Spider-Man: With Great Games, Comes Great Responsibility

[PapaGreg096]

Clearly you have no vision. I even made suggestions such as events to save people in danger like stopping a bank robbery, saving people from a building on fire, and even save a boat from a tsunami.

Clearly you missed my point. Those things you suggested are A. Just busy work that is present in most open world games, Spider-man included and B, no threat to Superman himself.

I asked you for some way to threaten Superman (the player) because a game in which the player has no risk or no stake in the game is not a game that is fun, memorable, or interesting enough to see through to the end. Which is why in most games, when the player is given god-like powers those powers are usually very brief and only awarded after the player has gone through many challenges to get to that point.

I'm not saying a Superman game couldn't work. I am merely asking you how it would work, because I don't see any possible way it could. Superman has only 1 threat in the entire universe and that's a little green rock, so unless you plan to just turn the world into kryponite, how would you go about making the random crimes interesting? How would you make the building on fire be a danger to the player? The only possible way to do that is to make the player do it before the fire kills the NPC's, in which case it is a timed mission and those almost always suck. So that's not an option.

How about the street crimes? Criminals robbing a bank? How do those criminals become a threat? You could in give them kryponite bullets I guess, but Superman is faster than human thought, so he can stop and/or dodge those bullets so there is no threat or challenge to him there.

Admittedly, the Tsunami mission could be a cool side mission. But unless you plan to rain constant nature disasters on the city, that option quickly runs out of steam.

Ultimately Superman's problem is that the only way to challenge him, is to threaten NPC's, which means overcoming the challenge for the player is nothing more than beating whatever in-game timer they must beat to stop the bad thing from happening.

Superman could be a cheat code in another super hero's game and little more sadly.

I mean he also gets hurt by magic, hi tech weapons, and other super powered beings so just make enemy grunts like those. Jesus Christ has anyone seen a Superman cartoon, the guy gets hurt all the time and just because its not by normal or conventional means people think he's invincible. There are games where Goku can get hurt by guns, lasers and rocket launchers but no one complains about that.

Superman is stronger than Goku because of comic book reasons. And there hasn't been a good DBZ game that wasn't a fighter either for some of those same reasons. However the difference is that Goku typically is always having to punch UP towards more powerful foes than himself. Whereas Superman almost always punches down.

Just because these characters don't make for good video games. Doesn't mean that their other media isn't valid. They just don't fit a video game unless to dramatically change the way their powers work.

That honestly depends on each incarnation, for example I doubt TAS Superman is stronger than Goku and he gets hurt all the time and again there you can just give goons hi tech weapons are magic, its not that hard.

Look at the Legacy of Goku games where characters who tank planet busting blasts gets hurt by rocket launchers and wolves but despite that a lot of people enjoy said games.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I only played the demo of Bayonetta but it seemed to be another game where the unlocked moves aren?t particularly significant in terms of having a singular purpose (ie like getting new gear from any Zelda game). In DMC for a similar genre example it was possible to get through the game with a handful of the same attack strings.

I get what you?re saying though about unlocked moves . It?s probably a big reason why I like SoulsBorne so much; you already have your moveset to learn naturally and then you also more organically acquire new and significant weapons with which to use them in tandem. Probably the worst part about having unlocked moves in terms of game design is the issue created by constantly having to do so in character-driven games through the inevitable sequels. I think if they make us unlock everything for Kratos again and have to relevel in the next game I might not even play it. It gets ridiculous, and at the very least they should have save transferring.

As for Arkham City, I only finished the main story and the main missions for Catwoman. I doubt I?ll ever play the rest of them unless I somehow have nothing else to play. I thought it was better than AA overall by tuning the formula and expanding on it in ways that made sense within the world, but you?re right about there being too many collectibles. As good as the game is there is a such thing as overkill.

It doesn't really have much to do with moves being unlockable but with the combat system on the whole. Some games give you that stripped down base to start the game and add in a move like every hour to slowly integrate everything to the player while other games give you basically the whole thing at the start. Regardless if GOW's moves were all there at the start, it would still be a bad combat system because the majority of the game's moves simply provide breadth without any actual depth. Bayonetta, like most Platinum games, gives you pretty much the whole thing at the start (even dodge offsetting) with the unlockables there really just to have something to unlock; 2 of them just literally upgrade the dodge while you have something like the after burner kick that is basically required if you really want to be about those juggles. If a game has 10 moves that do 10 different things, you gotta use them all if you wanna do each thing. Whereas if a game has 10 moves that do 3 different things, you're going to use only the 3 that do each thing the best.

