Square Enix Wants FF XIII-2 To Address All the Problems With the Original
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1 - Nobody likes minigames
2 - Nobody likes quick-time events, least of all the types of gamers who play JRPGs.
3 - It's still being directed by Motomu Toriyama, the asshat who thinks X is the best game in the series and who gave us X-2. It can't be that good unless Kitase is looking very carefully over his shoulder every step of the way.
2 - Nobody likes quick-time events, least of all the types of gamers who play JRPGs.
3 - It's still being directed by Motomu Toriyama, the asshat who thinks X is the best game in the series and who gave us X-2. It can't be that good unless Kitase is looking very carefully over his shoulder every step of the way.
And that.LE0Night said:
Now, I haven't played FF13, but I've seen a few cutscenes. Some of the, what I understand to be many, many cutscenes. So I have really only one- well, no... two, just two.
1. Will they be cutting down the cutscenes? I don't mind cutscenes as long as they follow these rules: They can't be longer than 5 minutes unless they're at the end of the game (no, not at the beginning, that's just painful), and they can't involve playable characters doing things I want to play. This happened with FF12, too. I really thought I could make a good effort in helping to fight that war going on in the initial cutscene, but... I wasn't allowed.
And FF10-2, I'm not sure why I couldn't go around, stealth-KO'ing the guards. I'm using Final Fantasy examples for reference. Makes things easier.
2. Please... just... make the characters more likable. You got them to almost look like humans... sorta... At least to the point where I get creeped right the fuck out if I see the mouth flap oddly, but we're still working through the kinks of characterization here. Lightning just came across as too much of a *****, Snow was full of pretentious cockiness, Vanille... Oh dear fuck, and Hope was the least capable human I've ever come across. Now, this is all opinion based on cutscenes, and one or two shots of gameplay, so maybe don't take it to heart, but...
Please keep in mind that telling us the character has a bad back story does not mean we will automatically sympathize with them. Fenris from DA2, for example; he was a slave, treated like shit for all of his known life, and tortured just to be an extra special slave. And he still came across as a whiny ponce, because we just had his word and backstory to go on.
A good way to help with the super serious characters is take the piss out of them a bit. They don't have to start acting like clowns, not at all, but have someone shove them into a fountain at some point, and watch their pissed-off reactions. Don't make idols, make people.
This may be the first Final Fantasy game I play through, if through some channels these words get heard. For the record, I'm liking Final Fantasy 9. I've played a bit of 6, 9, 10, 10-2 (well, barely the first four minutes of gameplay) 12 (hardly could say I "played" that one), and so far only 9 has appealed to me.
It's hard to say what they did differently with 9... I guess they made the characters comedic and appealing off the get-go, but maybe I'm just prejudiced towards games that start off dramatic and sad, and expect you to feel the same.
1. Will they be cutting down the cutscenes? I don't mind cutscenes as long as they follow these rules: They can't be longer than 5 minutes unless they're at the end of the game (no, not at the beginning, that's just painful), and they can't involve playable characters doing things I want to play. This happened with FF12, too. I really thought I could make a good effort in helping to fight that war going on in the initial cutscene, but... I wasn't allowed.
And FF10-2, I'm not sure why I couldn't go around, stealth-KO'ing the guards. I'm using Final Fantasy examples for reference. Makes things easier.
2. Please... just... make the characters more likable. You got them to almost look like humans... sorta... At least to the point where I get creeped right the fuck out if I see the mouth flap oddly, but we're still working through the kinks of characterization here. Lightning just came across as too much of a *****, Snow was full of pretentious cockiness, Vanille... Oh dear fuck, and Hope was the least capable human I've ever come across. Now, this is all opinion based on cutscenes, and one or two shots of gameplay, so maybe don't take it to heart, but...
Please keep in mind that telling us the character has a bad back story does not mean we will automatically sympathize with them. Fenris from DA2, for example; he was a slave, treated like shit for all of his known life, and tortured just to be an extra special slave. And he still came across as a whiny ponce, because we just had his word and backstory to go on.
