Squeeze the sequel: good or bad?

[CheckD3]

While posting in the forums, I started to wonder, why do we get sequels sometimes? I haven't finished Bioshock, but from what I've gathered, it has an actual ending, correct? So why a sequel? And a game I realized squeezed out a sequel was God of War. Those who have finished it remember the narrative giving it an ending in which it gives you an ending with no real plot points untied. So when you start God of War II, you're contradicting the ending. Now, I'm glad that they did, because God of War II is a fantastic game, and from the demo and looks of God of War III, it looks to finish the series off with a bang, but that's off topic.

So God of War II is a squeezed sequel of the 1st, and ends with no clear ending, but to set up God of War III (no spoiler there, since we know it couldn't have finished the series with God of War III being announced at all). Ratchet and Clank ended pretty clearly, but the sequel starts off by explaining the afterwards fact.

Pretty much, do you think games should do one of the three.
1: Contradict itself for a sequel to a game that was well praised (God of War -> God of War II and Bioshock -> Bioshock 2 example)
2: Leave it open to the point of having a game following it for sure (God of War II -> God of War III and

Spoiler

Dante's Inferno

3: Tie the ends up but in a way that there's a reasonable way to pull a sequel out without a contradiction (Ratchet and Clank -> R&C: Going Commando)

Or do you agree with Yahtzee and think that there should be a ban on sequels and everything a new idea?

Also, a final note, with sequels, anyone else think that they should be able to remove numbers for the sake of originality. Such as Bioshock: Return to Rapture (instead of Bioshock 2), or God of War: End of an Era (instead of God of War:III...even though the artwork woks well for it) or something like that?

 

[Lost In The Void]

I think some sequels are OK. There has to be requirements though. It needs to improve on the original premise of the first game, maintain a good plot, improve gameplay and remove glitches. Fresh graphics should be something to be considered as well. Since most sequels can't follow this requirements its hard to justify pumping them out

 

[Sephychu]

Well, I think the answer to the question of pointless sequels is a pretty obvious one. It's the same reason we get those games in the first place, it's the lovely lovely concept of moolah. Money drives everything western society does, and without it, ideas to not get the go-ahead. I reckon that Bioshock 2 was conjured up by some prat who decided that his ages of awards and income weren't enough.

If the sequel is good in it's own right, then fine, why not? Still, however, I find that the gaming market these days is overclogged with sequels.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I was always a little pissed about God of War contradicting its end.

I mean, it explicitly says that Kratos remained the God of War up until our time.

Still, God of War 2 was amazing so I can't hate it.

 

[AlternatePFG]

It depends on how the game ends. If the game ends with all the plot points tied up, and there is no real potential for another compelling story, than I don't think they should make them. Some games on the other hand work best in sequel format. Like from the beginning Mass Effect was intended to be a trilogy, which is okay. But if you're reviving a game that already had a resolved ending, it kind of lessens the impact of said ending.

 

[Iwata]

I never got the hate for sequels. If I liked it the first time around, why wouldn't I want more? Overall, I've had a lot more pleasant experiences with sequels than unpleasant ones, so I stand vindicated.

 

[CheckD3]

But if you're reviving a game that already had a resolved ending, it kind of lessens the impact of said ending.

I agree, but only most of the time. As I've said, God of War pulls it off from 1 -> 2, and even though it contradicts it, we have no real ending since GoW 2 ends leading up to 3. So it's possible to see that ending continue.

If the sequel is good in it's own right, then fine, why not? Still, however, I find that the gaming market these days is overclogged with sequels.

Ah, but just because the original is good doesn't mean that a sequel can be good. People will love sequels just because of the name, but people who don't care about franchises can be upset. But I agree, there are a lot of sequels. Though I'm excited for the new Fallout, mostly because FO3 was fantastic. But from what I've read (here, actually), FO:NV starts differently, takes place in a new place, and also, it seems to just use the Fallout name to sell it, but overall is a new game. Plus, from what I've heard, Fallout games aren't really sequels in the re-occuring character way that KOTOR:Sith Lords was to the original KOTOR.

It needs to improve on the original premise of the first game, maintain a good plot, improve gameplay and remove glitches. Fresh graphics should be something to be considered as well. Since most sequels can't follow this requirements its hard to justify pumping them out

It seems like they can get the graphics and remove glitches, but the hardest thing for game designers to do seems to be is make a good plot. There are good examples out there, but overall, it seems to me that the best sequels use the framework from the first, such as (since I love using this game as an example), God of War. The 2nd game has our same, favorite brute Kratos still killing Greek mythology with each swing, but takes his previous conquest, and not only has a good reason for him to lose all his powers (though does anyone know what he did with Medussa's head? Also, did Artemis want her sword back? And did Hades give Kratos an experation date on all those souls he had at his power?), but took the plot in a new direction. Even the 3rd, while reoccuring from the ending of God of War II, still has new plots and new enemies and new everything.

