*SPOILERS* Dragon Age 2 Discussion

[Dragonborne88]

First playthrough she came back witht he book and I one-on-one-ed the Arishok to keep her (by god that fight took a long time as a Rogue with no potions!)
Second playthrough I don't have quite the same relationship with her, she's hovering in the not-friend-not-rival limbo, which my friend tells me will have some horrible affect in the second Act.

Oh, and seconding the whole Orsino thing. I really liked that guy, but his stupid-ass decision at the end pissed me off.

Alright, yeah, she came back for me too. I dueled him with a Mage. Queue 15 minutes of me running in circles, hitting him with Soul Blast, 2 basic attacks, then running some more. It was terrible. I should have just attacked him with my party. Didn't help that ANYTHING he did to me knocked me down, so if I was hit once, he'd just chain attack me and keep me pinned the whole fight. Need to screw her over next playthrough and see what happens.

And yeah, you need the Prince DLC to see Leliana appear. Her appearance was REALLY well done in the quest though. She proved why she is an awesome character, and she doesn't look gross in this one!

 

[ShadowsofHope]

..My only regret in that game is apparently missing the side quest that Leliana appears in,

You need the Burning Prince-DLC to meet Leliana i think. Without it she only has a short cameo in the Epilogue.

I didn't get to the Prince DLC in my first playthrough (I accidentally skipped the beginning mission of that line), so that is likely why. I know about her appearance in the Epilogue, having completed one playthrough already.

Whilst I sided with the mages I cannot understand my you would sympathise with them as you only need to sneeze and they become a blood mage which makes me think that the templars have a point.

To be fair, most of those mages turned to blood magic out of desperation to escape the tyrannical arm of the Templars, whom mostly treated mages as subhuman creatures that needed to be locked up from the rest of society (in Meredith's own words), simply for the fact of being able to cast magic. The hatred and anger towards society and the Templars in combination with that desperation was the catalyst towards turning most of the escaped mages into either sociopathic blood mages, or abominations in the end. As well, the premises of blood magic in the Dragon Age universe is no more dangerous than any other spell line you might pick up. It's only when you combine that blood magic with demons or your own mental instabilities that really makes blood magic so taboo in the eyes of the Dragon Age universe.

So while it may seem the Templar's have a point, that "point" is really only the consequences of the Templar's own treatment of the mages in which they keep pent up in the Circles, for fear of any potential use of magic without the Templar's direct admission of it's use, regardless of the intent or purposes that magic is being cast for.

 

[Ailia]

Alright, yeah, she came back for me too. I dueled him with a Mage. Queue 15 minutes of me running in circles, hitting him with Soul Blast, 2 basic attacks, then running some more. It was terrible. I should have just attacked him with my party. Didn't help that ANYTHING he did to me knocked me down, so if I was hit once, he'd just chain attack me and keep me pinned the whole fight. Need to screw her over next playthrough and see what happens.

And yeah, you need the Prince DLC to see Leliana appear. Her appearance was REALLY well done in the quest though. She proved why she is an awesome character, and she doesn't look gross in this one!

I took me about an hour total; I died a few times, resigned myself to hit-and-runs, and the fight where I won took half-an-hour. I only had 7 health potions and even less stamina (I hadn't bothered to craft any yet) so I have only myself to blame. I used my dog a lot; ran around until the Arishok gave up on me and started attacking it, then coming in with Twin Fangs.
Still, I never want to do that fight as a Rogue ever again D8

 

[Dragonborne88]

[quote "ShadowsofHope"]So while it may seem the Templar's have a point, that "point" is really only the consequences of the Templar's own treatment of the mages in which they keep pent up in the Circles, for fear of any potential use of magic without the Templar's direct admission of it's use, regardless of the intent or purposes that magic is being cast for. [/quote]

Well, in the first game, I supported the Mages wholeheartedly. In this one, the Templars kind of have a point. Even before Meridith goes nuts and starts keeping the Mages in cages, there seem to be a quite large amount of Malificarum. Like, way more then the first game combined.

