Square failed epically in playtesting FF13
- Thread starter MatParker116
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I enjoy this greatly.
Person 1: We should test this and get feedback from a different audience. We really want that audience to like our game you know.
Person 2: But it's too late to change anything significant. What if they don't like what we show them?
Person 1: It's still important to get that information so we can ignore it later.
Person 3: Why don't we just not waste money with testing if we can't make any significant changes anyway?
Person 2: Then we wouldn't have done the testing!
Person 1: Remember we need this new audience to like our game.
Person 3:
Person 1: We should test this and get feedback from a different audience. We really want that audience to like our game you know.
Person 2: But it's too late to change anything significant. What if they don't like what we show them?
Person 1: It's still important to get that information so we can ignore it later.
Person 3: Why don't we just not waste money with testing if we can't make any significant changes anyway?
Person 2: Then we wouldn't have done the testing!
Person 1: Remember we need this new audience to like our game.
Person 3:
Linearity aside, my main roadblock in playing this game is based around the lack of hubs (towns/villages etc).
In the previous FFs, when you got to a town you got a small introductory cutscene which essentially let you know that the pace would slow down here and you wouldn't be getting random battles, then the rest of the party would disperse/meet you at the inn, leaving you free to explore, buy new gear etc. When you finally met up with the party again you'd get some exposition, depending on the town you'd get a boss-fight or two, then you'd be on your way, a good 1-2 hour gap of slower pacing which advances the plot.
If FFXIII is without these hub sections, how is the exposition handled? A greater number of between battle cutscenes? Mass Effect-esque background reports while you stroll down those supposedly quarter-mile corridors?
I have to say I play FFs for the story, not the gameplay, I really don't care what battle mechanics they use (though I prefer turn-based over whatever the hell XII was), so I need my exposition served up in a nice, agreeable manner.
Do we get that in FFXIII?
In the previous FFs, when you got to a town you got a small introductory cutscene which essentially let you know that the pace would slow down here and you wouldn't be getting random battles, then the rest of the party would disperse/meet you at the inn, leaving you free to explore, buy new gear etc. When you finally met up with the party again you'd get some exposition, depending on the town you'd get a boss-fight or two, then you'd be on your way, a good 1-2 hour gap of slower pacing which advances the plot.
If FFXIII is without these hub sections, how is the exposition handled? A greater number of between battle cutscenes? Mass Effect-esque background reports while you stroll down those supposedly quarter-mile corridors?
I have to say I play FFs for the story, not the gameplay, I really don't care what battle mechanics they use (though I prefer turn-based over whatever the hell XII was), so I need my exposition served up in a nice, agreeable manner.
Do we get that in FFXIII?
The game should have just ended after the airship battle. Everything interesting and unique about the story and characters had been flushed out at that point and there was nothing left except to be dragged around for 20 hours on Pulse doing nothing remotely interesting.
I wasn't a big fan of 13, I played it, I beat it, it was decently fun, but ultimately had no replay value at ALL and I traded the game in before I had made more than 1 Ultima weapon for the 3 main characters I wanted to use in combat. It was a really boring game to play as there was very little thought involved. I played until I got to a point where I could farm the "big turtles", then lost all interest in playing it.
I general feeling towards 13 is its the first game I've played where you can nearly beat the entire game doing nothing but holding UP and mashing down A (shifting only to heal). To me, it was a massive failure in RPGing, as it wasn't really an RPG at all, there was nothing "Role Play" about it, you walked forward, listened to people talk, mashed A through a battle and repeated.
7 and 9 remain my favorite Final Fantasies of all time, 13 is slightly above 10 on the bottom of the list.
I general feeling towards 13 is its the first game I've played where you can nearly beat the entire game doing nothing but holding UP and mashing down A (shifting only to heal). To me, it was a massive failure in RPGing, as it wasn't really an RPG at all, there was nothing "Role Play" about it, you walked forward, listened to people talk, mashed A through a battle and repeated.
7 and 9 remain my favorite Final Fantasies of all time, 13 is slightly above 10 on the bottom of the list.
My exact thoughts, I'm fed up of being a fan for a series that is only there to disappoint me. Bring back the original design ideas SE and then we can talk againJonesy911 said:
I used to respect Square. They were a prime studio for me, their videogames were brilliant and fantastically executed. When they joined Enix and formed Square Enix, I was hopeful as ever. They made Final Fantasy 12, which is a great game, and the Kingdom Hearts series is up there amongst the best crossovers of all time. So what happened? I am lost, and so is Square Enix.
So every game is QTE? I mean, isn't every game just waiting for the button to prompt you to do something?CrankyStorming said:
The only thing I found enjoyable in a game with some of the worst characters I have ever been introduced to was Lightning mentally, and physically abusing them. I forced myself to play through all the boring linear levels, suffering through the horrid dialogue, cutscenes, cheesy music, and Twilight-esque melodrama to get to where everyone claimed the "game gets good". Unfortunately once I got to that point all my patience was tapped, and I realized how much time I had wasted on a mediocre product.
