point, they were grasping to blame someone without realising it. Well, they realised something was really off, but it wasn't enough to make them mutiny.

It's really cool that, as the lead writer said, that the Walker's purgatory interpretation is just that - an interpretation. It's not leaving it vague but have a cannon choice, it's pick the way you want to interpret it, the way that has the most impact.

 

[Susurrus]

FADE TO WHITE QUOTE

I think this is utter rubbish. I read the interview with the writer who said that fades to white were hallucinations - but RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING, around the plane level, the game fades to white. What hallucination is taking place there, exactly? It does not make sense. And if that was a careless mistake, it is difficult to see that in other places the effect was carefully crafted.

 

[Thanatos5150]

1) Went to Save Gould. I originally planned on the civilians, But Gould was RIGHT THERE! and I had a silenced weapon, plus, he had saved me.
2) Ordered my Squad to attack the snipers, then shot out the ropes.
3) Let Riggs burn. Reap what you sew, asshole.
4) I panicked, and thought the game was going to make me attack the civilians. Firing into the air never entered my mind as a possibility. At first, I tried to walk through the crowd - took damage. I punched a random civvie in retaliation. Then they dispersed.
5) Shot "Konrad"
6) Gave the gun up. I figure getting Walker home A) nets him some much-needed psychiatric help and B) turns Wlaker/Dubai into a horror story, preventing special forces operators from making the same mistakes.

 

[Lazy]

I shot the ropes to the two people, decided civilians were more important than Gould, scattered the civilians/murderers at Lugo's death by shooting at the ground around them, I let Riggs burn in a kind of twisted irony and finished the game by leaving the city as a husk of the man that came in.

Pretty much exactly the same as me, though I let Riggs burn mostly because I didn't want to waste the only bullet I had.

 

[Saviordd1]

0.o

*Looks at thread, looks at avatar*
Ohhhhhhhh you did it nao boay


OT: The ending left me thinking for two days about it (being one of those "look at the messages" douchebags that everyone hates) and it is just absolutely mindfuckery; on so many levels I can barely start to talk about.

Like how the game is basically ripping apart the "spunkgargleweewee" games, the players of video games and so much more; its absolutely astounding and well done on so many levels.

As for your "happy" ending, you should read this

"While Williams knows of one player who picked up on that possibility, he's relatively sure no one has caught the subtler subtext suggested by the game's cut scene transitions. "Every time the game is doing a normal transition, it fades to black. Whenever Walker is hallucinating, it fades to white. In the epilogue, it fades to white."

Good luck feeling good about that.

 

[Saviordd1]

FADE TO WHITE QUOTE

I think this is utter rubbish. I read the interview with the writer who said that fades to white were hallucinations - but RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING, around the plane level, the game fades to white. What hallucination is taking place there, exactly? It does not make sense. And if that was a careless mistake, it is difficult to see that in other places the effect was carefully crafted.

From the lead writer himself

"Near the end of our interview, Williams felt the need to point out a couple of hidden elements to Spec Ops story that most players seem to have missed entirely. The first deals with the helicopter-based firefight that serves as the game's prologue, and is reprised near the end of the game.

"When you get to it the second time, Walker directly calls out that you've done this before," Williams said. "It's specifically designed so you would maybe read it as the prologue is the only part of the game where you're really alive, and you die in that chopper crash, and everything after that is Walker kind of working through his guilt and forcing him to go through with what he has done and face up to it. This is his own personal hell he is creating for himself."

 

[Naeras]

I finished the game two hours ago. Now, let's see...


