Spector Denies Focus Group Inspired Epic Mickey Removal

[samsonguy920]

....but if you won't make design changes, then why bother using a focus group to look at the design?

As I had said but maybe not directly enough, I have a feeling Spector's bosses at Disney arrange the focus groups and he goes along to appease the ones who write the checks. So that is more a question to ask Disney why they bother wasting money inviting people in to give their opinion when Spector isn't going to pay it any regard.

 

[Kollega]

[HEADING=1]HAI GUIZE![/HEADING]

You all talk about "Disney Nazis meddling with the creative process grr grr", but do you know the other, completely legitimate and very probable reason for not having GRIMDARK Mickey in the game?

EDIT: oh look, somebody has actually compared them to Nazis while i was writing this. Good job everyone.

Not that I really have an interest in Disney or a game inspired by its characters (yeah yeah, I haven't played Kingdom Hearts, sue me), but the whole "darker meaner" image didn't work with Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, so it sure as hell wouldn't go over too well with Mickey Mouse. You don't need a focus group to see that.

This is the reason. There were countless, countless attempts to make characters more "mature" (read: GRIMDARK) stretching across all mediums, including the entire Dark Age of Comics in the nineties... and most of them have failed. Just from the genre of platformers, i can bring up two examples. Developers have tried this with Prince - and most players thought it didn't work. They have tried it with Ratchet - and again, most players thought it didn't work. Us nerds should understand that some characters will not benefit from "GRIMDARKIFICATION", appealing as it may be at the first glance.

GRIMDARK SPESS MAHREENS and such may look "mature" and thus more respectable (even though they are not), but we all know that cartoony characters are not supposed to be "mature", for real or not, in the first place! If Mickey Mouse suddenly turned GRIMDARKCORE he'd just be totally out of place, and if prankster transformation was style-appropriate... do you all want him to suddenly sprout a handlebar moustache and start cackling maniacally? I mean, it would look pretty damn funny, but it's not like Mickey Mouse.

In summary: even if you make them dress and act accordingly, Prince Of Persia was never really a macho berserker, Ratchet was never really a SPESS MAHREEN, and Mickey Mouse will never really be a Dastardly-Whiplash type of character. Why? Because they are not good at it, they weren't designed for that. It's time we face that fact.

BIG FAT DISCO DISCLAIMER: i am not defending Disney Corp. - those guys make Bobby Kotick look like Albert Schweitzer. I have said that only to defend Warren Spector's good name and his, in my opinion, proper design descisions.

 

[archvile93]

Doesn't change my belief that this will continue to be stripped down until it's just another generic platformer by release date.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I think after helping to create things like Deus Ex, System Shock, and Thief: The Dark Project you're allowed to put your head wherever you want

I think after working for Disney, they take away your right to think ;-).

But seriously, Dues Ex was great, but the second one could've been better. Ken Levine essentially made System Shock his with the sequel, and BioShock. I'll give you theif though.

I just don't understand why Spector isn't involved in either Theif 4, or the next Dues Ex.

 

[Queen Michael]

To be honest, I didn't like Scrapper Mickey anyway. So the way I see it, we're just discussing the exact reason Spector made a good decision.

 

[fletch_talon]

Not that I really have an interest in Disney or a game inspired by its characters (yeah yeah, I haven't played Kingdom Hearts, sue me), but the whole "darker meaner" image didn't work with Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, so it sure as hell wouldn't go over too well with Mickey Mouse. You don't need a focus group to see that.

This is the reason. There were countless, countless attempts to make characters more "mature" (read: GRIMDARK) stretching across all mediums, including the entire Dark Age of Comics in the nineties... and most of them have failed. Just from the genre of platformers, i can bring up two examples. Developers have tried this with Prince - and most players thought it didn't work. They have tried it with Ratchet - and again, most players thought it didn't work. Us nerds should understand that some characters will not benefit from "GRIMDARKIFICATION", appealing as it may be at the first glance.

GRIMDARK SPESS MAHREENS and such may look "mature" and thus more respectable (even though they are not), but we all know that cartoony characters are not supposed to be "mature", for real or not, in the first place! If Mickey Mouse suddenly turned GRIMDARKCORE he'd just be totally out of place, and if prankster transformation was style-appropriate... do you all want him to suddenly sprout a handlebar moustache and start cackling maniacally? I mean, it would look pretty damn funny, but it's not like Mickey Mouse.

In summary: even if you make them dress and act accordingly, Prince Of Persia was never really a macho berserker, Ratchet was never really a SPESS MAHREEN, and Mickey Mouse will never really be a Dastardly-Whiplash type of character. Why? Because they are not good at it, they weren't designed for that. It's time we face that fact.