Personally, I loved Final Fantasy XIII and if it wasn't for the fact you couldn't shift characters in combat, it would be my favourite of the series. The problem is people seemed to have gone in wanting a WRPG and then got pissed because its a JRPG. I went in expecting an excellent (if weird/confusing) story, linier gameplay and the oppotunity to grind xp till my eyes bled and thankfully thats EXACTLY what I got. The reason I didn't like XII was because it felt like they were trying to please the WRPG fans too much.
Re: Towns and Hubs, having them in would have been a bit weird considering your characters are wanted fugatives whos faces have been plastered everywhere, but I agree they used to be nice breaks and good markers for how you're doing.
To those who complain about the story and characters, I've never seen a problem except possibly a lack of patience. I fully understood what was going without ever resorting to the codex as everything got explained eventually. Also, it put you in the place of the characters. You start the game as someone on a train following a crazy ***** who just de-railed the thing without a clue about whats going on. This is exactly how Sazh is feeling at the time.
It also had some of the best characterization I've seen in a game as each character actually had something that has been lost to the mists of gaming time, a character arc. Each character started out fairly 2 dimentional but if you paid attention as the game went on, they all gain a lot of depth with future revelations explaining a lot about the characters. The best example of this is Vanielle.
This sort of story telling and character arcs are so rare in computer games that everyone is so surprised when they appear they ignore them because they don't think they can exist. Well, people keep bitching on about how games should be considered art, but when things that people cry out for come along they whine and moan about how it makes a game too boring or confusing. MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS!!!
Re: Towns and Hubs, having them in would have been a bit weird considering your characters are wanted fugatives whos faces have been plastered everywhere, but I agree they used to be nice breaks and good markers for how you're doing.
To those who complain about the story and characters, I've never seen a problem except possibly a lack of patience. I fully understood what was going without ever resorting to the codex as everything got explained eventually. Also, it put you in the place of the characters. You start the game as someone on a train following a crazy ***** who just de-railed the thing without a clue about whats going on. This is exactly how Sazh is feeling at the time.
It also had some of the best characterization I've seen in a game as each character actually had something that has been lost to the mists of gaming time, a character arc. Each character started out fairly 2 dimentional but if you paid attention as the game went on, they all gain a lot of depth with future revelations explaining a lot about the characters. The best example of this is Vanielle.
People have complained about how she is too bright and bubbly, but she's like this because she's trying too hard. Its just a front she's put on because she is both trying to cheer everyone up, while also trying to block/forget the memories she has of her best friend becoming Ragnarok and almost destroying Eden. The most telling scene for her is when she's on the road with Sazh and they bunk down for the night. Before she goes to sleep shes all jokey about how Sazh has too stay on his side of the line, but when he falls asleep, she crosses the line, cuddles up to him for security and cries herself to sleep.
This sort of story telling and character arcs are so rare in computer games that everyone is so surprised when they appear they ignore them because they don't think they can exist. Well, people keep bitching on about how games should be considered art, but when things that people cry out for come along they whine and moan about how it makes a game too boring or confusing. MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS!!!
To those calling for an end to the complaints:
I enjoy Final Fantasy. To varying degrees, I've found something to love about every game(including Mystic Quest, not including X2) they've put out in the past. When it comes down to it, I admit that I'm a huge Final Fantasy fanboy.
A fanboy crushed beneath a huge pile of steaming shit called Final Fantasy XIII.
I enjoy Final Fantasy. To varying degrees, I've found something to love about every game(including Mystic Quest, not including X2) they've put out in the past. When it comes down to it, I admit that I'm a huge Final Fantasy fanboy.
A fanboy crushed beneath a huge pile of steaming shit called Final Fantasy XIII.
Yes, but this is supposed to be turn-based combat. It's meant to weave a deeper thought process into the gameplay rather than just mashing X. In all the previous installments, it was completely reasonable to expect to get your attack strategy planned out(even if you do end up just using your highest level elemental magic all the time) before the enemies attacked. In this, everything happens at once, giving you no time to think, meaning your only option is to mindlessly hit auto-attack when the meter fills up, most real-time combat games give you more options.Veldt Falsetto said:
It isn't really turn based, no one takes turns, a better way to describe it would be active bar based combat and you don't have to use auto attack if you don't want to.CrankyStorming said:
You know, not enjoying a game isn't some sort of accomplishment to brag about. If you didn't have fun with the game, that's fine. But it's just weird to still want to go on and on and on about how you REALLY DIDN'T HAVE FUN with it more than 6 months after it was released, don't you think? I'm sure there's got to be some game that the haters had fun with, go talk about that, and we can stop this pointless arguing. That is what video games are about, you know? Being enjoyable?