 

[Zarmi]

Completed it fully, and I was underwhelmed, honestly. It really is a downgrade from DA:O, in my opinion.. And waaay too much tireless grinding in the first Act. And from my experience, the Warrior if specced properly, is the biggest powerhouse in terms of damage, funny enough when using Sword n' shield. Twohander deals next to no damage compared to THE real spec.

Overall, disappointed and got bored. Story was also nothing to write home about, although I did really enjoy the Chantry destruction.

 

[Vetala]

For everyone complaining about Orsino turning to blood magic coming out of left field, you're missing a pair of subtle details.

Quentin, the white lily killer, has a note marveling at his 'research' and it's simply signed - O. Orsino also mentions something to the effect of "Quentin was right" before he changes. This points to at least some passing interest in blood magic.

I imagine this was done to write both Orsino and Meredith out of the situation, further destabilizing the situation and simply to remove them both from the story for the next iteration. I also saw this as a further means to muddy your decision. Meredith wants to kill every mage, which in this play through included my sister, but Orsino could have put a stop to the murders and you mother would never have gotten killed.

yes i notice that, a bit late actually. when orsino said something about quentin before he used blood magic i didn't put much into that until about 5 minutes into battle when i realized that he played a part in my mother death, i was so shocked about that i didn't even notice half my party was dead .

 

[Cavouku]

Like everyone else, apparently, the flaws are noticeable, but not entirely breaking.

I feel the only thing that Bioware did wrong was rush things. I honestly wasn't ready for it to come out myself, I still don't have Witch's Hunt, Leliana's Song or Darkspawn Chronicles for the first game, and I wanted to do some sort of perfect-as-I-can playthrough with that, and import it to this game. I have to wait until the end of the month before I can spend my money on what I want (payments to make to Young Driver's classes).

Other than that, I'm loving it so much I can't finish it, it's hard. I keep restarting midway through act 2. I'm gonna play it safe this round, save every chance I can.

(I'm not worried about the spoilers here. Sounds like fun)

Going Rogue right now, but after that, I have to do mage. I don't know what happened, but mages are now awesome fun to play as. I didn't like being one much in the first game, but now, holy snipes! It's probably because the fighting is a little more animated. It's what convinced two of my friends to play this, despite not enjoying the first game.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

[quote "ShadowsofHope"]So while it may seem the Templar's have a point, that "point" is really only the consequences of the Templar's own treatment of the mages in which they keep pent up in the Circles, for fear of any potential use of magic without the Templar's direct admission of it's use, regardless of the intent or purposes that magic is being cast for.

Well, in the first game, I supported the Mages wholeheartedly. In this one, the Templars kind of have a point. Even before Meridith goes nuts and starts keeping the Mages in cages, there seem to be a quite large amount of Malificarum. Like, way more then the first game combined.[/quote]
Yeah, I didn't like how Blood Magic was retconned from Origins. It is no longer a mysterious magic that takes time to learn to wield. Now it seems like something any mage can whip out a knife and do. I'm siding with the Templars next playthrough.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

[quote "ShadowsofHope"]So while it may seem the Templar's have a point, that "point" is really only the consequences of the Templar's own treatment of the mages in which they keep pent up in the Circles, for fear of any potential use of magic without the Templar's direct admission of it's use, regardless of the intent or purposes that magic is being cast for.

Well, in the first game, I supported the Mages wholeheartedly. In this one, the Templars kind of have a point. Even before Meridith goes nuts and starts keeping the Mages in cages, there seem to be a quite large amount of Malificarum. Like, way more then the first game combined.[/quote] Even at the beginning of the first chapter in Dragon Age 2, the soldier blocking the crowd from entering Kirkwall tells you that instead of workforce slaves the Tevinter Imperium had locked away in the Gallows, the Templars now have their mages locked up in there instead, as to control them. So, Meredith had mages in cages even before Hawke came to Kirkwall, by this implication.