Thank you. This is almost perfect, except in my opinion, the best example (by which I mean the most despicable case) of grimdarkification is the Legend of Spyro games... *shudder*

 

[Jared]

Doesn't change my belief that this will continue to be stripped down until it's just another generic platformer by release date.

Thats what I think its going to be...and then something which could have been awesome and epic, will jsut be another one of the games that no one looks at twice

 

[Kollega]

Thank you. This is almost perfect, except in my opinion, the best example (by which I mean the most despicable case) of grimdarkification is the Legend of Spyro games... *shudder*

Well, i haven't seen those, i've only heard things - that's why i didn't bring them up originally. But from what i've heard... oh mah gawd.

[small]The horror... the horror...[/small]

 

[SomeGuyNamedKy]

Why did he have to get rid of Scrapper Mickey? Scrapper Mickey looks fucking awesome.

 

[oktalist]

Let me get this straight.
People bitched when they thought he decided to remove "mean Mickey" because of a focus group and now people are going to ***** because he said he'd never do that.

OMG sensible person on the internest! Get him!

Wait, he said he wouldn't make a decision based on focus groups, then said he made a decision based on a focus group.

He said he wouldn't make a design change based solely on focus groups. This wasn't a design change because, by that point, the design had not been finalised.

Let's face it, he buckled to pressure from Disney but doesn't want to rock the cradle so he acts like interviews in the past about the game never happened.

Yeah, you're probably right. But then, Disney has his wife and children locked up in some dungeon somewhere until he finishes the game to their satisfaction, so I can't really blame him.

Hm. Sounds like someone was a might bit too worried about PR responsibility. It's just so freaking difficult to trust what people in charge of things say anymore.

You got that right. I call it the BP effect.

But seriously, Dues Ex was great, but the second one could've been better.

He wasn't involved with the second one.

Ken Levine essentially made System Shock his with the sequel, and BioShock.

I preferred the original. But to be fair, Spector's role in it was fairly minor.

I just don't understand why Spector isn't involved in either Theif 4, or the next Dues Ex.

Because publishers know he values quality more than mass appeal.

 

[cobra_ky]

It was probably Disney cracking the whip and telling them to remove it. Wouldn't surprise me, those people are like Nazis. Brings to mind the Jonas Brothers South Park episode.

Yes, how dare Disney exert such strict control over the characters they own.

 

[zombie711]

Scrapper Mickey's gone? he was the reason I started to look into this game. I remember reading on AOL.com like 50 pages of people angry at Scrapper mickey.

 

[Sneaky Paladin]

I caught on late for the Epic Mickey news, but when I found out you could have been an evil Mickey and then they took that out, no matter the reason, I lost any semblance of interest. I really do not like Disney as it stands, but the chance to play as an evil Mickey Mouse sounded compelling.

To me, although this is just a "design" change and not gameplay, it is still a big deal considering the design of a game affects how you react to the game. Having a darker Mickey in appearance or even attitude as well as a repercussion to a player's negative actions could have been a very effective aspect of the game.

You CAN be an evil mickey. He just doesn't look like it and instead you have some angel and demon on your shoulder...Or something like that.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

I caught on late for the Epic Mickey news, but when I found out you could have been an evil Mickey and then they took that out, no matter the reason, I lost any semblance of interest. I really do not like Disney as it stands, but the chance to play as an evil Mickey Mouse sounded compelling.

To me, although this is just a "design" change and not gameplay, it is still a big deal considering the design of a game affects how you react to the game. Having a darker Mickey in appearance or even attitude as well as a repercussion to a player's negative actions could have been a very effective aspect of the game.

You CAN be an evil mickey. He just doesn't look like it and instead you have some angel and demon on your shoulder...Or something like that.

When I said evil, I meant in appearance. Sorry for the lack of clarity. The concept just makes me think of a model of an evil Mickey Mouse I saw in an art book. It looked pretty awesome.

The angel/demon thing sounds like it could be used appropriately for a cartoon like Mickey, which reminds me of the old cartoons like Bugs Bunny.

 

[DTWolfwood]

RoFL This guy has a bright future in politics if he ever gets out the games industry. Filthy bold face liars!

 

[Imper1um]

Wait a second...

http://www.1up.com/news/scrapper-mickey-removed-disney-epic

"We did a focus test that was really eye-opening for me."

Right from his own mouth.

Now Mr.Warren is saying that "I waste the company's money on focus groups, because I don't listen to them."

Can I get a FAIL?