- I let the guy who was being interrogated early in the game go. Didn't bother shooting him.
- I tried to rescue Gould. We all know how that went.
- Although technically not a choice, I actually tried not to hit the entrenched humans with the white phosphorus, and hoped that I could get away with only hitting the Humvee next to the trench instead. Something about that whole scene just felt off, so I wasn't as surprised as many others when it turned out that I had horribly murdered civilians.
- I shot the trooper hanging from the bridge rather than the thief. Was thinking about shooting the snipers, but wasn't sure whether they'd kill me first, honestly.
- I shot Riggs. I did consider just leaving him, though, but I thought I'd let enough people burn to death by that point in the game.
- I punched one of the civilians. Didn't see any point in killing them, and didn't think about firing into the air. Thankfully, my partner did.
- I shot "Konrad", simply I've got a horribly racist attitude towards hallucinations.
- I put down my weapon towards the soldiers; I thought Walker had killed enough people by now. I expected the soldiers to knock me out, but they just put me into a car and drove me home. And then they finished the scene with an ambiguous quote and an even more ambiguous fade-to-white.

I'm still fairly mindfucked by this game.
(captcha: accidentally on purpose. Well yeah, we're discussing Spec Ops: The Line here :V)

 

[Lazy]

"While Williams knows of one player who picked up on that possibility, he's relatively sure no one has caught the subtler subtext suggested by the game's cut scene transitions. "Every time the game is doing a normal transition, it fades to black. Whenever Walker is hallucinating, it fades to white. In the epilogue, it fades to white."

Good luck feeling good about that.

If I recall correctly, it fades to white when Walker gets in the car but to black in the scene afterwards. Pretty sure I remember someone saying this was the case on TVTropes as well, though I could be wrong.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

"When you get to it the second time, Walker directly calls out that you've done this before," Williams said. "It's specifically designed so you would maybe read it as the prologue is the only part of the game where you're really alive, and you die in that chopper crash, and everything after that is Walker kind of working through his guilt and forcing him to go through with what he has done and face up to it. This is his own personal hell he is creating for himself."

yeah when i got to that part, my mind was a bit blown on what truly had happened and what was happening, it's a bit amazing how many different interpretations people take on the story, not to mention why people pick the ending/solutions they do.

it's the first game ever where i actively wanted to mow down all those citizens for lugo, fuckin pissed me off, i also loved the emotion in nolan north's voice as the game progressed around halfway to the end.

 

[Saviordd1]

I'm actually astounded at the amount of people who shot the civilians who hanged Lugo. They've had the world fucked up by the American military, of course they'd do something like that.

Yeah this is how I felt, I couldn't shoot them.

As a man IN THE GAME says earlier

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

 

[Anti-American Eagle]

Put the game in the tray and booted it up.
Entered Dubai, not a choice but it happened.
Let the "victim" run, I didn't really think about it at the time.
White phosphorus incident happened, not a choice but it happened.
Tried to save Gould, I genuinely thought I could save all of them.
Shot the snipers, I thought I could save both of them if I took out the snipers fast enough.
Let Riggs burn, he was a bastard and decided I needed the bullet more than he did.
Destroyed the media tower, not a choice but it happened.
Dispersed the civilians after they hanged Lugo, I was pissed but still decided I had more morality then they did.
Shot "Konrad", I hadn't realized at the time that the other choice meant suicide but "Konrad" was right I needed someone to blame.
Allowed the soldiers to disarm me, there had already been enough death I just couldn't do it anymore.
Put down the controller and left it there for a few weeks while I just sat there contemplating what I had done.

My choices were my own and they were more and more depressing the more I thought about it, that was pretty much the end of shooters for me. I could have stopped at any time, but I didn't.

 

[Lazy]

My choices were my own and they were more and more depressing the more I thought about it, that was pretty much the end of shooters for me. I could have stopped at any time, but I didn't.

Precisely. I've heard people complain about how a lot of the big story moments take the choice away from the player (the WP scene in particular) but I think that that's really the point. Getting the player to blame the developers for forcing their hand, in the same way that Walker blames Konrad and the 33rd. But, like Walker, the player is only fooling him/herself when in reality there is a choice for both of them: just walk away.

God damn this game is meta.

 

[Mikejames]

I'm actually astounded at the amount of people who shot the civilians who hanged Lugo. They've had the world fucked up by the American military, of course they'd do something like that.

In the melancholy of losing Lugo I just tried to walk away, but when they started stoning me I reacted.

I think the fact that the decisions were made in real time worked in the sense that it brought a lot of irrational choices on my part.