Also, there is a lot more of the former Tevinter Imperium in Kirkwall as well, than there was in Ferelden during the events of Dragon Age: Origins. And, from their evident history, the Tevinter Imperium was basically the Magocracy version of the Chantry, except they worshiped a "Black" (Evil) Maker instead. The mages that escaped the Templar's Circle during the game were just average, desperate apostates that were in fear of being hunted down like wild animals (although the psychotic elven blood mage and the female abomination in the second act were obvious exception to this). Most of the maleficarum you encounter in Dragon Age 2 are infact fringe Tevinter apostates.

 

[Yossarian1507]

DA: O was a huge disappointment for me. The plot was lame, plot twists predictable, characters forgettable (except from Morrigan and Zevran), Ferelden dull and combat was slow and terribly easy (ok, that last one because I accidentally went for the most power-gamer squad, and invested in Cone of Cold and Kinetic Prison ASAP which pretty much won me every battle without breaking a sweat). I regretted every of my 200 zloty (about 65$) I paid for it. I wasn't planning to buy DA II, but favorable review at the Escapist, promise that my choices will matter, and my friends opinion changed my mind.

And you know what? I actually liked it much more. It's still far from perfect (the main storyline is still pretty weak plus see below), but the combat changed for better (especially combat animations), side quest were engaging, Alpha Protocol-like friend-rival system was heaven to hell system of approval-disapproval, characters were more interesting (congrats to Arishok for being the first leader of the opposite side in the history of this franchise, who actually made good points during discussions), and it really seemed your choices mattered (Carver joining Templars, my romantic relationship with Isabella making her go back with the relic etc). So far so good.

That being said, the game completely fell apart in the third act. As a 'blood-magic is bad' goody-two-shoes mage, I hated Meredith from the start for being a mad 'anti-mage' zealot. But, since I actually met fine Templars like Sir Cullen or Sir Thrask, I actually said 'awesome' when I heard about some kind of 'overthrow Meredith and make templars work together with good mages' plan. And here's what happened next (my comments in italics):

Interrupting a meeting of the group.

omeone: Oh no! It's the Champion! He works with Meredith!
What?! No, I'm not. I clearly sided with the mages, and I dissed her on every possible occasion.

Later.

: Please Champion... You have to understand that Meredith is mad. Our cause is just.
I KNOW! I want to help you, you know?!
[H]awke: I agree with you.
: Good, then talk with our leaders on the Wounded Coast, before they'll kill your brother.
WHAT?!
[H]: What?
: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. We kidnapped Carver, so we could stop you from interfering us.
WHY?! My approval of mages couldn't be more vocal! How in Earth could you possibly think that I would want to stop you! You'r plan is good!

Later.

Sir [T]hrask: Oh, Champion. So good to see you. So, you want to join our cause.
[H]: Yeah.
[R]andom mage I saved in the first act: No! The Champion must die! The blood mage who made me do horrible things in the past was right all along!
*facepalm*
[H]: What?

And since Sir Thrask apparently died in the following battle, the plan died DESPITE me trying to save it with all my might. What the FUCK was that supposed to be?

Then, there's me siding with mages for good, and THIS happening

Also, the ending with Orsino is just plain bad. I'm defeating all the Templars... OMG, I NEED TO USE BLOODMAGIC TROLOLOLOL" Fuck you Orsino.

Bah! At least now it's time to kick Meredith's ass...

And at this point someone at Bioware apparently said 'Holy shit guys! We completely forgot about that Lyrium Idol from the first act that was supposed to be important. What should we do?' Then, someone else replies 'Hey, let's make it going to Meredith so she can make a freaking huge magical sword, that also makes her MORE crazy'. The only writer at BW who seemed to be concerned expressed his doubt 'Wait... Isn't Meredith mad enough? And doesn't she despise all of the magic? Why would she want wield a sword made from pure magic'? Unfortunately, the rest replied 'STFU, we have no other ideas, let's do it!'