I don't really find having an simple way to beat everything makes a game bad because you can do that in like every game whether it's using arrows in Dark Souls or Dishonored's blinking above every enemy for easy drop assassinations. Usually just beating a game really isn't the point of its gameplay. DMCs/Bayos are about style, Arkane's games are about player creativity. Same thing with abusing enemy AI like having enemies go up a ladder or opening a door one-by-one for easy kills. Games in general are about having fun and finding that one "I win everything" move is really just robbing yourself of that fun.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Clearly you have no vision. I even made suggestions such as events to save people in danger like stopping a bank robbery, saving people from a building on fire, and even save a boat from a tsunami.

Clearly you missed my point. Those things you suggested are A. Just busy work that is present in most open world games, Spider-man included and B, no threat to Superman himself.

I asked you for some way to threaten Superman (the player) because a game in which the player has no risk or no stake in the game is not a game that is fun, memorable, or interesting enough to see through to the end. Which is why in most games, when the player is given god-like powers those powers are usually very brief and only awarded after the player has gone through many challenges to get to that point.

I'm not saying a Superman game couldn't work. I am merely asking you how it would work, because I don't see any possible way it could. Superman has only 1 threat in the entire universe and that's a little green rock, so unless you plan to just turn the world into kryponite, how would you go about making the random crimes interesting? How would you make the building on fire be a danger to the player? The only possible way to do that is to make the player do it before the fire kills the NPC's, in which case it is a timed mission and those almost always suck. So that's not an option.

How about the street crimes? Criminals robbing a bank? How do those criminals become a threat? You could in give them kryponite bullets I guess, but Superman is faster than human thought, so he can stop and/or dodge those bullets so there is no threat or challenge to him there.

Admittedly, the Tsunami mission could be a cool side mission. But unless you plan to rain constant nature disasters on the city, that option quickly runs out of steam.

Ultimately Superman's problem is that the only way to challenge him, is to threaten NPC's, which means overcoming the challenge for the player is nothing more than beating whatever in-game timer they must beat to stop the bad thing from happening.

Superman could be a cheat code in another super hero's game and little more sadly.

I mean he also gets hurt by magic, hi tech weapons, and other super powered beings so just make enemy grunts like those. Jesus Christ has anyone seen a Superman cartoon, the guy gets hurt all the time and just because its not by normal or conventional means people think he's invincible. There are games where Goku can get hurt by guns, lasers and rocket launchers but no one complains about that.

It'd be a very contrived game, always finding new and stranger reasons to explain why a group of terrorists have Superman hurting plasma annihilators or there's always a Wizard guarding Lex Corp.
Also since you brought up the show, in the Justice League show and follow-up movies Superman makes it clear he's not using his true power. He's purposefully not going as hard as he can because he wants to stay connected to people. When Lex got a taste of that true power, he said he could see atoms, could hear everyone in the world, could mold reality to his bidding. That's how powerful Superman really is, and it'd be very silly to just keep coming up with a reason why he's not at 100%.

A Superman game where its always raining Kryptonite is a boring slog. A game where Superman is at his true power would be a quick bore.

 

[sXeth]

All we need is Superman that can fly at least 100 miles per hour, strong enough only to lift a truck, and has his basic heat vision, ice breath, and X-ray vision and super hearing (the super hearing can be used as a way to pick up quests or random events)

AKA. All we need is to play an OP character.

Look man, I'm happy you love Superman, but the dude is not good game material, he isn't even a good character in general. He is entertaining for sure and there are some good stories around him. But there isn't really a good way to make him a staring video game character, because if they limit him to be reasonable many fans would be upset about it.

Think about an Arkham game, or the open world spider-man game, and then answer this question. "What would threaten Superman enough to make an entire game interesting?"

There's tons of games with OP characters. The power fantasy is, while maybe not your personal cup of tea, certainly even a draw for many folks.

Warframe for instance, has at least two (probably more) characters that are completely unkillable barring some extreme screwup on the players parts. Which doesn't break the game because your survival is prettymuch never the actual objective.

Superman is even bound by tighter constraints then that, because Superman is a moral character. He can't simply heat-vision a bunch of mooks into smoldering ashes to prevent them from doing something. It'd be more of a puzzle or even tactical game figuring out how to defuse situations for him.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I just finnished it, and while it still has some issues it actually pulls some pretty fancy moves toward the end. So yeah, it went from good to pretty great in the final quarter.