A good way to help with the super serious characters is take the piss out of them a bit. They don't have to start acting like clowns, not at all, but have someone shove them into a fountain at some point, and watch their pissed-off reactions. Don't make idols, make people.
This may be the first Final Fantasy game I play through, if through some channels these words get heard. For the record, I'm liking Final Fantasy 9. I've played a bit of 6, 9, 10, 10-2 (well, barely the first four minutes of gameplay) 12 (hardly could say I "played" that one), and so far only 9 has appealed to me.
It's hard to say what they did differently with 9... I guess they made the characters comedic and appealing off the get-go, but maybe I'm just prejudiced towards games that start off dramatic and sad, and expect you to feel the same.
My exact thoughts. When I saw the article I immediately imagined them destroying the whole game and forgetting all about it. Killing FFXIII with fire is the ONLY way to address its problems. Sorry Square, Blitzball is not going to save your game.Scrumpmonkey said:
Explain to me how that's even remotely possible in battle system like FFXIII's? Of course you control one character! You have up to five abilities to cram into the ATB in a short time limit! The battles are supposed to be fast-paced, not "Select Attack" for every single character anymore. People bitched about that mechanic in past games.. So now people want to ***** about it BEING BETTER!?YunikoYokai5 said:
That said, I agree with the party member dying = game over thing. FFXII made it possible for others to Raise/Phoenix Down you, should be featured in XIII as well. But other than that..
Well, it may have had some help since it was the only RPG from a high profile company on the PS2 at the time, if I remember. I bought the system and the game and after playing it for a bit, went back to my good ol' Gran Turismo 2 and played that until more games came out for the system.BrotherRool said:
As well, quoting popularity contest listings as being proof of "best ever" (whatever rank) doesn't really say much. That's more of a snapshot of what is available at the time. I choose to hold the opinions of what my friends think of the games higher than people I don't know trying to get a few page hits. Just because McDonalds and Walmart are "popular" doesn't make them "good".
I do agree with your first point in that the series likes to change a lot, but if you look at VIII-onward the changes are more pronounced, and varied from game to game. VII was simply an asthetic change, from the sprites to polygons and aside from the story being worse than the previous incarnations (only my opinion), it mainstreamed the series, and cemented in Square's mind that people must want cutscenes and over the top anime-style flash with no substance. And since then, that's what we have been getting, barring XII, which stands out like a sore thumb as being a good game in the glut of other modern Final Fantasies (Maybe because it wasn't created by the same team, but rather the minds behind Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story if I remember correctly).
Myself, mini-games are not what is needed to make a "better" XIII. How about a better story, coupled with less cutscenes, better characters, a new world which is more open to exploring and a much better battle system. Hmmm. I guess what I want is a new damned game, completely unrelated to the previous. Funny that.
I'm waiting for sprites to come back in some form. I know I'll be waiting forever, but maybe, just maybe with their return, less emphasis will be put on "OMG! Amazing shiney graphics! With big boobies!" and more emphasis will be put on the world, characters and game itself. Hopefully an independant company will make this happen. Until then, I will eagerly play Square's old titles on my PSP. Hopefully they will release VI without screwing with it too much...
I liked that, it meant the game was balanced around keeping everyone alive, and not with how fast you can chug out the phoenix downs for bosses. Though, t'was one of only a few things I liked. I thought the combat was fine, but implementing an auto-attack was a bad move.MattAn24 said:
If they get rid of Hope, I'll maybe have a look at it.