Argh.

The ending failed as well. 'Yeah's there's gonna be a third game for sure, but we don't want you to get interested so we don't even mention what kind of Dark Times are coming'.

Such a terrible finish for such a fine game. Shame.

Here's hope that DA III will follow the trend and finally become a game worth of all the praise it gets from the reviews.

 

[Dragonborne88]

Like everyone else, apparently, the flaws are noticeable, but not entirely breaking.

I feel the only thing that Bioware did wrong was rush things. I honestly wasn't ready for it to come out myself, I still don't have Witch's Hunt, Leliana's Song or Darkspawn Chronicles for the first game, and I wanted to do some sort of perfect-as-I-can playthrough with that, and import it to this game. I have to wait until the end of the month before I can spend my money on what I want (payments to make to Young Driver's classes).

Other than that, I'm loving it so much I can't finish it, it's hard. I keep restarting midway through act 2. I'm gonna play it safe this round, save every chance I can.

(I'm not worried about the spoilers here. Sounds like fun)

Going Rogue right now, but after that, I have to do mage. I don't know what happened, but mages are now awesome fun to play as. I didn't like being one much in the first game, but now, holy snipes! It's probably because the fighting is a little more animated. It's what convinced two of my friends to play this, despite not enjoying the first game.

If you want pure story, I'd say you could pass on Darkspawn Chronicles 100%. Leliana's Song isn't bad, but doesn't affect anything in the main game, as it's a far prequel, and actually kinda clashes with the stories Leliana tells you in the game about her past. Witch's Hunt is pretty good though, and directly changes Awakening and future games...possibly.

Rogues are pretty awesome, and I always like Mages, but they seem a bit more awesome in this one. I love Orsino during Chapter 2 if you make him get rid of the Qunari. Spirit and Blood Mage combination can get pretty messy, and tends to leave lots of giblets laying around after the fight. Even Spirit Healer is fun in this one (which is my Secondary), more active since I have to stand near the people taking damage, and actively avoid attacks.

 

[darth.pixie]

I want to see how the story changes if your Brother joins the Templar, to be honest. I like the fact he's a Gray Warden, but I wonder if he goes stir crazy as well, or actually becomes a voice of reason. If any of you guys actually had him join the Templar, lemme know how it went!

Spoiler

He doesn't go stir crazy. He asked "Do you want to kill your brother?" to which I replayed if he wanted to kill me. Meredith puts him in check. Then when she goes bonkers he says he's not going to hurt his sister and attacks her. It was pretty awesome.

 

[Ailia]

For everyone complaining about Orsino turning to blood magic coming out of left field, you're missing a pair of subtle details.

Quentin, the white lily killer, has a note marveling at his 'research' and it's simply signed - O. Orsino also mentions something to the effect of "Quentin was right" before he changes. This points to at least some passing interest in blood magic.

I imagine this was done to write both Orsino and Meredith out of the situation, further destabilizing the situation and simply to remove them both from the story for the next iteration. I also saw this as a further means to muddy your decision. Meredith wants to kill every mage, which in this play through included my sister, but Orsino could have put a stop to the murders and you mother would never have gotten killed.

yes i notice that, a bit late actually. when orsino said something about quentin before he used blood magic i didn't put much into that until about 5 minutes into battle when i realized that he played a part in my mother death, i was so shocked about that i didn't even notice half my party was dead .

Wh-wh... I hadn't noticed this. Oh my. I'd noticed Orsino's research comment but it didn't click. I... huh. Bastard.

I just back to the Fade quest (saving Feynriel)... is there no good way for this thing to end? No matter who I bring in there everything seems to go wrong. (Fenris royally pissed me off; he one-shotted Anders who was standing right behind him and then Scythed me before I realised he was trying to kill me.... and then went on to blame me for bringing him to the Fade in the first place.)