 

[SeventhSigil]

Photo mode is freaking addicting, and I normally don't mess around with that mode at all. But between all of the filters, costumes and the multitude of animations for swinging and combat, it's just such a perfect fit. And look! I even found puddles while snapping pics!

 

[CriticalGaming]

Photo mode is freaking addicting, and I normally don't mess around with that mode at all. But between all of the filters, costumes and the multitude of animations for swinging and combat, it's just such a perfect fit. And look! I even found puddles while snapping pics!

I still can't build that suit. I want it sooooo much though!

 

[CriticalGaming]

I only played the demo of Bayonetta but it seemed to be another game where the unlocked moves aren?t particularly significant in terms of having a singular purpose (ie like getting new gear from any Zelda game). In DMC for a similar genre example it was possible to get through the game with a handful of the same attack strings.

I get what you?re saying though about unlocked moves . It?s probably a big reason why I like SoulsBorne so much; you already have your moveset to learn naturally and then you also more organically acquire new and significant weapons with which to use them in tandem. Probably the worst part about having unlocked moves in terms of game design is the issue created by constantly having to do so in character-driven games through the inevitable sequels. I think if they make us unlock everything for Kratos again and have to relevel in the next game I might not even play it. It gets ridiculous, and at the very least they should have save transferring.

As for Arkham City, I only finished the main story and the main missions for Catwoman. I doubt I?ll ever play the rest of them unless I somehow have nothing else to play. I thought it was better than AA overall by tuning the formula and expanding on it in ways that made sense within the world, but you?re right about there being too many collectibles. As good as the game is there is a such thing as overkill.

It doesn't really have much to do with moves being unlockable but with the combat system on the whole. Some games give you that stripped down base to start the game and add in a move like every hour to slowly integrate everything to the player while other games give you basically the whole thing at the start. Regardless if GOW's moves were all there at the start, it would still be a bad combat system because the majority of the game's moves simply provide breadth without any actual depth. Bayonetta, like most Platinum games, gives you pretty much the whole thing at the start (even dodge offsetting) with the unlockables there really just to have something to unlock; 2 of them just literally upgrade the dodge while you have something like the after burner kick that is basically required if you really want to be about those juggles. If a game has 10 moves that do 10 different things, you gotta use them all if you wanna do each thing. Whereas if a game has 10 moves that do 3 different things, you're going to use only the 3 that do each thing the best.

I don't really find having an simple way to beat everything makes a game bad because you can do that in like every game whether it's using arrows in Dark Souls or Dishonored's blinking above every enemy for easy drop assassinations. Usually just beating a game really isn't the point of its gameplay. DMCs/Bayos are about style, Arkane's games are about player creativity. Same thing with abusing enemy AI like having enemies go up a ladder or opening a door one-by-one for easy kills. Games in general are about having fun and finding that one "I win everything" move is really just robbing yourself of that fun.

Every game has varying degrees of redundantly effective attacks and specials; however I was still constantly cycling through runic attacks over the course of GoW as upgrading them kept changing their effectiveness enough in different situations. The biggest factors aside from cool down times were ratings for stun, damage and status effects; all of which were more or less viable given different encounters based on enemy type and how large or varied the group was.

Just as I was regularly upgrading and tinkering with best armor, I don?t think I could settle on any ?best? light/heavy runic for the whole game, but the Murder of Crows generally seemed to be the best summon for most encounters. Also I haven?t tried it yet, but from what I?ve read by people who have the Give Me God of War difficulty is significantly more tactically demanding. This link [https://blog.eu.playstation.com/2018/05/16/16-expert-tips-for-conquering-god-of-wars-brutal-give-me-god-of-war-difficulty-mode/] also talks about that ?sliding? effect that is eliminated, although I?m not sure why it was even in the Give Me a Challenge difficultly if it was designed as an assist.

Having said that, it brings up the issue of difficulty levels in games to begin with, and how hard they truly are to balance in significant ways beyond the typical damage/health/ammo/etc. values. In some aspects it could even be more difficult than with a fighting game?s roster.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I still can't build that suit. I want it sooooo much though!

I don't think you can build it, you can only get it as a preorder.

 

[SeventhSigil]

Photo mode is freaking addicting, and I normally don't mess around with that mode at all. But between all of the filters, costumes and the multitude of animations for swinging and combat, it's just such a perfect fit. And look! I even found puddles while snapping pics!

I still can't build that suit. I want it sooooo much though!

It's pretty darn awesome! :3 though my favourite one asked to be the Stark suit, at least when it comes to taking screenshots.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I don't think you can build it, you can only get it as a preorder.