By far my number 1 complaint. Honestly if they make the combat better I'll be on board. But to this day FF13 is the only FF that I have played that I didn't finish. And I even got to Gran Pulse. Not that it really matters but I loved FFX-2.YunikoYokai5 said:
I agree on the Hope... Thing. I *hate* the character, but he's a fucking awesome Medic/Synergist. If only he'd GET AWAY FROM THE FUCKING SENTINEL WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO GUARD! >.<Richardplex said:
But yes, absolutely agree! I'll take "Not having to stock up on so many Phoenix Downs, etc" over "Having a few in stock and only needing them when you REALLY need them"
It's a step forward. Not backward. The retro games were fun, but it's time people got the fuck over it and moved on. People bitched about the slow tun-based battles in the old games, it's faster now "OH GOD WE WANT TURN-BASED" again.. Fucking make up your mind!
Really? Is that why I see a rather large community of people who actually enjoyed FFXIII?Xzi said:
As BrotherRool said;
To put it simply, if the game isn't for you, IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT FOR YOU. Stop complaining and move on! Quit bitching about a game you don't even care about! Just let people have THEIR games and YOU have YOURS. That simple.BrotherRool said:
Same here, as if the others would just give up and die if their leader died. No they'd fight back harder in a hope to avenge their fallen comrade!YunikoYokai5 said:
Care to show me that community? Every single one of my gaming friends and collegues HATED FF XIII so I agree with Xzi.MattAn24 said:
Square-enix listen you can keep the gameplay the way it is. Hell the story can stay average. Just please give me good characters and male characters that DONT look like little girls.
This whole thing about the characters needing to be "better" is a really bad way of putting it. In fact, I think the characters are some of the best Final Fantasy as produced: more flawed, less clichéd and they where varied and interesting. However, they don't get likeable quickly enough. I didn't start to like most of the characters until way into the game and I had only pushed on because I liked the battle system enough to keep playing, most people would have left the game 15 hours ago.Lord_Jaroh said:
As for the cutscenes, yes there where a lot but I don't think there where too many but a lot of the cutscenes had nothing happen. It's nice to have character centric scenes but the characters need to be likeable already. In a way, the game needed to start earlier. Introduce all the characters before the crisis and have them appear more likeable and much less moody (I'm looking at you Hope) and some less happy (Snow, shut up. Now.). Make it so we get to know them a bit and then let the shit hit the fan. First impressions are very important and a lot of the characters are first just appeared annoying or too serious at first which meant when they lightened up a bit it was too late and all we could think about was them brooding and being moody in the beginning.
To achieve this they're gonna need better English script. Whilst I'm sure 13 had a very good translation, better then a lot of the games, it was very apparent it had been translated from another language. It was stilted and unnatural and sometimes just annoying. Snow screaming about being a hero may be something that's liked by Japan (I don't know, I haven't actually read or seen a lot of Japanese stuff) but in the west it's just annoying. We don't need reminding every minute that they're heroes. We know. Throwing in some slang we use doesn't work. In fact, it just comes of cringy. The final scene in the game is really nice and made me feel really happy that the characters had succeeded until someone utters "congrats". It was so cringy. Completely ruined the moment for me.
Also, the story needs to be ambiguous but still coherent. Personally, I think VII achieved this the most. Look how many theories there are on the internet on the game. You need to be able to follow what the hell is going on but still be intrigued by the events and mysteries. I can't count how many people told me they just gave up on XIII's plot because they couldn't work out what L'Cie and Fal'cie and what they all meant. Complexity does not equal quality. At the end of the game you want your audience to be thinking "wow, that was a really great story, but what does this mean? I wanna play again and try and find out!".
The final thing I'm gonna mention isn't going to go down well with some fans of the older games but I'm gonna say it anyway. The script has not got worse. The script to XIII was just as solid as the script to IV. However, because IV didn't have voice acting you could read the characters anyway you want but with voice acting you can't. A character you read as "badass" might come across as "emo" when it is voice acted. To be honest, some of the characters VI come across just as mopey and unlikeable as some do in XIII if you read them a certain way, but they come across as determined and awesome if you read them another. XIII-2 just needs to work out how we want a character to come across. Emos are generally unlikeable unless you do them in a very certain way.
Anyway, thanks for reading all the way through, sorry for the essay!