 

[bootz]

I've played through it as a mage. The city and caves that had the same layout got boring after mid act 2. I told a couple of my friends that I think Orgrimmar in Wow was bigger than Kirkwall. I missed Fenric because I skipped one quest. Some items required a lot of willpower to use.

When Alistair arrived I thought to myself how I miss killing darkspawn. The repeative nature of the game was voiced by my sarcastic mage "OH no not again". I ended up married to merril even when she was a full rival to me. Those are my gripes.

I will play through again probably. I love the new combat it felt more fluid. I love the saractic dialogue trees. They were really funny and I wasn't expecting that. I liked the overall story it wasn't perfect but still good. The characters were awesome. I really liked Isabella and the fact you can change her by your actions. "I like big boats and I cannot lie"

 

[Ailia]

When Alistair arrived I thought to myself how I miss killing darkspawn. The repeative nature of the game was voiced by my sarcastic mage "OH no not again". I ended up married to merril even when she was a full rival to me. Those are my gripes.

The Rivalry doesn't men they hate you - it just means that they respect you while not liking your decisions. The rival-mances are a lot more intersting than the friend-mances in my opinion.

 

[[Gavo]]

I liked it, it definitely lacked the epic scale of the original game (defeating a great evil, being able to go to more than 3 areas) was nice, but this one had its own charm.

The story is well-written, although they go for the BLOOD MAGES ARE EVIL HURRR card way too often.

As a side note, I romanced both Merrill and Isabella, but completed the romance with Merrill in the end, but in the epilogue, when Varric is talking about who stayed with the Champion, he said both Merrill and Isabella. Did anyone else get this?

 

[Ailia]

]As a side note, I romanced both Merrill and Isabella, but completed the romance with Merrill in the end, but in the epilogue, when Varric is talking about who stayed with the Champion, he said both Merrill and Isabella. Did anyone else get this?

Haha I slept with Isabela once but romanced Anders and Varric said that Isabela stayed with me (despite, y'know, promising Anders I'd stay with him). Don't know if it was a bug or on purpose but that kind of ruined my endgame.

 

[tstilwell]

The game itself was good (the mechanics, the combat, the dialogue system, the equipment) but I have to be honest that I was really disappointed in the story. This is a Bioware game! This company has been legendary for producing games with some technical flaws but, but despite of that, blow your doors off with an incredibly engaging story. I just did not feel it with this title. There was no gravitas. There was no heroic moment like you see in the Mass Effect series or the original KOTOR. There really was no overriding plot device to channel our efforts against. Yes, the theme ultimately was the conflict between the Chantry, the Templars, and the Circle of Magi; but I had difficulty figuring that out until close to the end. Hints of the conflict were there, yes, but hints on the conflict were in Dragon Age: Origins too and it did not play a huge plot point.

I play Bioware games (ironically, my favorite game company) to be engaged in an award-winning story. To feel the emotional connection to the characters, the world, and the situation that the characters face. I am sorry, but in this case, Bioware really let me down.

 

[Etherlad]

I just back to the Fade quest (saving Feynriel)... is there no good way for this thing to end? No matter who I bring in there everything seems to go wrong. (Fenris royally pissed me off; he one-shotted Anders who was standing right behind him and then Scythed me before I realised he was trying to kill me.... and then went on to blame me for bringing him to the Fade in the first place.)

The people i took with me where Anders (because i figured a guy possesed by a ghost could be helpfull), Merrill (same reason) and Fenris (because he's kinda magic). The only person who betrayed me was Merrill though, although she just left and didn't attack me.
Then i told Feynriel to go to the Dalish and ask for help and way, waaaaay later he send me a letter that he went for Tevinter and is apparently pretty happy now because the Mages there are experienced enough to help a Dreamer deal with his powers so all is well.

I guess it depends on scale of Friendship/Rivalry if your party leaves/betrays you in the Fade or not.

 

[Yossarian1507]

Also, I'm curious - what will happen if you won't help Anders with his final request? Can you take the third option in that case?