 

[Meggiepants]

Well, I would hate to lose some of the games I have loved due to the lack of sequel, like GOW2. My suspicion is they didn't know how crazy popular that game might be when they made it.

I think I'm willing to overlook the crap sequels (I don't buy them if they sound pretty craptacular anyway) to keep the sequels that I did like that were squeezed out.

And I enjoyed Bioshock 2. Not as much as 1, mind you, but, it wasn't that bad.

 

[Trifixion]

I was always a little pissed about God of War contradicting its end.

I mean, it explicitly says that Kratos remained the God of War up until our time.

True. Not to mention there's this line exchange that should have happened in GOW:

Kratos: (in shock) "A Titan lives?"
Athena: "Cronos is the last."
Kratos: "Wait, what about Atlas? Didn't I chain him up a while ago, forcing him to hold up the pillars of Mount Olympus?"
Athena: "Okay, Cronos and Atlas are the last, but..."
Kratos: "What about Gaia?"
Athena: "She and the others are confined to Tartarus. We don't consider them to be 'alive,' as such."
Kratos: "Well, what about Typhon? He's not in Tartarus, he's just frozen into..."
Athena: "ALL RIGHT! Cronos is the last of the MOBILE Titans, okay? Are you happy now?"
Kratos: "Well...no, to put it bluntly. If I were happy, I wouldn't be doing all this stupid shit for you, now would I?"

Later on...

Kratos: "I have done what you've asked. Now take these memories away from me."
Athena: "No man, no god could ever forget what you have done."
Kratos: "Well, you couldn't ask Hades to just get me a cup of water from the Styx I could drink? Doesn't drinking water from the Styx remove all memories of your past life?"
Athena: *brief pause* "Well...umm..."
Kratos: "Never mind, I'll just get it myself the next time I get killed and have to battle my way out of there."

 

[Iwata]

I was always a little pissed about God of War contradicting its end.

I mean, it explicitly says that Kratos remained the God of War up until our time.

True. Not to mention there's this line exchange that should have happened in GOW:

Kratos: (in shock) "A Titan lives?"
Athena: "Cronos is the last."
Kratos: "Wait, what about Atlas? Didn't I chain him up a while ago, forcing him to hold up the pillars of Mount Olympus?"
Athena: "Okay, Cronos and Atlas are the last, but..."
Kratos: "What about Gaia?"
Athena: "She and the others are confined to Tartarus. We don't consider them to be 'alive,' as such."
Kratos: "Well, what about Typhon? He's not in Tartarus, he's just frozen into..."
Athena: "ALL RIGHT! Cronos is the last of the MOBILE Titans, okay? Are you happy now?"
Kratos: "Well...no, to put it bluntly. If I were happy, I wouldn't be doing all this stupid shit for you, now would I?"

Later on...

Kratos: "I have done what you've asked. Now take these memories away from me."
Athena: "No man, no god could ever forget what you have done."
Kratos: "Well, you couldn't ask Hades to just get me a cup of water from the Styx I could drink? Doesn't drinking water from the Styx remove all memories of your past life?"
Athena: *brief pause* "Well...umm..."
Kratos: "Never mind, I'll just get it myself the next time I get killed and have to battle my way out of there."

That was pretty damn funny!

 

[CheckD3]

Kratos: "I have done what you've asked. Now take these memories away from me."
Athena: "No man, no god could ever forget what you have done."
Kratos: "Well, you couldn't ask Hades to just get me a cup of water from the Styx I could drink? Doesn't drinking water from the Styx remove all memories of your past life?"
Athena: *brief pause* "Well...umm..."
Kratos: "Never mind, I'll just get it myself the next time I get killed and have to battle my way out of there."

I think that to get to Styx, he'd end up becoming actually dead, thus making him no longer Kratos, plus, it was lust for power that's his tragic flaw, so he while I'm sure he knows this, he gave his power before, and when he did that he found that he can't be. His memories taken mean that he'd lose not only his power, but any memory of his wife, and I think he just wants the crime gone, the nightmares, but by drinking it would make him no longer Kratos. Plus, as Gaia said, his destiny shakes the pillars of Olympus himself, the fates probably did that one.

Though anyone wonder why the fat fate didn't just cut his thread when he made it and killed her sisters?