Worst game of the year!

 

[SeventhSigil]

I don't think you can build it, you can only get it as a preorder.

Worst game of the year!

Actually, I'm pretty sure the pre-order bonus was just for early unlocks, the suits it unlocked were sprinkled throughout the list at different intervals, like they were meant to be unlocked later in the game. So you should be able to get it!

 

[CriticalGaming]

I don't think you can build it, you can only get it as a preorder.

Worst game of the year!

Actually, I'm pretty sure the pre-order bonus was just for early unlocks, the suits it unlocked were sprinkled throughout the list at different intervals, like they were meant to be unlocked later in the game. So you should be able to get it!

BEST GAME EVER!

 

[CriticalGaming]

Btw, did anyone find the marriage proposal [http://gametyrant.com/news/spider-man-hidden-wedding-proposal-is-now-the-saddest-easter-egg-ever] some fan requested to be put into the game? Wondering if it was still there. I think I?d leave it there regardless of what happened, unless it really was too painful to look at.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

A quick comment on the Superman debate. You don't have to make a Superman game about combat, games don't need to be about combat especially when you think said combat wouldn't work or would be really really hard to make work. The game could be about ethical decisions and can be framed as something like Deontology vs Utilitarianism. Just imagine how different the US would be if policy was based on ethics instead of money. Something like that would like never be made in the AAA landscape though.

Every game has varying degrees of redundantly effective attacks and specials; however I was still constantly cycling through runic attacks over the course of GoW as upgrading them kept changing their effectiveness enough in different situations. The biggest factors aside from cool down times were ratings for stun, damage and status effects; all of which were more or less viable given different encounters based on enemy type and how large or varied the group was.

Just as I was regularly upgrading and tinkering with best armor, I don?t think I could settle on any ?best? light/heavy runic for the whole game, but the Murder of Crows generally seemed to be the best summon for most encounters. Also I haven?t tried it yet, but from what I?ve read by people who have the Give Me God of War difficulty is significantly more tactically demanding. This link [https://blog.eu.playstation.com/2018/05/16/16-expert-tips-for-conquering-god-of-wars-brutal-give-me-god-of-war-difficulty-mode/] also talks about that ?sliding? effect that is eliminated, although I?m not sure why it was even in the Give Me a Challenge difficultly if it was designed as an assist.

Having said that, it brings up the issue of difficulty levels in games to begin with, and how hard they truly are to balance in significant ways beyond the typical damage/health/ammo/etc. values. In some aspects it could even be more difficult than with a fighting game?s roster.

Yeah, the runic attacks are mainly the only moves worth a damn in GOW due to their damage and consistent hit-stun capabilities. I was mainly talking about all those other moves you unlock that don't do a damn thing or even make the game worse by overriding other moves. Because of the runic attacks being so awesome, the game basically plays like a MOBA where you always do you highest burst damage combo every encounter. If say the runic attacks were moves Kratos would do at the end of specific combos or situations, then we might have something. Like say when you would give an enemy the frost status and then do a executioners cleave, you would instead do the Frost Giant's Frenzy runic attack with the frost status triggering the better attack. That would actually make the player have to do certain things with the base combat system to get those powerful moves instead of just pressing a button once the cooldown is over.

With regards to the armors and RPG side of things. The armor doesn't make much difference because the stats themselves don't do much and it's all about level. If you had armor that would make you level 5 instead of level 4, the level 5 armor is better regardless of the stats associated. The only stat that matters in any regard, I think is the cooldown stat because it allows you to do those powerful runic attacks more. From what I recall, the best builds are maxing out runic attacks. Level is so important and dictates so much because of the enemy level affecting so much from their health to their attack power to their hit-stun as well. The game becomes hard or easy purely due to a number's game and nothing else, it'll make wolves have OHKO attacks on the hard end or make the boy's arrows fully stun enemies in 4 shots on the easy end. Sure, the game is harder if enemy's have OHKO attacks but it ceases being much fun becoming more tedious and just using safe attacks like how you'll see a majority of GMGOW playthroughs at the start just being cheap with the axe throw over and over again. GOW has the worst difficulty curve that I've ever seen and it's all to do with RPG mechanics that character action games don't need whatsoever.

I didn't know that GMGOW removes or reduces the move assist but does it do the same for enemy attacks? Because the glide across the environment is not just for you but the enemies too, and it makes you block/dodge pretty much every attack because it seems you're never far enough away.

 

[Majestic Manatee_v1legacy]

Btw, did anyone find the marriage proposal [http://gametyrant.com/news/spider-man-hidden-wedding-proposal-is-now-the-saddest-easter-egg-ever] some fan requested to be put into the game? Wondering if it was still there. I think I?d leave it there regardless of what happened, unless it really was too painful to look at.

Turns out that story wasn't all it made out to be. https://www.houstonpress.com/news/the-spider-man-proposal-easter-egg-has-a-darker-side-10842784

The woman had to also delete social media accounts for ~~ drum roll ~~ online harassment from the story.

 

[Elfgore]

I'm a comic nerd and love superhero games to the point I'm astounded how few superhero games have been coming out since the recent boom. Infamous and Batman have pretty much all we've gotten. So seeing Insomniac getting their hands on a Spider-Man game after making a game as movement heavy so well in Sunset Overdrive, I was hyped. Boy oh boy did the game deliver. I finished the game in three days, doing all the side missions, but leaving myself a healthy amount of various other side content to do.

The combat is great. It's a more dodge intense Arkham game and I honestly love that. Unlike the Arkham games, I found myself using almost all of my gadgets and abilities in combat which is very refreshing. Web-swinging feels great and is very cinematic for how much control you have.

But I have some complaints. Trying to move a little bit or aim for precise spots can be tough as hell. It's like Spider-Man needs to move a lot or not at all. It makes drone challenge missions a *****. Also wanna point out, love how the game spoils itself at one point. Revealing who the mysterious man giving you challenges is before he reveals himself. I seem to be lucky enough to not encounter any bugs, big or small.

Overall, it's a damn fun game and in my running for GOTY. Which isn't saying much, since this year for me has been fairly lackluster for myself.

Too many people to quote, but for everybody talking about Superman, check out Megaton Rainfall. You're an immortal being with absurd powers. You have no health bar, the people of earth do. Gotta make sure to aim your attacks well so you don't end up killing more of the people of earth than the bad guys do.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

I just beat Spider-Man and I gotta say, this is easily one of my favorite games of the year.

Combat is smooth, fluid, challenging, and fun. Spider-Man's mobility is appreciated and makes a lot more sense than Batman gliding across the floor like a dance queen to hit that next thug. So, the obvious thing here would be to compare Spider-Man's combat to Arkham's and... it kinda isn't. Or it's different enough. Spider-Man's combat revolves more around combos, aerial combat, and well timed dodges. There is no counter button, instead Spider-Man has a Perfect Dodge that shoots a web in the face of which ever enemy attacked him briefly stunning them. It's also pretty great that a smart Spider-Player can end even the toughest fights after a few seconds with some well timed gadgets.

Traversal is loads of fun once you get it down. Once again, Insomniac gets the fluidity of Spider-Man's movements just right. The way he swings, flips in the air, and web-zips looks beautiful. The kinks didn't appear for me until I tried to ace a Drone Challenge. Fuck those. While Spider-Man looks amazing while swinging around, he isn't exactly what I'd call precise. Which is fine, because that type of precision isn't necessary for anything but the drone challenges. (Once again, fuck those)

The story is pretty good all things considered. I have a few nitpicks about how certain characters, like Sable, act, but it's fine for the most part. The game gets Spider-Man/Peter Parker and the general vibe his life down pretty well. I'm happy with their depiction of MJ and Miles Morales, Aunt May is a treasure, and JJJ is probably the best damn character in the game. I loved the ending and the mid/post credits scenes (This is a Marvel property, after all)

All in all, Spider-Man is easily one of the best Super Hero games in existence, rivaling that of the Arkham Series. The game is also surprisingly short for an open world game, not that that's a bad thing. I've beaten it, and now I can move on to the DMC series to find out what all the fuss is about.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I have a few nitpicks about how certain characters, like Sable, act, but it's fine for the most part.

My complaint about her is that's she's completely pointless to the story. You don't even get a boss fight with her. They could've replaced her with some random henchmen and nothing would've been lost.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

I have a few nitpicks about how certain characters, like Sable, act, but it's fine for the most part.

My complaint about her is that's she's completely pointless to the story. You don't even get a boss fight with her. They could've replaced her with some random henchmen and nothing would've been lost.

Spoiler: slight end-game spoilers

It isn't even just that. Sable goes from "I want to kill you!" to begrudging co-operation. Fine. Her first priority is to protect Osborn and that'd be easier with the guy that can take out her army than without. But then, a short while later, she seems concerned for his life and that irked me. Why? Why do you care!?